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InvisibleMushroomsee
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When can you open pressure cooker? * 1
    #28017539 - 10/26/22 12:45 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

After my bags are in the pressure cooker, how long do I have to wait before I can open the pressure cooker? Can I lighten the weight so the valve lets air out until the pressure has completely gone, then open?

Or do I have to wait until the pressure goes down naturally?

Sometimes when I have opened, the bags have become like vacuum packed. Is it good or bad?

Other times when I have opened, the bags have been filled with air and have been the opposite of vacuum packaging. What is preferable? Can bacteria etc. be sucked into the bags and ruin everything? Or is there no problem?

When is best to open?

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #28017549 - 10/26/22 12:49 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Its best to wait about 8 hours after PCing. That way, the PC is fully depressurized and your grain is at room temp and ready to use.


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Offlinematsc
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #28017558 - 10/26/22 12:53 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

At the very least, you want to wait for the temperature to drop below 100c/212f. If you don't, any liquid water in there will flash boil which can make some nasty messes.


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: matsc]
    #28017563 - 10/26/22 12:55 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
At the very least, you want to wait for the temperature to drop below 100c/212f. If you don't, any liquid water in there will flash boil which can make some nasty messes.



I don’t know enough about science but this sounds entirely wrong unless it’s something directly related to the water in bags?

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Offlinematsc
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Screwup]
    #28017566 - 10/26/22 12:59 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Under pressure, the boiling point of water increases. If you drop the pressure while the temp is still high, all that water is suddenly above its boiling point.

Much more of an issue when dealing with liquid material admittedly (agar, LC media, etc), but it's a good habit to get in to either way.


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: matsc]
    #28017573 - 10/26/22 01:06 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
Under pressure, the boiling point of water increases. If you drop the pressure while the temp is still high, all that water is suddenly above its boiling point.

Much more of an issue when dealing with liquid material admittedly (agar, LC media, etc), but it's a good habit to get in to either way.



Ah I thought you were referencing once the pressure dropped to wait for the temperature to go below that.

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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Screwup]
    #28017591 - 10/26/22 01:17 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Ah yes, I could see that interpretation, sorry about that :grin:

The interplay between temperature and pressure in complex mixtures like a PC is, well, complex. There could still be a few PSI on the dial even with the temp under 100C, but at that point you should be past the worst danger of boil-over.

Personally I just wait for the hissing to stop and don't touch the jiggler at all. My jars are still hot when removed.

Now this does hypothetically add some increased risk of contamination from draw-in during cooling, but I also get less condensation and puddling. Its never been much of an issue for me at the scales I work with, so I don't worry much about it.


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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #28017620 - 10/26/22 01:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Its best to wait about 8 hours after PCing. That way, the PC is fully depressurized and your grain is at room temp and ready to use.




I have more bags waiting to get into the PC. 8 hours is to long. What I am worried about is if air will be sucked into the bags and bring contamination if I open it to fast?

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #28017663 - 10/26/22 02:10 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

That is one issue yes. Also, where are you going to store your bags while they cool? If u take them out of the PC and let them sit, they can collect mold spores on the bags so storing them in a clean area as they cool is really important.

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InvisibleMushroomsee
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #28017682 - 10/26/22 02:29 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
That is one issue yes. Also, where are you going to store your bags while they cool? If u take them out of the PC and let them sit, they can collect mold spores on the bags so storing them in a clean area as they cool is really important.




On the outside of the bag does not matter I guess, because they have injection port where I inject spores?

I read alot about bags being vacuumed after PC. Doesnt the bag have to have air in it for the mycelium to grow and breath? Also, how will I shake the bags if they are vacuumed? It needs to be air in the bag for grains to have space to move around during a shake?

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OfflineBajazly
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #28017698 - 10/26/22 02:40 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

If they have SHIPs then why wouldn't you seal the bags before PCing? That being said you would need a filter patch on them for some FAE. And spores to grain is a crap shoot. If the bags weren't sealed then you could drop an agar wedge in and probably have much more success.

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OfflineTheUsualSuspect
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Mushroomsee] * 1
    #28017904 - 10/26/22 04:37 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I have more bags waiting to get into the PC. 8 hours is to long. What I am worried about is if air will be sucked into the bags and bring contamination if I open it to fast?




Yes if you open it when its hot it will suck in air into the bags including whatever contamination is in the air.

Even if you are waiting for it to totally cool down, you should be opening the pressure cooker in front of a flow hood, expanding the bag so its full of air and then heat sealing it, assuming you will be injecting liquid culture into the injection port. Yes the bag needs air into it, and not being vacuumed tight.

And as far as contamination goes, you should care if its in the bag, on the bag, outside of the room, down the hall or out on the sidewalk. If its possible to remove a source of contamination you should do it.

If you must do more bags quickly, get another pressure cooker.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: When can you open pressure cooker? [Re: Mushroomsee]
    #28018038 - 10/26/22 05:39 PM (2 years, 2 months ago)

Yes but its good practice to avoid possible vectors of infection. Having a good sterile process can help later if u start getting infections in your grains/grow bags.

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