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TheDoubter
Myconaut



Registered: 12/27/18
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PTSD, depression, and mushrooms 1
#27909412 - 08/19/22 10:37 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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What's up gang? I am looking for some advice.
My mother in law came to me about a month ago and asked if I would help her do some mushrooms. She had recently watch Michael Pollan's "How to Change Your Mind" on Netflix and saw how powerful psychedelics can be. Let me first say that my mother in law is one of the strongest people I know. My mother in law suffers from severe depression and PTSD from sexual abuse as a child. She fights everyday and has raised 2 incredible kids and has an extremely loving and beautiful marriage.
She has finally found a therapist that she really likes and has been going through some VERY tough mental work. It causes what she calls "purges" in which she says old suppressed memories and feelings flood into her and all she can do is hold on and pray until it is over. Her last purge was so rough that she was in a full on panic attack that lasted a few hours. I have known her for 11 years now and I have watched her daily struggle with depression. About 4 years ago she was in the hospital after an attempted suicide. I have been telling my wife since I met her, that I wish her mother could go somewhere and get psychedelic therapy.
I do mushrooms or other psychedelics on average once a month for the past 5 years. I would like to think that I am moderately experienced and knowledgeable in doing psychedelics. That being said, I am almost exclusively self taught save for a few friends and psychedelic heads who have helped me out along the way. I have no medical training. I am no guide or shaman or anything like that. I will say that my life's dream is to own a retreat center where people can come to work on whatever they want with the help of psychedelics and other methods both spiritual and medicinal. I say that just to give you an idea of my want to someday be able to do work like this, not to say that I am in anyway qualified today.
Ever since my MIL asked me I have been apprehensive. I want to help her. My MIL has done a ton of research about mushrooms and the psychedelic experience and she believes that she is ready to try. I have sent her every video and article I could find to try to give her as much information as possible about the whole experience. I have stressed to her that this is not a miracle drug or something that you take and everything is better; that she is going to come down and be back to reality. It is hard because I am like Mr. Mushroom, I advocate for all kinds of mushrooms and supplements for all of my friends and family. Now one of the people I love most in this world has come and asked for my help and I do not know what to do. I want to make sure that I am being as intelligent and as safe as I possibly can. If anyone else came to me and asked if I could help them get into psychedelics, I would DEFINITLEY help them in whatever way they wanted me to.
I am going to sit down with my MIL this weekend and have an in depth discussion with her about the whole thing. Basically I want to conduct like a prescreen diagnostic sort of thing to see if I think this kind of psychedelic experience should even be on the table for her right now. That give me all kinds of other conflicted feelings because I then feel like, "who am I to gatekeep these psychedelics from people who could truly benefit from them?" I intend to ask her what medications if any she is taking, what she wants to get out of the experience, and what she expects from it. I am also going to restress the point that during the experience, anything that you do not want to think about will indeed come up.
My father in law has never done and psychedelics and my wife has only dipped her toes in the water.
The advice I am seeking is kind of in 2 parts. 1)What do you think about the whole idea? What would you do in this situation. And 2)What would you ask/tell someone you were prescreening for a psychedelic experience? Given the circumstances?
Thank you!
Mush love TD
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 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together  The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. -Edgar Allan Poe "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." "DMT is half the world." -Terence McKenna Where is my mind? My first heroic dose.
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,250
Loc: Canada
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter] 2
#27911959 - 08/21/22 12:03 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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How many grams were you guys thinking?
One mushroom experience alone is probably not a good idea unless there was an experienced shaman who specializes in processing trauma.
She should probably have a macrodose like 1g to know what mushrooms feel like without feeling completely out of control during the regular processing of any unwanted emotions that usually happens with doses 4g and up. I mean not feeling in control is the point, but staying calm during that process is what every new person doing shrooms struggles with and where bad trips scare the hell out of people to never touch shrooms again.
I've always cried for probably about an hour whenever I did 4 or 5g, either from grief or just not liking what I saw or heard. Crying is apart of processing emotions though right which is why I personally never considered those bad trips.
I also had PTSD from sexual abuse as a child. Environment is a huge thing for people with PTSD. She has to be 100% comfortable in that environment. Know she has people she 100% trusts around her/close by. My best shroom experiences were outside with a fantastic private view of the ocean, trees, everything beautiful. It's a great distraction if any super negative thoughts come up and allowed me to focus on bigger pictures(literally and figuratively).
Another option is microdosing, which can give her some psychological benefits and potentially improve the work with her therapist. Although, this purge stuff sounds a little strange to me. For me personally, I had cognitive behavioural therapy and that benefitted me fine, the mushrooms really allowed me to do what I thought was impossible in regards to overcoming the sexual abuse and completely curing my PTSD.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls. Be one, see one. When many people have this heart connection, then we will know that we are all one, we human beings all over the planet. We will be one. One love. And don’t leave out the animals, and trees, and clouds, and galaxies: it’s all one. It’s one energy." -Ram Dass
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masspan
l'eclair


Registered: 07/26/08
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psychedelics show us our own mortality (i barf on mushrooms typically, feels like dying before the really wild stuff), for whatever we have experienced in our life, i believe an appropriate medecine is never worse than the reality of this crazy existence, and that set/setting is as important as always
OP sounds like you are very aware of what is happening, i hope for the very best for you and your family
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my mother said, to get things done, you'd better not mess with Major Tom...whose status is the baddest, everytime 'they' bless the apparatus
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HappyHigh
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: masspan] 1
#27913421 - 08/22/22 09:41 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I've had bad feelings and thoughts that I felt couldn't be force out of my head at just .8
I micro dose at .5, 3 times a day when I am stable. Even then, I start at .3 and come up over 4 days too .5
I think you should def start out with a micro dosing a few days then take a jump to a 1g. be a lot safer mentally.
If they do have a bad time. I find saying or even shouting *Love* at the time of a bad trip, even just feelings or thoughts i find disturbing helps me maintain and recover better.
Personally if I was guiding this person I would start at a .2 twice a day. after a week +/- as needed. they like a low dose allow them to take w/e they feel. they don't like the down time add a 3rd dose at lunch. it's too much just do one in the morning for a brighter day.
they enjoy it? ok lets take a nice 1g night, that was fun ok then lets add a .5 next time make it 1.5
-------------------- Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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TheDoubter
Myconaut



Registered: 12/27/18
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Last seen: 11 months, 18 days
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: HappyHigh] 1
#27913865 - 08/22/22 03:56 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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thank you all for the feedback and input! i really appreciate you guys helping me out. so she came over and we talked for about 2 hours about the experience. She is very eager to try. i think she truly believes she is ready and she has done some solid research. just from the amount of work she is currently doing in therapy and all of the tools she has learned to deal with the trauma, i think she is ready to dip her toes in the waters.
@r3volution.gurl hearing that from someone who has had similar trauma as my MIL is awesome! thank you.
Quote:
How many grams were you guys thinking?
i was thinking of starting with 1g. take it at like noon, have a nice easy afternoon, then have some dinner and talk it all over. then next session, like you said @HappyHigh, upping the dose to maybe 1.5g and slowly working our way up. i did throw out the micro dosing idea to her and she was interested but she really wants to try to have an experience.
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 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together  The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. -Edgar Allan Poe "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." "DMT is half the world." -Terence McKenna Where is my mind? My first heroic dose.
Edited by TheDoubter (08/22/22 07:19 PM)
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,250
Loc: Canada
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter]
#27914077 - 08/22/22 06:35 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls. Be one, see one. When many people have this heart connection, then we will know that we are all one, we human beings all over the planet. We will be one. One love. And don’t leave out the animals, and trees, and clouds, and galaxies: it’s all one. It’s one energy." -Ram Dass
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TheDoubter
Myconaut



Registered: 12/27/18
Posts: 339
Last seen: 11 months, 18 days
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i know this is kind of a long shot, but im doing some research online and figured i would ask here as well: Does anyone have any experience with the drug Effexor and know about its effects with psilocybin? This is the antidepressant that my MIL is on.
Thanks again gang!
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 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together  The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. -Edgar Allan Poe "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." "DMT is half the world." -Terence McKenna Where is my mind? My first heroic dose.
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HappyHigh
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter]
#27915722 - 08/23/22 09:15 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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it is labeled a serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI)
sounds not trip friendly but I'm not sure.
-------------------- Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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TheDoubter
Myconaut



Registered: 12/27/18
Posts: 339
Last seen: 11 months, 18 days
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: HappyHigh]
#27915761 - 08/23/22 09:54 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HappyHigh said: sounds not trip friendly but I'm not sure.
Yea from what I’m seeing it looks like it could stop her from having an experience. Or at least weaken it
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 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together  The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. -Edgar Allan Poe "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." "DMT is half the world." -Terence McKenna Where is my mind? My first heroic dose.
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r3volution.gurl



Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,250
Loc: Canada
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter] 1
#27915808 - 08/23/22 10:48 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Can You Take Shrooms On An SNRI? Serotonin-Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors (SNRIs) are a class of antidepressant medications that boost both serotonin and norepinephrine levels in the brain. Similarly to SSRIs, their mechanism of action is largely unknown. Some typically prescribed SNRIs are:
Desvenlafaxine (Pristiq, Khedezla) Duloxetine (Cymbalta) Levomilnacipran (Fetzima) Milnacipran (Ixel, Savella) Venlafaxine (Effexor XR) Just like with SSRIs, we would expect SNRIs to overlap with the effects of psilocybin. However, there are no reports of serious adverse effects of combining the two. If anything, taking SNRIs appears to reduce the effects of psychedelics – but you should not use psilocybin unless you have professional guidance supporting you.
https://www.synthesisretreat.com/psilocybin-and-ssri-snri-interactions
I would never tell someone to get off anti depressants, but in your MIL's case, I highly doubt she actually needs them and they will probably do more harm than good if used long term like 3+ years. I remember watching an amazing lecture from a neurologist explaining how synthetic chemicals produced from these medications can make our brains too dependent on them meaning it can actually cause people to stop producing the chemicals naturally if they decide to ween off at some point. All these drugs for majority of cases of depression and anxiety were supposed to be used short term to give people the boost they need to get back on their feet so to speak.
Some people really do need for their whole lives though because of more severe mental illness like bipolar or schizophrenia. Some people are ok and prefer taking meds for their whole lives despite probably not needing them because it's their lifestyle, environment or trauma that needs attention and not a chemical imbalance or genetic mental illness for example. It's really people's choice so I am just sharing my opinion about it. Not necessarily regarding your MIL per say.
I took prozak for one month when I was 16(I can't remember why I stopped considering one month doesn't actually do anything). I tried again when I was 20 for maybe 3 months, a different medication my doctor described as taking the edge off lol it just never really changed much for me at that time and I didn't want to up the dosages to find out because I was doing pretty well with cognitive behavioural therapy anyways.
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  "Souls love. That’s what souls do. Egos don’t, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and you’ll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls. Be one, see one. When many people have this heart connection, then we will know that we are all one, we human beings all over the planet. We will be one. One love. And don’t leave out the animals, and trees, and clouds, and galaxies: it’s all one. It’s one energy." -Ram Dass
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Bong420
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1)What do you think about the whole idea? What would you do in this situation. And 2)What would you ask/tell someone you were prescreening for a psychedelic experience? Given the circumstances?
1)Sounds like a possibly bad idea. She asked you for help, so i guess if I was in your shoes I’d dose her.
2)Screen for preexisting health problems like heart and blood pressure, suicidal ideation and other psychologic things.
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TheDoubter
Myconaut



Registered: 12/27/18
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Quote:
r3volution.gurl said:
https://www.synthesisretreat.com/psilocybin-and-ssri-snri-interactions
Yea I was reading that site! I want to move to Netherlands and get a job over there now haha.
I did explain to her the other day that this might be a possibility. I'm definitely am not going to be the one who tells her to ween off or quit anything that a doctor has prescribed her. I do not have any experience with any sort of anti depressants(except for weed, mushrooms, and acid of course ) what you have said has jived with what I've read and researched. I have been really pushing her to bring up her interest in trying psychedelics to her (trauma)therapist to get her perspective on it but my MIL has been apprehensive to do so which is kinda weird considering all of the other things she has told her.
@Bong420 1)took the words out of my mouth 2)already on it 
Idk, I am going to have another discussion with her and stress that she ask her therapist for any advice and possibly what her therapist would think about weening off her medication. I'm not sure, I am a bit conflicted about that last part: asking about weening off the drugs. The thought of putting the idea of weening off one's psychotropic medication in anyone's head is a bit scary. I guess if she is going to consider it at all, it would be best to consider it with the person prescribing it. I know that when I tell her how it is going to negatively affect her psychedelic experience, she will be upset and thinking of ways around it. Obviously I REALLY do not want her trying to do it by herself.
Thanks for helping me bounce these ideas around gang. I really appreciate you guys and your input!
Mush Love TD
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 I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together  The believer is happy. The doubter is wise. -Edgar Allan Poe "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." "DMT is half the world." -Terence McKenna Where is my mind? My first heroic dose.
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RoatanMush
I’m not a cat



Registered: 08/20/22
Posts: 31
Loc: Siwenna
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter] 1
#27917395 - 08/24/22 10:18 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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One thing to note. If your MIL’s therapist/PCM say it’s a bad idea, they don’t want to help. I, too, am a childhood sexual assault survivor, and I can 100% respect and understand where she is coming from because that is the same reason why I’m here, though I haven’t had much luck cultivating, I’m learning from you all which is preparing me for when the moment happens. My psychiatrist and I discussed it at length, and she is on board with me. We discussed discontinuing what I’m currently taking which is Zoloft, and if I was going to do this safely, she recommended that I stop taking the SSRI a week before my trip.
I also live aways from Oakland, where it’s legal, so the struggle is quite literally real for survivors of sex assault who are trying to find help in CA. (in my case.) It is life changing when your mental health counsel backs you up. We just want to, maybe if not completely be healed, at least find some balance, because it is rough. Have you discussed with her perhaps joining a clinical study? I admire her courage and resilience. She sounds like a remarkable woman. She's also very fortunate to have you in her life, but you’re also blessed for it. I wish her the best and all the love. She deserves peace, light, love and happiness.
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TerdleMountain
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter]
#27998149 - 10/14/22 07:09 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheDoubter said: She has finally found a therapist that she really likes and has been going through some VERY tough mental work. It causes what she calls "purges" in which she says old suppressed memories and feelings flood into her and all she can do is hold on and pray until it is over. Her last purge was so rough that she was in a full on panic attack that lasted a few hours. TD
This is bad!
I'm a survivor of a pretty horrific childhood, violent household, addictions, alcoholism, sexual abuse, narcissistic mother... I had buried the memories of nearly all of it. I didn't recall how bad things were, but they still were wrecking my life.
The "purges" your MIL is having are actually flashbacks.. I know because I get them too. If her therapist is delving into the trauma without first working on stabilization.. she's not qualified to work with your MIL, end of sentence. Before working with the trauma, your MIL first needs to learn how to self sooth and regulate her emotions, it can be dangerous for her otherwise (suicide).
I'm about a year into therapy and we are still in the stabilization phase, I have processed some of the trauma because it came up and I had no choice... but for the most part we stay away from it for now.
She needs to find a qualified therapist who is trauma informed, someone who is familiar with dissociative disorders (flashbacks are a form of dissociation).
Right now shrooms would be a roll of the dice, it might be good for her but she might get caught up in some real negative stuff and win up in an even worse place than she is now. They really turned my life around, but I wonder if I just got lucky.
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LowDownDennis
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Re: PTSD, depression, and mushrooms [Re: TheDoubter]
#28005183 - 10/18/22 05:44 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheDoubter said: What's up gang? I am looking for some advice.
My mother in law came to me about a month ago and asked if I would help her do some mushrooms. She had recently watch Michael Pollan's "How to Change Your Mind" on Netflix and saw how powerful psychedelics can be. Let me first say that my mother in law is one of the strongest people I know. My mother in law suffers from severe depression and PTSD from sexual abuse as a child. She fights everyday and has raised 2 incredible kids and has an extremely loving and beautiful marriage.
She has finally found a therapist that she really likes and has been going through some VERY tough mental work. It causes what she calls "purges" in which she says old suppressed memories and feelings flood into her and all she can do is hold on and pray until it is over. Her last purge was so rough that she was in a full on panic attack that lasted a few hours. I have known her for 11 years now and I have watched her daily struggle with depression. About 4 years ago she was in the hospital after an attempted suicide. I have been telling my wife since I met her, that I wish her mother could go somewhere and get psychedelic therapy.
I do mushrooms or other psychedelics on average once a month for the past 5 years. I would like to think that I am moderately experienced and knowledgeable in doing psychedelics. That being said, I am almost exclusively self taught save for a few friends and psychedelic heads who have helped me out along the way. I have no medical training. I am no guide or shaman or anything like that. I will say that my life's dream is to own a retreat center where people can come to work on whatever they want with the help of psychedelics and other methods both spiritual and medicinal. I say that just to give you an idea of my want to someday be able to do work like this, not to say that I am in anyway qualified today.
Ever since my MIL asked me I have been apprehensive. I want to help her. My MIL has done a ton of research about mushrooms and the psychedelic experience and she believes that she is ready to try. I have sent her every video and article I could find to try to give her as much information as possible about the whole experience. I have stressed to her that this is not a miracle drug or something that you take and everything is better; that she is going to come down and be back to reality. It is hard because I am like Mr. Mushroom, I advocate for all kinds of mushrooms and supplements for all of my friends and family. Now one of the people I love most in this world has come and asked for my help and I do not know what to do. I want to make sure that I am being as intelligent and as safe as I possibly can. If anyone else came to me and asked if I could help them get into psychedelics, I would DEFINITLEY help them in whatever way they wanted me to.
I am going to sit down with my MIL this weekend and have an in depth discussion with her about the whole thing. Basically I want to conduct like a prescreen diagnostic sort of thing to see if I think this kind of psychedelic experience should even be on the table for her right now. That give me all kinds of other conflicted feelings because I then feel like, "who am I to gatekeep these psychedelics from people who could truly benefit from them?" I intend to ask her what medications if any she is taking, what she wants to get out of the experience, and what she expects from it. I am also going to restress the point that during the experience, anything that you do not want to think about will indeed come up.
My father in law has never done and psychedelics and my wife has only dipped her toes in the water.
The advice I am seeking is kind of in 2 parts. 1)What do you think about the whole idea? What would you do in this situation. And 2)What would you ask/tell someone you were prescreening for a psychedelic experience? Given the circumstances?
Thank you!
Mush love TD
I don't know her financial situation, but there are online resources for finding therapists who use psychedelics in therapy sessions. She might get a better result with somebody who can guide her, set expectations, and provide a safe environment.
I'm thinking of doing it myself.
Best of luck to her. She sounds like a fighter.
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