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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28032780 - 11/04/22 03:34 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
This your proof?



Burden of proof always falls on the party making a claim.  So YOU'LL have to explain the evidence.  From the Crowdstrike CSO - "in this case, it appears it was set up to be exfiltrated, but we just don’t have the evidence that says it actually left."

And as far as blaming Russia he said “There are other nation-states that collect this type of intelligence for sure, but the — what we would call the tactics and techniques were consistent with what we’d seen associated with the Russian state.”  The same excuse US Intelligence used.

Quote:

Ray McGovern said:
As the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity has been reporting for more than three years, metadata and other hard forensic evidence indicate that the DNC emails were not hacked — by Russia or anyone else.

Rather, they were copied onto an external storage device (probably a thumb drive) by someone with access to DNC computers. Besides, any hack over the Internet would almost certainly have been discovered by the dragnet coverage of the National Security Agency and its cooperating foreign intelligence services.

“When analysts use words such as ‘we assess’ or ‘we judge,’ [these] are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact. … Assessments are based on collected information, which is often incomplete or fragmentary … High confidence in a judgment does not imply that the assessment is a fact or a certainty; such judgments might be wrong.” [And one might add that they commonly ARE wrong when analysts succumb to political pressure, as was the case with the ICA.]




There's a lot more in the article that casts doubt on the Crowd Strike conclusion, but again, burden of proof is the person making the claim, and maybe you can summarize the 'proof' because I missed it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28032792 - 11/04/22 03:44 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
Some real weak sauce there. Do you have a pertinent piece of information from Ray that would apply here? Or is it more confirmation bias from the guy that doesn't understand the internet.



Are you saying Ray McGovern, a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, doesn't know anything about the internet?

And as I just explained, just because you say I don't understand the internet, doesn't mean it's true.  How about if I call you a genius or stupid, would that make it true?  :flowstone:




Don't make an appeal to authority now.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28032806 - 11/04/22 03:51 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You don't seem to understand the difference between an "appeal to authority" and "appeal to expertise".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28032830 - 11/04/22 04:01 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

How is that old man an expert on the internet?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28032848 - 11/04/22 04:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Well let’s put it this way. There is crowdstrike that conducted an independent investigation using experts and professionals and they state they have proof. They even presented it to the public. Then there is you that doesn’t understand how the internet works and has proved it many times.

Who do we think we should trust? Your argument is basically “I am not an expert but [insert opinion here]”




This is a fallacious line of reasoning called an "appeal to authority". What is their proof? I don't just blindly follow anyone's opinion, whether or not they are "professionals". The American health organization still warns people not to eat foods, which are high in cholesterol, if they have high cholesterol levels, even though dietary cholesterol has been shown not to increase cholesterol levels for a very long time now. Professionals proliferate entrenched dogmatic falsehoods all the time. Chiropractic pseudoscience is still presented as a profession.

Anecdotally, I find Falcon's critical thinking and analytical skills to be quite sharp, and I don't know shit about crowdstrike. Falcon backs, or attempts to back everything he says with hard data. I really don't understand why he gets the kind of crap he gets around here. The only reason I can think of, is that people tend to hold their shitty positions on political issues quite dear, and would rather kill the messenger.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (11/04/22 04:17 PM)


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #28032858 - 11/04/22 04:17 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
You don't seem to understand the difference between an "appeal to authority" and "appeal to expertise".




Damn... you beat me to it! lol


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28032866 - 11/04/22 04:21 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

No, it isn't. Crowdstrike was hired to investigate the server incident as a third party and that is what they concluded. The FBI nor any other professional organization was able to refute their information, rather, it was backed up by several organizations. In fact, German security experts tracked the same malware in an attack on their infrastructure back to the same Russian servers.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera] * 1
    #28032879 - 11/04/22 04:29 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
No, it isn't. Crowdstrike was hired to investigate the server incident as a third party and that is what they concluded. The FBI nor any other professional organization was able to refute their information, rather, it was backed up by several organizations. In fact, German security experts tracked the same malware in an attack on their infrastructure back to the same Russian servers.




Ok, but what is their evidence? I'm not saying you're right or wrong, I honestly don't know. All of the evidence that I have seen about Russia rigging our election has been quite pathetic.

It's an appeal to authority when you say that their conclusion is correct, because it's what they (the authority) concluded, instead of saying their conclusion is correct, because they demonstrated it to be so using (insert evidence) to prove it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28032895 - 11/04/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

You all need to read up on cyber attribution and analytical confidence.

It must be awfully hard to make a judgement on assessments that have been made when you don't even understand how the language is being used in them.

:canthelpbutlaugh:


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28032900 - 11/04/22 04:41 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

LOL dude, you are so fucking dumb.  Appeal to authority fallacy has nothing to do with invoking ACTUAL AUTHORITIES :rofl2:


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #28032903 - 11/04/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
Some real weak sauce there. Do you have a pertinent piece of information from Ray that would apply here? Or is it more confirmation bias from the guy that doesn't understand the internet.



Are you saying Ray McGovern, a former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) officer, doesn't know anything about the internet?

And as I just explained, just because you say I don't understand the internet, doesn't mean it's true.  How about if I call you a genius or stupid, would that make it true?  :flowstone:




Who the fuck is ray McGovern? What does he have to do with the Russia investigation?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (11/04/22 04:43 PM)


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Invisiblemycosis
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods] * 1
    #28032908 - 11/04/22 04:45 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:


McGovern's post-retirement work includes commenting for Consortium News, RT, and Sputnik News, among other outlets, on intelligence and foreign policy issues.





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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9] * 1
    #28032920 - 11/04/22 04:52 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
LOL dude, you are so fucking dumb.  Appeal to authority fallacy has nothing to do with invoking ACTUAL AUTHORITIES :rofl2:




... No

Quote:

Definition
Appeal to Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam) logical fallacy and Argument from Authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) are the same form of of discussion argument in which person producing a claim referencing the opinion of an authority as evidence to support an argument. As a fallacy it’s included onto Red Herring Fallacies group.




--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28032937 - 11/04/22 05:04 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Ice9 said:
LOL dude, you are so fucking dumb.  Appeal to authority fallacy has nothing to do with invoking ACTUAL AUTHORITIES :rofl2:




... No

Quote:

Definition
Appeal to Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam) logical fallacy and Argument from Authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) are the same form of of discussion argument in which person producing a claim referencing the opinion of an authority as evidence to support an argument. As a fallacy it’s included onto Red Herring Fallacies group.





.

LOLOLOLOL

From the website you quoted
Appeal to Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam) logical fallacy and Argument from Authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) are the same form of of discussion argument in which person producing a claim referencing the opinion of an authority as evidence to support an argument. As a fallacy it’s included onto Red Herring Fallacies group.

This can be a fallacy if the referenced person does not have proper authority.


Emphasis mine.  So I see you lie by omission just like your budy Falcon.  Fucking loser


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28032939 - 11/04/22 05:06 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Does it hurt getting owned as hard I have owned you.  You fucking tool


--------------------
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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OnlineBigbadwooof
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9]
    #28032977 - 11/04/22 05:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
LOLOLOLOL

From the website you quoted
Appeal to Authority (argumentum ad verecundiam) logical fallacy and Argument from Authority (argumentum ab auctoritate) are the same form of of discussion argument in which person producing a claim referencing the opinion of an authority as evidence to support an argument. As a fallacy it’s included onto Red Herring Fallacies group.

This can be a fallacy if the referenced person does not have proper authority.


Emphasis mine.  So I see you lie by omission just like your budy Falcon.  Fucking loser





You know what?

You're right. Now shut the fuck up.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"There is no need for conspiracy where interests converge" - George Carlin
Every one of you should see this video.
"If you bombard the earth with photons for a while, it can emit a roadster" - Andrej Kerpathy


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OfflineIce9
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #28032979 - 11/04/22 05:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

:canthelpbutlaugh:
credit for admitting it though:thumbup:


Edited by Ice9 (11/04/22 05:23 PM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: mycosis]
    #28033135 - 11/04/22 06:47 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mycosis said:
Quote:


McGovern's post-retirement work includes commenting for Consortium News, RT, and Sputnik News, among other outlets, on intelligence and foreign policy issues.







Lol


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
    #28033228 - 11/04/22 07:36 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

I can’t even… lol x 2


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #28033304 - 11/04/22 08:21 PM (1 year, 2 months ago)

https://i.redd.it/a41q5e8ka0y91.jpg

I guess Elon Musk thinks free speech is when he says whatever the fuck he wants and other people have to just accept it and not change their behavior based on the stupid shit he spews.

(guess shroomery image button doesn't like this particular image)


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