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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#28027899 - 11/01/22 02:28 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: For those who proclaimed "we like censorship by private corporations because it shows we have free speech!", this looks like censorship is being done by the Government.
You still don't seem to understand the right to free expression if you think this implies a contradiction. The state forcing private entities to either publish or censor speech is a violation of free expression both ways.
___ ___ ___On the other hand, I'm not sure why you're seemingly so bothered by this, as it's exactly the type of censorship you've claimed to want. From the first article you linked: Quote:
[...]designed to police misinformation (false information spread unintentionally), disinformation (false information spread intentionally), and malinformation (factual information shared, typically out of context, with harmful intent) that allegedly threatens U.S. interests.
And this is an example of you explaining your position on state censorship:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: [...]I'm not against differing opinions, but I'm against intentionally fake news.
How do you determine if something is "intentionally fake"? The same way you determine if someone committed any other crime - through the court system.
So what exactly is your issue with the US state censoring intentionally fake news?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28028293 - 11/01/22 05:38 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: So what exactly is your issue with the US state censoring intentionally fake news?
I wouldn't mind if intentionally fake news was censored. But the news in question getting censored is truthful. [...]
It's a high bar. If I say we should suppress stories about the Hunter Biden laptop being real, then I am CLEARLY censoring news that is not intentionally fake. If there's any question, you don't censor it.
Are you the courts? Because, according to you, that's how we determine intentionally fake news vs truth.
Allow me to requote you explaining your position:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: How do you determine if something is "intentionally fake"? The same way you determine if someone committed any other crime - through the court system. Is the court system 100% perfect? No.
Maybe you will now understand my criticism of your position:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Well... that's your imperative, but empowering the state as arbiter of truth while simultaneously empowering the state to criminalize those who differ is a recipe for state repression and censorship.
Why do you consider this form of censorship a negative when practiced by the US state, but a positive when practiced by the Russian state?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28028368 - 11/01/22 06:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: My complaint is that the US is banning news that turns out to be truthful.
Any specific examples?
Keep in mind your prior-stated opinion on this matter:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I've explained it already, and also said it's something a court would decide. Does a court always get things right? No, not always, but should we get rid of court system for that reason?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28028408 - 11/01/22 06:29 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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That's a general list - "things like the efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines, racial justice, U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan, U.S. support to Ukraine, and Hunter Biden’s laptop" could refer to a multitude of truths and/or falsehoods.
What specific examples do you refer to?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28028911 - 11/02/22 03:00 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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How is that an example of "the US is banning news that turns out to be truthful"? Your post doesn't include the role played by the US state, nor does it present a court determination that would establish the banned content as truthful*.
*According to your previously stated thoughts on establishing truth.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28040838 - 11/08/22 06:34 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: Elon musk decides that impersonating Elon musk on Twitter is a permaban, even if you clearly label yourself a parody account.
Free speech!
Free speech, bro. He's bringing it back.
Maybe you guys don't understand the concept of 'verified accounts'? 
That's part of the Twitter TOS, correct? Except that, for example, Donald Trump was similarly banned for TOS violations, yet wasn't that considered an attack on free speech by you?
Just another one of your many inconsistent arguments of convenience.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera] 1
#28043432 - 11/10/22 09:52 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Yup.
"You're confusing freedom to voice one's opinion with a verified account, with censorship of content objectionable to Twitter."
This back-breaking conglomeration of words is even more hilarious when one considers that parody enjoys specific protections under law, whereas incitement to violence is one of the few forms of speech prohibited in the USA.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera]
#28043719 - 11/10/22 01:02 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You're confusing freedom to voice one's opinion with a verified account, with censorship of content objectionable to Twitter.
This back-breaking conglomeration of words is even more hilarious when one considers that parody enjoys specific protections under law, whereas incitement to violence is one of the few forms of speech prohibited in the USA.
Elon Musk is still censoring incitement to violence. And he's not censoring parody; you just can't pretend to be someone you're not.
His fight is to allow people freedom of expression; your fight seems to be to allow people to lie and deceive. 
Examples of clearly delineated parody accounts still being banned are present in this thread (I saw Kryptos mention h3h3h3) - but you continue to frame it as 'more freedom'. Whereas Donald Trump was banned for incitement to violence - but you continue to frame it as an example of the type of bad censorship that Elon Musk will end.
Christopera is absolutely correct to inquire about your back.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: chopstick] 3
#28066292 - 11/23/22 05:07 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said: I think this thread has more or less proven that leftists are choppy is fine with big tech censorship so long as it benefits them. They will find any excuse, any justification to explain it away as being okay.
Of course if it were the other way around, and twitter/facebook/reddit etc were dominated by conservatives going overboard on censoring leftist talking points, then suddenly they would find a problem with it.
To be clear, I'm neither surprised nor bothered by big tech censorship - it's just absolutely hilarious watching you and fal do complete 180s on all those lofty ideals you once pretended to have.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: chopstick] 1
#28066471 - 11/23/22 07:03 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I don't care about twitter, I'm just laughing at the sudden change in opinion from you, who once screamed from the rooftops: "They're fine with big tech censorship so long as it benefits them! They will find any excuse, any justification to explain it away as being okay!"
I have no morals, but I thought you did.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#28069111 - 11/25/22 04:19 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: It's weird how I've been fighting censorship for years, and everyone keeps telling me that private companies have a right to censor, and now when a private company is choosing to allow free speech, people are melting.
You got that backwards - people are laughing at your sudden pivot to defending censorship (see: Russian censorship laws; Twitter under Elon Musk) whenever you perceive the censorship in question as beneficial.
Go ahead and quote those melting posts you refer to - I know you certainly won't find any from me - but I can find numerous occasions where you argue in favour of courts determining legitimate speech or that impersonation is a ban worthy TOS violation, because the censorship in question suits you.
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Ice9] 1
#28072243 - 11/27/22 08:40 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I also got a laugh out of this part:
Quote:
These results do not support the widespread accusations of anti-conservative bias on the part of social media companies – although, of course, the results also do not disprove these accusations. Instead, they emphasize the near impossibility of determining whether observations of partisan asymmetries in enforcement are due to political bias by the platform or differential levels of problematic behavior by the users. Assuming that imbalanced enforce is due to partisan bias will stifle attempts to combat misinformation.
Says he's against misinformation, regardless of 'political sides' - but misrepresents a study in order to push his belief favouring a political side which, according to the same study, is a belief that negatively impacts honest attempts to combat misinformation.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: christopera]
#28072996 - 11/28/22 01:06 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Especially considering it's use, in instances like this, is in reference to some intangible and subjective notion.
Giving real 'they hate us for our freedoms' vibes. Could it possibly be that one of the richest men in the world isn't actually our free speech messiah? No! They just hate Twitter for offering more free speech.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: feevers]
#28078686 - 12/01/22 07:34 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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It's essentially a decentralized form of social media. Instead of a single corporation, Mastodon allows individual users to host a server, while allowing each server to still communicate with other servers on the Mastadon network.
One benefit: each server provides its own rules moderation, rather than one corporation making all those decisions. Each server is also able to decide which other servers it will communicate with - this means that the worse content can still be excluded (even if hosting its own server) if the community at large refuses to communicate with it. Gab, if any of you recall that cesspool, was technically on the Mastodon network but still excluded for all purposes. In my opinion, this is the best solution between corporate censorship and rampant hate speech.
One negative: this means it's not as simple as going to mastodon.com and signing up - you need to find a specific server or host your own. Pretty similar social media experience beyond that, though.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#28079335 - 12/02/22 09:42 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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When is that general amnesty supposed to occur? Elon said "next week" on November 24th - it's now eight days later and the big news today is that Kanye is banned from Twitter again, despite neither breaking the law or engaging in egregious spam (Elon's two explicitly stated exemptions).
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
#28079346 - 12/02/22 09:57 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah that's probably true, but goes to show how even Elon's 'reasonable' limits on free expression aren't reasonable when brought to an absolute. How does that standard hold up when countries often have conflicting notions of criminality and expression?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
#28079575 - 12/02/22 01:02 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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For sure; but free speech absolutism it's not.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Sulfurshelfsean]
#28079803 - 12/02/22 03:25 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Relevant:
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: Enlil]
#28079962 - 12/02/22 04:47 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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We don't have the absolute right to choose what speech we sponsor - Elon isn't free to sponsor certain prohibited forms of illegal content, for example. Besides - even if he could - 'free speech absolutism' is usually in reference to no restrictions on a societal level, rather than the individual level.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Turns out DHS IS working with private companies to censor speech! [Re: koods]
#28080812 - 12/03/22 06:38 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: There is very little content that could even be considered illegal. Child porn? Speech intended to defraud someone of property. What else is criminal?
Very little, correct, but the right is not absolute.
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