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OnlineYoshiTrainer
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Registered: 04/30/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] * 2
    #28016867 - 10/25/22 11:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Well my question in the last 8 pages has mostly been about the effects that "potentiate" w/e alkaloids but as I said I am also interested in how solubility is affected.

So my question to you is do you believe the acid is necessary, or helpful, or w/e adjective you want to use?

As far as Egon_Spengler and I got, it kinda seems like acids would hinder water's ability to dissolve alkaloids.

My original reasoning had to do with the fact that psilocybin acts like a polar molecule which is why it has such great solubility in water but acids are also mostly polar. Question is do the charges match or not?

Egon pointed out that acids and bases in water will help the other dissolve but hinder another of the same, as well that alkaloids tend to appear in fungi and plants as an acid salt of the compound.




To "potentiate" the amount of alkaloids, various grains or additives have been talked about in addition to selective cloning for strength. To make it feel stronger, acidic extraction, fasting or taking MAOI seems to help. As for increasing the alkaloid content of dried mush, not sure that can be done.

Using acid for extractions seemes easier and possibly more efficient? The trade off is in the trip, acid extraction creates a trip with a sharp thin bell curve. Quick come on, fast trip. W/out acid, the trip has a longer flatter curve, longer but less intense.

Some pretty cool info here

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/psilocin

Among other things.

"Methanol was also used in a single extraction step by other investigators who concluded it to be the best for analysis of psilocybin from mushrooms [49]. They also used aqueous alcohol which increased the amount of psilocin recovered from the plant material. This was ultimately discovered to be an anomalous result from the degradation of psilocybin to psilocin. Use of dilute acetic acid solutions was found to be better for this recovery without the degradation problem."

Pubchem had some good info too

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Psilocybine

"In vivo, psilocybine is rapidly dephosphorylated into the active compound psilocin, which activates serotonin 2A (5-HT2A) receptors in the central nervous system (CNS), mimicking the effects of serotonin."

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InvisibleAphexPin
Strange

Registered: 02/22/22
Posts: 464
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: YoshiTrainer] * 3
    #28016871 - 10/25/22 11:02 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

A pizza peel is an amazing tool for removing substrate from linerless 66qt tubs. Gives me the ease of removal that liners do without the fuss of preparing and a liner.

Edited by AphexPin (10/25/22 11:07 PM)

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OfflinePsatellite
πŸ‹ + πŸ„ = πŸ‘½
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Registered: 08/25/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: AphexPin]
    #28016878 - 10/25/22 11:07 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Some people are using citric acid for a salt to base extraction.

https://bluelight.org/xf/threads/citric-acid-and-mushrooms.322052/

"It is, however, true that mixing a juice containing citric acid (lemon juice, orange juice) may help extract the alkaloids from other drugs such as psychedelic mushrooms, or san pedro cactus (desert cucumber). When making mushroom tea, the addition of citric acid will help make the psilocybin a salt (psilocybin citrate). Salt forms of alkaloids are more soluble in water."

Common knowledge that chloroform is the best...

I might do this extraction. It seems pretty simple. Close to DMT stb extraction

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=69480&p=11
"- Extract with denatured alcohol from the hardware store (~50/50 ethanol/methanol). I soaked the mushrooms for 12 hours."

Edited by Psatellite (10/25/22 11:24 PM)

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Offlinethekushranger
Kushy
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Registered: 10/24/22
Posts: 13
Loc: Standing on the dirt.
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096]
    #28016906 - 10/25/22 11:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Yes mate, I'm very new to forums etc and not a very social person , apologies for any confusion. We have gold tops but not the season and police monitor paddocks as do owners of land, can't count the amount of times I've been chased off or videoed lol


--------------------
Change the way you look at things and the things you look at will change.

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OfflineAdas
Lonely Dreamer
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #28016994 - 10/26/22 03:17 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

YoshiTrainer said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Ah, I see it now. I skipped over the labeling section and also misread your first comment so I was scanning for citric not acetic. Selective dislexya strikes again.

So basically they just used it in the "tea" they made?

I was talking about how acids affect water's ability to dissolve psilocybin, just last week with Egon. We didn't really get anywhere concrete though.




No problem, I enjoy good conversations. Yes, essentially acidic tea evaporated to a residue that they dissolved w/MeOH. I made a subtropicalis extract using citric acid, evaporated to a goo then used a friend's moonshine. :smile:



Well my question in the last 8 pages has mostly been about the effects that "potentiate" w/e alkaloids but as I said I am also interested in how solubility is affected.

So my question to you is do you believe the acid is necessary, or helpful, or w/e adjective you want to use?

As far as Egon_Spengler and I got, it kinda seems like acids would hinder water's ability to dissolve alkaloids.

My original reasoning had to do with the fact that psilocybin acts like a polar molecule which is why it has such great solubility in water but acids are also mostly polar. Question is do the charges match or not?

Egon pointed out that acids and bases in water will help the other dissolve but hinder another of the same, as well that alkaloids tend to appear in fungi and plants as an acid salt of the compound.




Acids definitely help alkaloids dissolve. But with the amounts of water we are dealing with when making tea, it's not necessary because the alkaloids fully dissolve anyway. It may speed up the extraction tho? Not sure :shrug:

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Offlinegrain
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Registered: 07/16/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #28017015 - 10/26/22 04:24 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

It kinda seems like we need a chemistry thread, lol. Please don't tell me I'm the only one who does not know wtf you guys are talking about. I keep checking to see if I'm still in cultivation general discussion. I am interested in what y'all figure out though.
Is this basically to make crystal of the gods?

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OfflineDERRAYLD
Constructus
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: grain] * 3
    #28017017 - 10/26/22 04:31 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

There's an entire subforum for chemistry;

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/92

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OnlineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
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Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Adas]
    #28017022 - 10/26/22 04:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Yeah, that's another thing IIRC the saturation point for psilocybin in water is something like 2g/L.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023

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OnlineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
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Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: grain]
    #28017028 - 10/26/22 04:52 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

grain said:
It kinda seems like we need a chemistry thread, lol. Please don't tell me I'm the only one who does not know wtf you guys are talking about. I keep checking to see if I'm still in cultivation general discussion. I am interested in what y'all figure out though.
Is this basically to make crystal of the gods?



Yes and no, the discussion started with just extraction into water and preservation or potentiation of active compounds.

The scientific papers and book chapter that were linked do also talk about isolating psilocybin though further from the solution though.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023

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OfflinePsatellite
πŸ‹ + πŸ„ = πŸ‘½
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Registered: 08/25/22
Posts: 527
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28017194 - 10/26/22 08:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

grain said:
It kinda seems like we need a chemistry thread, lol. Please don't tell me I'm the only one who does not know wtf you guys are talking about. I keep checking to see if I'm still in cultivation general discussion. I am interested in what y'all figure out though.
Is this basically to make crystal of the gods?



Yes and no, the discussion started with just extraction into water and preservation or potentiation of active compounds.

The scientific papers and book chapter that were linked do also talk about isolating psilocybin though further from the solution though.




Yes! I'm going to have long crystals of the Gods! I wonder if you turn the crystals into Freebase if you could smoke it? I know psilocybin it's destroyed with heat, but maybe you can vaporize it.

SirPsycho

Quit while you're behind?

Edited by Psatellite (10/26/22 08:51 AM)

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OnlineSmellyhobbit
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #28017197 - 10/26/22 08:50 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Bruh. Please.


--------------------
A Love Letter to New Growers
A Guide for New Growers
Growth 2023 - A Year In Review

Grow more shrooms. Eat more ass. :mushroom:


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OfflineRusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/23/22
Posts: 4,946
Loc: 🌌
Last seen: 23 days, 13 hours
Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #28017201 - 10/26/22 08:55 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Smellyhobbit said:
Bruh. Please.



:whathesaid:


--------------------
Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. :mushroom2:

We don't own things - things own us.

Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)

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OfflinePsatellite
πŸ‹ + πŸ„ = πŸ‘½
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Registered: 08/25/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Rusty2096]
    #28017204 - 10/26/22 08:56 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Okay I'm done. Please forgive me.

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OnlineSirPsycho
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Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psatellite]
    #28017207 - 10/26/22 08:57 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psatellite said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

grain said:
It kinda seems like we need a chemistry thread, lol. Please don't tell me I'm the only one who does not know wtf you guys are talking about. I keep checking to see if I'm still in cultivation general discussion. I am interested in what y'all figure out though.
Is this basically to make crystal of the gods?



Yes and no, the discussion started with just extraction into water and preservation or potentiation of active compounds.

The scientific papers and book chapter that were linked do also talk about isolating psilocybin though further from the solution though.




Yes! I'm going to have long crystals of the Gods! I wonder if you turn the crystals into Freebase if you could smoke it? I know psilocybin it's destroyed with heat, but maybe you can vaporize it.

SirPsycho

Quit while you're behind?



Alright homie, come back when you got well documented experiments.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023

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OnlineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
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Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psatellite] * 2
    #28017208 - 10/26/22 09:01 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psatellite said:
Okay I'm done. Please forgive me.



Quote:

Psatellite said:
Unfortunately, what has been said can't be unsaid.



I guess that only applies to others then?


Quote:

Psatellite said:
I'm never going to mention this again as long as you don't. It's your decision.



Survey says "that was a fucking lie".


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023

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OfflineRusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga
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Registered: 08/23/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psatellite] * 1
    #28017210 - 10/26/22 09:02 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Stop with all that venting fanning my shrooms are drying from here :lol:


--------------------
Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. :mushroom2:

We don't own things - things own us.

Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)

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OfflinePsatellite
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28017211 - 10/26/22 09:04 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Since we're on the subject, here's a cool link with a bunch of lemon Tek information.

https://thethirdwave.co/lemon-tekking-shrooms/

Tek = technique

You don't need any science for a technique

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OfflinePsatellite
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Registered: 08/25/22
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psatellite]
    #28017216 - 10/26/22 09:05 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

All I'm doing is setting the story straight. I couldn't leave it like it was. I'm done now though. I apologize again. I hope you have a good day

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OfflineRusty2096
rah rah raw in Lady gaga
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Registered: 08/23/22
Posts: 4,946
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Inocuole] * 1
    #28017218 - 10/26/22 09:07 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Dude just stop and give the thread back to cultivation discussion.


Let me start : how wet do you guys keep your sub surface? (don't link me that proper surface condition post please). I like mine pretty wet and all bubbly but I let it somewhat dry when I see pins.


--------------------
Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. :mushroom2:

We don't own things - things own us.

Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)

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OnlineSirPsycho
Purple Belt in Google-Fu
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Registered: 01/01/20
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Re: Cultivation General Discussion [Re: Psatellite] * 1
    #28017220 - 10/26/22 09:09 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psatellite said:
Since we're on the subject, here's a cool link with a bunch of lemon Tek information.

https://thethirdwave.co/lemon-tekking-shrooms/

Tek = technique

You don't need any science for a technique



"The theory is that these juices break down psychedelic mushrooms so your digestive system doesn’t have to, exposing and then converting the readily-available psilocybin into psilocin, the prodrug responsible for the coveted psychoactive effects. "

It doesn't though, according to both links Yoshi posted it prevents breakdown into psilocin.

Edit: from Yoshi's comment

Some pretty cool info here

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/chemistry/psilocin

Among other things.

"Methanol was also used in a single extraction step by other investigators who concluded it to be the best for analysis of psilocybin from mushrooms [49]. They also used aqueous alcohol which increased the amount of psilocin recovered from the plant material. This was ultimately discovered to be an anomalous result from the degradation of psilocybin to psilocin. Use of dilute acetic acid solutions was found to be better for this recovery without the degradation problem."


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  πŸ…‘πŸ…žπŸ…£πŸ…£πŸ…›πŸ…” πŸ…–πŸ…πŸ…πŸ…–

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023

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