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336
menehune


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Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use?
#28004765 - 10/18/22 01:59 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I mean most power is still generated via fossil fuels right? Which means that electric vehicles are still mostly powered by fossil fuels. Or am I mistaken?
I found this, but I'm not sure how accurate it is.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Psilynut2
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 1
#28004824 - 10/18/22 02:37 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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My wife has a Tesla and it's charged 98% of the time in our garage and we have solar . They don't have to be powered with fossil fuels but ya I think you right .
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28004859 - 10/18/22 03:01 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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First, electric vehicles are far more efficient than internal combustion vehicles. Second, even when electricity is generated from fossil fuel, that generation is very efficient because of the scale of power plants. It isn't really even close. An electric car results in less carbon emission per mile even if the electricity is 100% from coal.
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28004903 - 10/18/22 03:23 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Do you have anything to back these claims up?
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 2
#28004915 - 10/18/22 03:28 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 1
#28004945 - 10/18/22 03:40 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Looks legit. Mahalo for finding the links for me.
I'm curious if we will ever develop nuclear powered vehicles for mass production. Some kind of tiny Tony Stark reactor or something.
Edit: Nvm nuclear power is still basically a giant steam engine, right? Probably couldn't fit that into a car. That said I could be totally wrong right now.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
Edited by 336 (10/18/22 03:42 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28004949 - 10/18/22 03:41 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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If fusion ever becomes a reality, that's possible.
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Kryptos
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28004998 - 10/18/22 04:03 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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We could easily run cars off nuclear engines, I'm pretty sure any idiot with an old davy crockett warhead should be able to build a nuclear stirling engine. I think the bigger concern is the ready access to radioactive material. Every car becomes a potential dirty bomb.
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natedawgnow
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Psilynut2]
#28005006 - 10/18/22 04:08 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: My wife has a Tesla and it's charged 98% of the time in our garage and we have solar . They don't have to be powered with fossil fuels but ya I think you right .
Is your solar grid tie?
--------------------
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: natedawgnow]
#28005015 - 10/18/22 04:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: My wife has a Tesla and it's charged 98% of the time in our garage and we have solar . They don't have to be powered with fossil fuels but ya I think you right .
Is your solar grid tie?
guaranteed it is
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28005017 - 10/18/22 04:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: We could easily run cars off nuclear engines, I'm pretty sure any idiot with an old davy crockett warhead should be able to build a nuclear stirling engine. I think the bigger concern is the ready access to radioactive material. Every car becomes a potential dirty bomb.
yeah you have a point. Not sure if there is any way around that...
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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ONE OZ SLUG
-


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28005646 - 10/18/22 11:19 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Damn 336 you're already at almost 1k posts.
That signature is pretty funny also.
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
#28005648 - 10/18/22 11:21 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
ONE OZ SLUG said: Damn 336 you're already at almost 1k posts.
That signature is pretty funny also.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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suicideprevention


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 1
#28011421 - 10/22/22 09:09 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Iβm curious to find reputable, unbiased statistics on how much carbon is emitted when mining for the metals to build a battery. Also what happens when battery life is depleted. As far as I know, batteries canβt be recycled very easily
-------------------- Microdosing to stay alive
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Brian Jones
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: suicideprevention] 1
#28011916 - 10/23/22 03:50 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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That's a good question. EVs or maybe some other non-petrol vehicle regime is obviously coming, and progressive improvements will be made, but having billions of people in the world driving will always have environmental costs.
Actually, I don't even think they can do reputable, unbiased statistics at this point because so much still remains to be seen. I have little faith that super rich and powerful fossil fuel companies will be replaced by significantly less exploitive new energy conglomerates. Capitalism, communism, or social democracy has not made a difference either. If you meet people's needs now, the future is jeopardized.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Ice9
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Brian Jones]
#28013494 - 10/24/22 01:32 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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EVs result in less green house gasses over the lifetime of the vehicle. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Stable Genius
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Psilynut2]
#28013551 - 10/24/22 03:57 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: My wife has a Tesla and it's charged 98% of the time in our garage and we have solar . They don't have to be powered with fossil fuels but ya I think you right .
How many Kilowatt Hours of charging does the Mrs' Tesla take to charge? 50? 75?
You'd need a whopper of a solar system to charge it from empty to full even over a weekend. A 10Kw array might do it in a day in the middle of summer, otherwise it'll be getting charged via the grid, which is still efficient, as well as cost saving, compared to fuel.
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Kryptos
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: suicideprevention]
#28013862 - 10/24/22 10:44 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: EVs result in less green house gasses over the lifetime of the vehicle. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Quote:
suicideprevention said: Iβm curious to find reputable, unbiased statistics on how much carbon is emitted when mining for the metals to build a battery. Also what happens when battery life is depleted. As far as I know, batteries canβt be recycled very easily
When I was looking at buying a new vehicle, calculating for an average cost of gas ~3$, a hybrid and a gas only vehicle end up costing roughly the same for the first 100k miles when comparing fuel savings versus higher up front cost of the hybrid. If gas is over 3$ a gallon, or if you drive more than 100k miles, a hybrid becomes cheaper over time.
I assume that the backend pollution stats are about the same.
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Ice9
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28013941 - 10/24/22 11:50 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Pretty sure that economically EV are more expensive than hybrids for total cost of ownership. Just purely with regards to carbon footprint EVs get better the longer they are owned as burning gas is the biggest contributor to carbon by far and keeps growing the more miles driven.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014031 - 10/24/22 12:45 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I like EVs and solar but I hate the hate towards carbon. Just cuz carbon is 666 doesn't mean it deserves to be hated so.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 1
#28014035 - 10/24/22 12:47 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone hates carbon. Carbon is a key element of all life. Tacos al Carbon are amazing. It's carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is a big problem.
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28014038 - 10/24/22 12:49 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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But is CO2 really the problem? it's less than 1% of the atmosphere. If levels were to begin dropping exponentially not only would we be fucked, but pretty much all life would be, including plants.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014046 - 10/24/22 12:50 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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There's no danger of that, though. The fact that it's a small portion of the atmosphere is the very reason that humans have been able to make such a large impact on the concentration of CO2. If it were 90% of the atmosphere, we'd have proportionally made no change.
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28014051 - 10/24/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Perhaps you are right. I hope so. Too often humans try to fix a problem and end up created a much worse problem. Part of me can imagine a future where CO2 is continuously reduced to the point of no return. Considering its less than 1% we don't really have a lot of room for error.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014058 - 10/24/22 12:55 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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At this point, we can't even take out the extra CO2 we put in the atmosphere. The chances of us accidentally taking out too much are much lower than the chances of an extinction level asteroid strike on the planet.
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014066 - 10/24/22 01:01 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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You might be right about that one. Though I think the 'aliens' might help us out with that. If they don't cause it.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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koods
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014421 - 10/24/22 04:35 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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All I know is without changing my driving habits, switching to a Honda Accord from a Prius has cost me a lot more in gas money. Itβs not even close how much more fuel the accord uses than the Prius. The Prius was also by far the lowest maintenance car Iβve ever had. There was literally nothing seriously wrong with it for 18 years
Edited by koods (10/24/22 04:38 PM)
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods]
#28014427 - 10/24/22 04:38 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Why'd you switch back?
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014432 - 10/24/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Because the Prius was 18 years old and I inherited a practically new accord
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NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
Edited by koods (10/24/22 04:39 PM)
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koods
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods]
#28014452 - 10/24/22 04:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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The lack of a set standard for charging stations is going to be a big problem if every company is going to use their own setup. Itβs hard enough finding stations without worrying about whether the plug will fit in your car
--------------------
NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
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336
menehune


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods]
#28014462 - 10/24/22 04:52 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Makes sense. Yeah I'm surprised they haven't already instituted some type of standard in that regard. I mean we have standards for electrical plugs in general; seems only rational they'd do the same for EV chargers. Especially if they are serious about banning regular cars by 2040 or 2050; whichever it is. Probably only a matter of time.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28014473 - 10/24/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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For the most part, all the vehicles will charge from any station except tesla. There are different plugs, but the stations work for either typically.
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Psilynut2
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28015623 - 10/25/22 09:02 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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I feel like charging stations are going to have to be the size of mall parking lots to accommodate everyone having an electric car . Everyone spends allot of time parked at them , the small ones are usually full , I see that being a real challenge .
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Kryptos
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28015772 - 10/25/22 11:31 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
336 said: But is CO2 really the problem? it's less than 1% of the atmosphere. If levels were to begin dropping exponentially not only would we be fucked, but pretty much all life would be, including plants.
0.1% concentration of CO2 in the air impairs human decision making on par with a two beer buzz.
1% CO2 concentration in the air causes respiratory acidosis. This results in confusion, delusions, delirium, involuntary convulsions, excessive fatigue, and for people that are not healthy, coma and death.
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Bubbaluch
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28015787 - 10/25/22 11:45 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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The simple and most "correct" answer is it depends on where in the world you live and what type of energy is being used to create the power to charge.
Simply too many variables to give a correct answer. The answer is yes and no depending on the many variables that go into producing efficient energy.
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Psilynut2]
#28015801 - 10/25/22 11:54 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: I feel like charging stations are going to have to be the size of mall parking lots to accommodate everyone having an electric car . Everyone spends allot of time parked at them , the small ones are usually full , I see that being a real challenge .
More people will have them at home, so there will be less need to charge at a station.
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MagicMush123
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28017793 - 10/26/22 03:35 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Yes. Most countries produce electricity through combustion, usually through coal or gas which means most electric cars are being powered through fossil fuels. Not to mention all the fossil fuels needed to mine all the materials for their batteries. Not really sure why it matters though since the incentive to go electric is to save money on fuel which is almost offset by the 20% average mark up price on your new ride. Not sure why everyone is jumping on fully electric cars either. I think hybrids are the optimal car. Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car? Imagine you're going on a road trip or traveling somewhere and having to stop 4 hrs somewhere charge your car (if you can even find a charging station) when you could simply fill up your car with gas and keep going on? Thats what's so great about gas, the convenience. Which is why i think cars should be hybrid to have the best of both worlds; using electric while its available to save money on short trips and gas while on long trips or if the electricity is out, etc.
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koods
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: MagicMush123]
#28017812 - 10/26/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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It is still more efficient to use fossil fuels to generate electricity and use that electricity to power an electric motor in a car than run the car on fossil fuels.
The real advantage of hybrids and electrics is the kinetic energy of the car is not wasted. That energy is used to charge the batteries
--------------------
NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
Edited by koods (10/26/22 03:46 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: MagicMush123]
#28017813 - 10/26/22 03:43 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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4 hours to charge is a thing of the past.
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MagicMush123
moon person



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods]
#28017823 - 10/26/22 03:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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We're not talking about efficiency. We're talking about convenience.
just noticed your edit and thats not true.
Edited by MagicMush123 (10/26/22 03:51 PM)
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koods
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28017824 - 10/26/22 03:49 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Teslas can charge at 120,000 watts. Thatβs three times the capacity of your average home.
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NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: MagicMush123]
#28017827 - 10/26/22 03:51 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said: We're not talking about efficiency. We're talking about convenience
Can you fuel your gas car at home?
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NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
Edited by koods (10/26/22 03:52 PM)
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Kryptos
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: MagicMush123]
#28017896 - 10/26/22 04:34 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28017914 - 10/26/22 04:44 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Does your horse drawn hybrid vehicle have pedals so you ride it like a bike if thereβs no gas, no electricity and no horse?
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NotSheekle said βif I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to herβ
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28017942 - 10/26/22 04:56 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
Never mind the fact that his whole premise is fucked up. Hybrids don't have two options for power. They have one. They run on Gasoline. The electric part of it isn't something you can fill and run on. Plug in hybrids have that option, but even those need to have gas in the tank or your fuct.
Dude's all kinds of fucked up.
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MagicMush123
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28017986 - 10/26/22 05:11 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
This is why nobody takes the left seriously. When in disagreement they offer no imput and just ridicule. If you have nothing of substance to say why say anything?
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
Never mind the fact that his whole premise is fucked up. Hybrids don't have two options for power. They have one. They run on Gasoline. The electric part of it isn't something you can fill and run on. Plug in hybrids have that option, but even those need to have gas in the tank or your fuct.
Dude's all kinds of fucked up.
I wasn't talking about current hybrid cars. I was saying they should make a hybrid car that could run on both instead of focusing on making cars that are dependent on one. If you disagree then whatever
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Kryptos
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: MagicMush123]
#28017993 - 10/26/22 05:13 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Does your horse drawn hybrid vehicle have pedals so you ride it like a bike if thereβs no gas, no electricity and no horse?
Hell no, that just adds another point of failure if the pedals break! We need to go back to Flinstones tech. All this gas shit is way too complicated and prone to breaking down.
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
This is why nobody takes the left seriously. When in disagreement they offer no imput and just ridicule. If you have nothing of substance to say why say anything?
I said something that is of similar substance to your argument. I actually improved on the substance of your argument by adding a third power source to a vehicle. If two is better than one, then three has to be better than two.
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Ice9
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Kryptos]
#28019861 - 10/27/22 05:25 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
koods said: Does your horse drawn hybrid vehicle have pedals so you ride it like a bike if thereβs no gas, no electricity and no horse?
Hell no, that just adds another point of failure if the pedals break! We need to go back to Flinstones tech. All this gas shit is way too complicated and prone to breaking down.
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Id much rather have the option of running my car on gas and electricity rather than only electric. Why would you want 1 point of failure when you could have two? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car?
I'd much rather have the option of running my car on a horse and gas and electricity rather than only electric and gas. Why would you want 2 points of failure when you could have three? And why would you want to handicap yourself with having to charge your car or fill your gas tank?
It would be stupid to buy a car that doesn't have the ability to be harnessed to a horse.
This is why nobody takes the left seriously. When in disagreement they offer no imput and just ridicule. If you have nothing of substance to say why say anything?
I said something that is of similar substance to your argument. I actually improved on the substance of your argument by adding a third power source to a vehicle. If two is better than one, then three has to be better than two.
It's called reductio ad absurdum. It shows your original argument of it's better to have 2 points of failure is fallacious by continuing that argument to it's logical conclusion. The fact that you recognize "leftists" use this argument against you but you don't understand the argument speaks volumes about you.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Ice9] 1
#28135355 - 01/11/23 01:03 PM (1 year, 16 days ago) |
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I think people that have expensive electric cars should at least plug there cars into their own electric bill.
I see those electric car charging stations popping up everywhere. The state government is giving them out to small town govts here. But, its usually only a few people, for instance, the mayor who put it there, who has a $100,000 car that uses it. So they do not have to pay for gasoline, but instead tax everyone else in town. Green or not, its more being used as an embezzlement plot. There's usually some catch to free things, when government is involved.
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28135480 - 01/11/23 03:03 PM (1 year, 16 days ago) |
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You realize that charging isn't free, right?
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stevo

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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28138251 - 01/13/23 04:38 PM (1 year, 14 days ago) |
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That was the point I was trying to make.
The only person that uses all of our stolen money is the mayor in his fancy ass car that nobody else can afford.
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Brian Jones
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28138268 - 01/13/23 04:52 PM (1 year, 14 days ago) |
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The average price of public rapid charging increased by 58% since May 2022.
So as we get rid of the oil companies, it's going to be meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Unless there is some tech breakthrough, I wonder if it's even going to be that much better environmentally.
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336
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28139923 - 01/14/23 05:33 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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I think a major problem that steveo brought up is that EVs are still nowhere near affordable for the majority of the nation, which is currently in poverty. Hundreds of millions of people in America (which is supposed to be one of the richest nations) can barely afford to buy a 20 year old used car, let alone an EV.
If the government started handing out free EV vehicles to poorer people everyone would start to use them. I would.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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ballsalsa
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336]
#28140264 - 01/14/23 08:58 PM (1 year, 13 days ago) |
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I wish I could afford to sell my 20 year old used cars. I've got a dope 98 conversion van but it's such a bitch to work on. I pretty much have to disassemble the whole fucking car to change a spark plug and the thing has like 500 miles of heater hose that I know I'm gonna have to change any day
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28140331 - 01/14/23 09:35 PM (1 year, 12 days ago) |
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Both my daily drivers are late 80s....351w Crown Vic and 87 5.0 Marquis. Never been under a 98 Van but all I can tell you replacing a heater core involves the complete disassembly of the entire dashboard to even dream of reaching the plenum. It's like the entire car was assembled around it. If you do those hoses, might as well do the vac lines and check valves. Pressure test the hoses and core before reassembly....because I have had some bad out of the box and had to redo the whole thing.....insanity.
-------------------- βI must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.β
Edited by SirTripAlot (01/14/23 09:42 PM)
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ballsalsa
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#28140413 - 01/14/23 10:29 PM (1 year, 12 days ago) |
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Those ram vans are built such that you're sitting over the motor, basically. The lower dash comes away easily with latches and a lot of work has to be done from the cab. Right now I need to get down to the water pump (again) because I neglected to order the gasket the first time and tried to get away with just high temp rtv silicone which lasted about 35 miles before it catastrophically leaked. This means taking the fucker apart from the radiator, back until I can get the pump off
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starfire_xes
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28140957 - 01/15/23 10:12 AM (1 year, 12 days ago) |
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Plants absorb carbon and produce oxygen. It comes from the atmosphere. Humans breath oxygen and produce carbon dioxide. Burning coal or gas produces CO2. You change can install scrubbers for co2.
The catalyst would be lithium dioxide or lithium3 nitride.
Edited by starfire_xes (01/15/23 10:22 AM)
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iggyhiggy
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: starfire_xes]
#28142245 - 01/16/23 02:47 AM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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I think EV cost (in term of power/fuel and CO2 footprint) slightly less, over their whole lifespan, than combustion ones. but including their production and all processes involved, i think the gain is small if not negligible. But i don't think reliable infos are still avalaible over the whole process (i mean including every small detail, included ones nobody has thought yet).
What i think is EV are not a good solution, they are like hiding the dirt under the carpet: my point is that what is not sustainable is what i call the individual motorization, ie the fact that every single person demand to have an engine under his ass, 1000 or more kilograms of steel and liters of fuel (or wind produced watts, wich changes little imo) just to carry around (often for few kilometers or less) his 70-80 kg of meat and bones wich - let's remind it - are perfectly selfpropelled.
I believe that even if more effective EV are the wrong path if they are intended for individual use. Wasted resources, and more atomization (individualization) of society.
Plus, EV are more dangerous: they silently get at your back and you can't hear them before they run on you.
My 2 cents as a pedal-biker.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28142599 - 01/16/23 10:09 AM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
stevo said: That was the point I was trying to make.
The only person that uses all of our stolen money is the mayor in his fancy ass car that nobody else can afford.
Again, charging isn't free. The mayor, if he has an electric car, pays the company that owns the charger for the use of it and the electricity. He's not getting anything for free.
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stevo

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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil] 1
#28142659 - 01/16/23 10:41 AM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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My question here to you is, says who?
If the town pays for a town hall, and somehow that town hall has to be paid for by electricity, and then suddenly a private charger is installed there, and its in the boonies, and then the electric bill is hundreds or thousands of dollars a month more, and then everyone's tax suddenly doubles...
I have investigated this and other things before, and it seems when anyone ever complains they get harassment from police or some other negative reinforcer to leave them alone and then rig the next election and more or less irritate everyone away from their cult building. Not saying all town have a govt that are like that, but once such ideas are put in action, its not just as easy as going and knocking on the guys door and telling him to stop freeloading. I'm offended to see such a thing happening in town halls everywhere I go and is so non community.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28142779 - 01/16/23 12:16 PM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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That's a lot of ifs. Whose tax doubled? What electric car requires hundreds of thousands of dollars per month in electricity?
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christopera
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: ballsalsa]
#28142809 - 01/16/23 12:38 PM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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I think heβs saying the places that offer βfreeβ charging pay that. It may be true, but I doubt it. Industrial supplies are much cheaper than common household supply. Itβs not really any of his business what they spend to get rich people to park at their facilities though. Even if it is the local or federal government doing it, all he has to do is vote.
Electric cars are much more simple than ICE counterparts. They are more reliable as a result. This is why Elon decided against an independent dealer network. Dealers rely on maintenance to make money. Those margins are significantly less with an electric car. So he had to keep it a top down sale method as the dealers wouldnβt survive. Anyways, as all of this scales it will get more lean, cheaper, and even better. Look at the progress of Tesla over the last decade. The big manufacturers knew everything they had to learn aside from taking the total electric risk. My VW is arguably as nice as a Tesla in many ways, but it cost 1/4 as much. Lotβs of progress to be made in this industry.
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Enlil
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28142937 - 01/16/23 02:04 PM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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You haven't investigated shit. Nothing you have said makes any sense. The chargers are owned by a company that pays a lease to the property owner and pays the electricity. The people who use the chargers pay the company that owns the chargers.
You are just making shit up, dude.
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stevo

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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: Enlil]
#28143478 - 01/16/23 06:46 PM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: You haven't investigated shit. Nothing you have said makes any sense. The chargers are owned by a company that pays a lease to the property owner and pays the electricity. The people who use the chargers pay the company that owns the chargers.
You are just making shit up, dude.
Well I'm not going to sound like a boomer here, Id like to see a greener alternative to internal combustion in time. But I do not believe you that they are choosing to put these things at a town hall vs their own house, when only they are using them, in an honest way. I can speak for the town I live in and say for certain you are incorrect.
I could go and stir shit up down there and reveal my location to prove this to you, maybe in PM. You have no way of knowing for sure that someone elses charger in another town you live in. I have seen these bad apples do some really dishonest things with money and have a criminal history of stealing from town to town, like millions and I'm sure you've known some bad politicians. I'd rather not concern myself with this stupid charging station, since in some way form or another I believe the cost of living here consists of fabricated expenses to make it more like a supply and demand thing, where if you dont like paying X, you can move down the road and still pay X.
Our town in particular has a govt that has historically been somewhat of a sarcastic joke historically, not really having much function but to get the trash picked up, and thats about it. I really miss the good ole days. Everyone participated in helping the town.
Its pretty easy to start a cult though, like we have now, if you just feel like moving in for some money to steal, and plan on moving out afterwords to the next small town. Especially if you already have a felony criminal history of embezzlement , you really have nothing to lose. Its easy to underestimate how much damage can be done to by small town officials. I don't think you'll find many legal professionals in a room full of regular country folks.
I bet there is some kind of catch to this too. Like Ive noticed state senators hanging out down there, an insane amount of stuff purchased to make it something like a redneck white house, and I'm sure there is a nice tax writeoff, as an award for not paying their share to drive around.
So I do not mean to ramble on about this, but the charging station here and in other neighborhoods known to be managed by greedy crooks, I'm really not seeing this as generosity but the opposite. There are givers and takers. Little small towns in the boonies are vulnerable to the worst corruption, and only so many poor people drive their gas cars to work to pay these rich people.
Sometimes I can't tell if you're trolling or just have too much trust in government, or not wanting to be wrong about incidents you don't know about. The little bit of energy is spent on the undeserving isn't the end of the world, and do not stress about this specific issue, but I do not believe they are being generous in the case of my town. It does not align with the criminal behavior I've observed from them. It is why I ask, "says who?" because its really hard for 99% of the town to do anything about.
I think in the next few days, I will go look up the company and try my best to find out where these charging stations are installed at a town hall, and compare to how many people in that town drive an electric car. I'm betting its close to a 1:1 ratio with nearly nobody in town having any say on it. Maybe I can make a map.
I did talk about this with the mayor in a nonchalant way. He says he doesn't pay the electric. He's too much of a blatant lie box to really be interested in having a full conversation about it. I'm not sure how commonly this is being used, but efficient embezzlement is just embezzlement.
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oursoulsinmotion
π΅πππ


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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: 336] 1
#28143512 - 01/16/23 07:16 PM (1 year, 11 days ago) |
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Beta men drive ev's
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: oursoulsinmotion]
#28149051 - 01/20/23 01:53 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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Exactly, and they are ugly
Green energy = stolen energy
Sustainable means recycled garbage.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28149119 - 01/20/23 02:42 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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Some businesses offer free chargers, but that is really just used as an incentive to bring in business. Most chargers you have to pay for the electricity. I think Tesla has a lot of free chargers for Teslas, which is just a sales technique.
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christopera
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods] 1
#28149169 - 01/20/23 03:15 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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The dude clearly has no idea how any of this works.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things Iβm sorry it had to be me.
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koods
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: christopera]
#28149212 - 01/20/23 03:50 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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The free chargers are crap. They deliver about 3000 - 5000 watts, which would take a day to fully charge an EV and uses about $0.45 per hour of electricity
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: koods]
#28149427 - 01/20/23 06:38 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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I wonder how what kind of bitcoins one could mine from these stations, lol
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: stevo]
#28149449 - 01/20/23 06:48 PM (1 year, 7 days ago) |
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You are probably right
Power/hours or kilowatt hours. = cost.
So. How much does it really cost?

Charged a long time or a short for the same power,no. They will be the same cost.
Edited by starfire_xes (01/20/23 06:53 PM)
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stevo

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 5,100
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Re: Do Electric Vehicles actually use less power/fuel to make & use? [Re: starfire_xes]
#28156599 - 01/25/23 07:34 AM (1 year, 2 days ago) |
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For the most part, assuming the meters are accurate and they are honest, you pay for when its being used. But don't confuse here, power is measure of energy being transferred at that instant. KWh can be thought of like a cumulative sum. Its like how many gallons of water you actually wasted. Unlike the flow rate of the water, we're counting how long you had the spigot on.
Sometimes the power company will even negotiate on price with large commercial operations given some restraints about the time of usage. Feedmills and chicken farms for example sometimes run at night and have a backup generator as part of the contract. Especially when there are 2 power companies competing.
The types of places like malls and govt buildings where these things are popping up and its more or less a gimmick at this point just aren't really wired up for that kind of power consumption which I think was the point koods was making.
Most standard households are ran with mostly 12guage wire on a 15 amp breaker and a limit of 1500 watts is a good rule of thumb. 120v*15a=1800watts (ohms law) Kitchens are usually wired with 10 guage and a 20 amp breaker for a little more heavier load from a refridgerator.
I just googled this and it sounds about right. 10 gauge wire is typically rated to handle up to 30 amps, or approximately 7200 watts at 240 volts.
I don't think we'll be seeing public charging stations become mainstream anytime soon. Would our current power grid even be heavy duty enough for it?
Question: what exactly would be be needed to make a car that can handle ethanol without tearing it up? Aside emitting greenhouse gas, though lowered a little, it seems much more doable and reliable. Wouldn't that be a better green idea since it would require less costly modification to vehicle design, and maybe more effectively reduce carbon emission just by being more affordable and doable. I don't hear a lot about biodiesel anymore either. Soy and corn are such plentiful crops in the United states and its a shame so much goes to waste or to make junk food instead with it.
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