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dumbesthuman
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about rehab and it hurting people.
#28004896 - 10/18/22 03:19 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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many rehabs say no electronics, no coffee. some of them make the recovery process as painful as possible to be perfectly honest.
what this accomplishes is makes you never want to have to withdraw from drugs again, it was probably excruciating. weaning yourself off in a way that does not traumatize you should have a much higher success rate in almost any case.
this creates repeat business because what does almost everyone end up doing, pain killers, u will very likely get addicted and end up in rehab again the way they condition people
what im saying rehab should probably be exactly like life except u cant get the drug that is causing u issues. u want some coffee or need a xanax who cares will that really impact success rate? almost for sure not dead serious. and if u get addicted to the replacements, it would be a force taper and a drug allowance. not hard to work out rehab could be cheap and a lot more effective if we did not just use brainwashing.
-------------------- had to make new account, last one got banned for "puppeting" whatever that means, inherently dangerous ideas are frowned upon. it's extremely important to spread regardless. check out my linked in or heres a link to my quora for more info, basically people pretend coding subtext and lack of data does not exist and will put u on forced meds for admitting otherwise. imo ram das be here now is filled with lies laced with code. I think we need to seriously analyze coding as a group if we want to become "enlightened" in any way. interesting example hot rocks with trumps face and dogecoin putin's. also cancer cure likely launches nukes. NOT BLAMING SHROOMERY AT ALL IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. https://www.quora.com/profile/Eli-Rossman-4
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SnowDaze
Probably Relapsing on Heroin



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: dumbesthuman] 2
#28007719 - 10/20/22 10:50 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Ok so before I respond I just wanna say that the addiction treatment model IS broken but not for the reasons you are stating here.
They don't take your electronics/phone away from you to make you miserable and I have never been to a place that doesn't allow you to drink at least some coffee everyday. They might limit your caffeine intake or cut you off at a certain time of day but that is usually just do you will be able to sleep at night without problems. The reason they take your electronics/phone is so you can FOCUS ON YOUR RECOVERY and start to look inward rather than just distract yourself. When most people are able to keep their phone they are stuck thinking about outside things that they cant even probably deal with at the time which can lead them back out to using. Also it gives people connection to the outside which can make people seek drugs out when they in withdrawal which can make people leave the program.
I have been to places that don't take your phone/computer away from you and the rate of success (which is already low) is even lower at a place like that and they usually cost a lot more.
Your argument about how people should be able to take a xanax or another drug while they are in treatment for addiction is absolutely crazy. Most people cant stay clean unless they fully give themselves to sobriety and that means abstaining from all drugs and working a program of recovery. Many people who aren't willing to do so will continue to relapse once some time passes and end up back on to their DOC. It absolutely will affect success rate...
Also, I have never been to a rehab that would make you detox with no taper meds if you are physically addicted to a substance. Not only is that a horrible way for you to do it but its also dangerous most of the time. Any state run facility probably wont even allow you to do it without the meds because of liability.
Sounds like you had a bad experience with recovery and now hold a resentment towards it which I can totally understand. I have been in and out of recovery since 2012/2013 or so and I used to be very against rehab and 12 step programs until I realized that almost always the problem was me and not them.
If you are trying to get sober and need someone to talk to you can always send me a PM. I am always here to talk and try to help people find resources to do so if they are serious about it. Sobriety most the time doesn't look the way we want it to but it can be a great thing if you can just surrender to it.
The reason the rehab/recovery model is broken in my opinion is because in Florida/California (and other states im sure) they send you to Detox/Residential treatment and get you clean while charging your insurance a lot of money. Then they move you to an IOP which charges your insurance and usually that can pay for your housing in a sober living (which a lot of times is connected to the detox). When you relapse they dont really care because they send you back to the detox which again bills your insurance and the cycle begins. So they make money shipping you back and forth between the two. Do they want you to get sober? Maybe yes, but do they make money when you relapse? Absolutely.
There is a solution though and gets getting yourself out of that cycle and environment and truly giving yourself to a program of recovery. The 12 steps seem to be working well in my life currently. Will I stay sober forever? Who knows, but I am just staying with it for now.
Last thing... Once again, if anyone is struggling with addiction feel free to reach out to me. I am always here to talk and try to help.
much love,
_SD
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If you get confused, listen to the music play
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. (moved) [Re: dumbesthuman]
#28008018 - 10/20/22 03:33 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from The Psychedelic Experience.
Reason: More suited here
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dumbesthuman
Stranger


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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: SnowDaze]
#28008153 - 10/20/22 05:17 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SnowDaze said: Ok so before I respond I just wanna say that the addiction treatment model IS broken but not for the reasons you are stating here.
They don't take your electronics/phone away from you to make you miserable and I have never been to a place that doesn't allow you to drink at least some coffee everyday. They might limit your caffeine intake or cut you off at a certain time of day but that is usually just do you will be able to sleep at night without problems. The reason they take your electronics/phone is so you can FOCUS ON YOUR RECOVERY and start to look inward rather than just distract yourself. When most people are able to keep their phone they are stuck thinking about outside things that they cant even probably deal with at the time which can lead them back out to using. Also it gives people connection to the outside which can make people seek drugs out when they in withdrawal which can make people leave the program.
I have been to places that don't take your phone/computer away from you and the rate of success (which is already low) is even lower at a place like that and they usually cost a lot more.
Your argument about how people should be able to take a xanax or another drug while they are in treatment for addiction is absolutely crazy. Most people cant stay clean unless they fully give themselves to sobriety and that means abstaining from all drugs and working a program of recovery. Many people who aren't willing to do so will continue to relapse once some time passes and end up back on to their DOC. It absolutely will affect success rate...
Also, I have never been to a rehab that would make you detox with no taper meds if you are physically addicted to a substance. Not only is that a horrible way for you to do it but its also dangerous most of the time. Any state run facility probably wont even allow you to do it without the meds because of liability.
Sounds like you had a bad experience with recovery and now hold a resentment towards it which I can totally understand. I have been in and out of recovery since 2012/2013 or so and I used to be very against rehab and 12 step programs until I realized that almost always the problem was me and not them.
If you are trying to get sober and need someone to talk to you can always send me a PM. I am always here to talk and try to help people find resources to do so if they are serious about it. Sobriety most the time doesn't look the way we want it to but it can be a great thing if you can just surrender to it.
The reason the rehab/recovery model is broken in my opinion is because in Florida/California (and other states im sure) they send you to Detox/Residential treatment and get you clean while charging your insurance a lot of money. Then they move you to an IOP which charges your insurance and usually that can pay for your housing in a sober living (which a lot of times is connected to the detox). When you relapse they dont really care because they send you back to the detox which again bills your insurance and the cycle begins. So they make money shipping you back and forth between the two. Do they want you to get sober? Maybe yes, but do they make money when you relapse? Absolutely.
There is a solution though and gets getting yourself out of that cycle and environment and truly giving yourself to a program of recovery. The 12 steps seem to be working well in my life currently. Will I stay sober forever? Who knows, but I am just staying with it for now.
Last thing... Once again, if anyone is struggling with addiction feel free to reach out to me. I am always here to talk and try to help.
much love,
_SD
thank u so much for the respect, that is an extremely valuable asset you have. and for my sources i went to mayo for stomach pain, they said u are not allowed painkillers, we need u to go to hazeldon, i went there, all they did was watch tv and talk about how if u leave there is only a 1% chance u ever recover. and no, no coffee, probably because i was a 19, young adult. but yes there are goups of people who have a problem like just with pot, they can use xans and heroin to help wean themselves off with low risk, they do not have the environment to do so for a reason. the twelve step program is brainwashing.
im not saying u are wrong, theres tons of ways to skin a cat, what im saying is drug addiction is most likley a feature that money is being spent to keep alive. ill come back and read your comment later just my basic response to someone who thinks, same reason meth is actually highly contaminated but it looks crystal clear. that is on purpose, it is honestly cheaper to make safe meth i shit you not
-------------------- had to make new account, last one got banned for "puppeting" whatever that means, inherently dangerous ideas are frowned upon. it's extremely important to spread regardless. check out my linked in or heres a link to my quora for more info, basically people pretend coding subtext and lack of data does not exist and will put u on forced meds for admitting otherwise. imo ram das be here now is filled with lies laced with code. I think we need to seriously analyze coding as a group if we want to become "enlightened" in any way. interesting example hot rocks with trumps face and dogecoin putin's. also cancer cure likely launches nukes. NOT BLAMING SHROOMERY AT ALL IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. https://www.quora.com/profile/Eli-Rossman-4
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SnowDaze
Probably Relapsing on Heroin



Registered: 02/24/13
Posts: 5,996
Loc: Home, Home Again....
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: dumbesthuman]
#28008517 - 10/20/22 10:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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im hoping that you are trolling me...
they can use xans and heroin to get off weed??
im not trying to be disrespectful I just have a hard time believing that anyone would think that was a good idea
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If you get confused, listen to the music play
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
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Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: SnowDaze] 1
#28008941 - 10/21/22 08:10 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Just a little bit of heroin & xanax while in rehab to help get off the weed he says... 
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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feevers



Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28008953 - 10/21/22 08:23 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Oddly enough heroin and benzos were what got me to stop smoking weed when I was 19 or so. When you're nodding off all day and spending all your money to starve off withdrawals the last thing you're thinking about is hitting the bong. I think this guy is on to something
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SnowDaze
Probably Relapsing on Heroin



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: feevers]
#28009491 - 10/21/22 03:27 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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oh god.., troll food continues
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If you get confused, listen to the music play
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: feevers]
#28009773 - 10/21/22 06:19 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: Oddly enough heroin and benzos were what got me to stop smoking weed when I was 19 or so. When you're nodding off all day and spending all your money to starve off withdrawals the last thing you're thinking about is hitting the bong. I think this guy is on to something
Oddly enough me too.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Northerner
splelling chceker


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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28009961 - 10/21/22 09:05 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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He should write a tek for that.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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CaptainTrips420
SevereConvict

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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: Northerner]
#28013005 - 10/23/22 06:09 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Drug treatment definitely harms me. If I have drug tests I’m going to use inhalants again. When I had drug tests I drank lots of alcohol took DXM Dimenhydrinate kratom spice LSD and DMT. I will just use more dangerous chemicals than weed if unavailable. Plus the whole thing is a waste of time at least for me I am determined to never quit.
I was drug tested by probation all the time and when I learned they thought I was going to be drug free permanently I got weed. I had half an ounce of weed 1 week before graduating drug treatment probation. They ended my probation and 30 minutes later I was smoking weed I freaked out thought they were playing a trick on me and where going to test me the next day almost had a panic attack. The whole thing was a waste of time just like all the other mental health nonsense.
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asterix
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: dumbesthuman]
#28013208 - 10/23/22 08:22 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Ibogaine kicks rehab's ass when it comes to curing addiction.
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SnowDaze
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: asterix]
#28015803 - 10/25/22 11:54 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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i mean i almost stopped smoking weed entirely when i was on heroin and benzos... hell i stopped doing everything altogether.
then of course i was addicted to heroin and benzos
there is no quick fix for addiction but I hear Ibogaine is about as close as you could get
AA is simple and works well for a lot of people. It just takes effort that most people are not willing to do. They refuse to believe they are not the center of the universe, there is no way a higher power of any kind could exist because they cant conceptualize god, and they put in minimal effort of going to a meeting or two/half assing the steps just to prove it wont work for their own ego because they couldnt ever be wrong.
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If you get confused, listen to the music play
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: SnowDaze]
#28018300 - 10/26/22 07:57 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SnowDaze said:
AA is simple and works well for a lot of people. It just takes effort that most people are not willing to do. They refuse to believe they are not the center of the universe, there is no way a higher power of any kind could exist because they cant conceptualize god, and they put in minimal effort of going to a meeting or two/half assing the steps just to prove it wont work for their own ego because they couldnt ever be wrong.
AA admits they have never helped anyone defeat an addiction. They say it's impossible.
Let's follow the science Shroomery peeps. Ya don't need a higher power to change your behavior.
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Northerner
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#28018329 - 10/26/22 08:18 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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It's that exact flawed and obsolete science that makes me not have much respect for the program. I know you can defeat an addiction because I've defeated several. Drugs that I haven't considered in many years. If I was sat around talking and thinking about them they would still be a problem. Don't think of a black horse psychology in action.
"Oh, alcohol isn't a problem for me. I just sit around talking about it all the time even though I haven't drunk in years."
Seems like there's some dissonance there, to me. For others here who have overcome addictions they also truly understand the fallacy. Overcoming obsessive thinking and ruminating is the largest part of the challenge of addiction. Once you can scrape that shit off your plate you are good to go. No need to look back and dwell or ask imaginary friends for help. The addiction cycle is over.
I'm not saying AA isn't great for intervention, but as a long term solution it's got very poor outcomes, and that statement is supported by their recidivism rates. Most addicts do quit their addictions permanently, and most do it alone at home. That's some cold hard statistical facts.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: Northerner]
#28018465 - 10/26/22 10:13 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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That’s part of the problem I have with it. It touts a sort of pseudo honesty which really never ever sat right with my better judgement + good sense. Imho&e, it could stand to lose the parts that reify false dualistic division and maybe focus on whatever stands up to true scientific inquiry & careful philosophical scrutiny…all while doing time in the universal mind, of course. Deep understanding trumps both self delusion & surrendering oneself to dogma 
Ahh w/e…all roads lead to Rome and whatnot…
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (10/26/22 10:22 PM)
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theRealrollforever
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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: The Blind Ass]
#28018626 - 10/27/22 02:45 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Turn AA into a productive, inclusive place to recovery by simply changing with the times?
Your gonna hurt a lot of butts
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sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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SnowDaze
Probably Relapsing on Heroin



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#28019059 - 10/27/22 10:21 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
SnowDaze said:
AA is simple and works well for a lot of people. It just takes effort that most people are not willing to do. They refuse to believe they are not the center of the universe, there is no way a higher power of any kind could exist because they cant conceptualize god, and they put in minimal effort of going to a meeting or two/half assing the steps just to prove it wont work for their own ego because they couldnt ever be wrong.
AA admits they have never helped anyone defeat an addiction. They say it's impossible.
Let's follow the science Shroomery peeps. Ya don't need a higher power to change your behavior.
Actually, this is not true. The Big Book clearly says "Alcoholics Anonymous: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism". It says that it requires maintenance to stay recovered but people do recover.
There is also a big difference between having a dependency on something and having the disease of addiction/alcoholism.
We want others to have an open mindedness when it comes to drugs but when it comes to a higher power or the 12-steps we dont wanna have an open mind toward that.
12-step method has the best odds of recovery out of anything we currently have for addiction.
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If you get confused, listen to the music play
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SnowDaze
Probably Relapsing on Heroin



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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: Northerner]
#28019063 - 10/27/22 10:24 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said:
I'm not saying AA isn't great for intervention, but as a long term solution it's got very poor outcomes, and that statement is supported by their recidivism rates. Most addicts do quit their addictions permanently, and most do it alone at home. That's some cold hard statistical facts.
can you please show me where these statistical facts can be found?
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feevers


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Re: about rehab and it hurting people. [Re: SnowDaze]
#28019081 - 10/27/22 10:32 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
SnowDaze said: 12-step method has the best odds of recovery out of anything we currently have for addiction.
Not by a long shot.
As Northerner said, the majority of people who get clean do it without 12 step or any formal treatment at all.
Medication assisted treatment has the best success rates in terms of formal treatment, especially when combined with therapy. Partial hospitalization programs, IOP's and even basic outpatient CBT have equal or better (some studies say double) the success rate of 12 step programs
It's one tool that works for some people, most people need something else
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