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Offlinecozmyc
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27992979 - 10/10/22 10:49 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Rip James Randi


--------------------
You're conscious population 2 stardust
----------------------
and that's valuable :sunny:


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OfflineBoySage
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: cozmyc]
    #27993051 - 10/11/22 12:50 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I do understand that view, but people have come to know things without the scientific method. The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.

Once again I'd like to mention that an experienced tripper would have a keen sense for set and setting and is therefore unlikely to neglect those factors, when coming up with such a list. You can rule out confirmation bias to an extent in that case.

Placebo and biases are very real, even when it comes to science itself, which is why theories get overthrown and disproven. The initial instinct is always of a philosophical nature. Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."

We are interested in things first, then we study them, or invent shit, or whatever. I think "cube's a cube" is a sort of limiting statement that hardly serves any purpose in that context and there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.


--------------------
New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying :wink:

Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
    #27993133 - 10/11/22 04:13 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I think the larger point is that the genetics are too complex to reduce it down to "Cubans are fun party shrooms" or anything like that. Not to mention variation in cultivation techniques.

If I spend any time at all taking clones and working up different cultures from a given "strain," then my version of that "strain" will be different from anyone else's.

If I grow and harvest in a particular way, that may further influence things like potency, "body load," etc.

Delivery method also influences an experience, particularly via speed of onset.

Growing is a science, for better or worse. This isn't people clamoring for perfect clinical trials. It's people relaying their own first-hand experience paired with knowledge of biology.


--------------------
Beware of advice- even this.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] * 1
    #27993135 - 10/11/22 04:14 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoySage said:
I do understand that view, but people have come to know things without the scientific method. The scientific method is there to prove things people already had their suspicions about.




Which is perfect for this since we're suspicious about it. What do we know without the scientific method btw?

Quote:

BoySage said:
Once again I'd like to mention that an experienced tripper would have a keen sense for set and setting and is therefore unlikely to neglect those factors, when coming up with such a list. You can rule out confirmation bias to an extent in that case.





That's a lot of assumptions but not any reason to rule out confirmation bias or placebo effect.


Quote:

BoySage said:
Placebo and biases are very real, even when it comes to science itself, which is why theories get overthrown and disproven. The initial instinct is always of a philosophical nature. Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."




We have indeed proved the stars aren't a hallucination.

Quote:

BoySage said:


We are interested in things first, then we study them, or invent shit, or whatever. I think "cube's a cube" is a sort of limiting statement that hardly serves any purpose in that context and there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.



Nothing limiting about it and a perfect candidate for being examined by the scientific method.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflineB Traven
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] * 4
    #27993139 - 10/11/22 04:26 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoySage said:
there's no marketing machine going on in this forum that needs to be throttled.




Not necessarily, no, but there's lots of room for wild rumors and stupid cultivation practices to develop legs and run amok.

We have to deal with shit like people asking why their bag of microwavable rice isn't working out.

A couple months ago, I met someone who started talking about how they heard that after doing acid 3 times, you have brain damage. Also brought up all the old urban legends about Syd Barrett. They thought that the active ingredient in psilocybes was also LSD.

"Which strain is good for visuals" is a milder version of that, but given peoples' tendency to draw false correlations and then defend them to the death, it's an area that's ripe for the development and spread of misinformation. Not "untested" information- straight-up wrong-headed shit that flies in the face of other people's personal experiences.


--------------------
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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #27993143 - 10/11/22 04:35 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cozmyc said:
Rip James Randi



In the spirit of Mr Randi, I'm offering up my entire spore library to anyone that can

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment,




--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


Edited by SirPsycho (10/11/22 04:42 AM)


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #27993152 - 10/11/22 04:47 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

That's 25+ different active species. That number does not include the multiple varities of cubensis or Pan cyan, which were both only counted once.

Come get it.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflineKROM
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 3
    #27993191 - 10/11/22 06:01 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)



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OfflineBoySage
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27993603 - 10/11/22 11:41 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

This is an interesting discussion and very revealing. We might be dealing with a "differences in personality types"-situation.

As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practices, which I highly agree with. Even with very limited understanding of the craft itself, I can identify what you're trying to get accross in terms of cultivation.

I'm not sure whether we're arguing simantics SirPsycho, but
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
We have indeed proved the stars aren't a hallucination.



seems to me to enforce my point. I'll provide a hypothetical scenario to illustrate:

Let's say we take a serious look at those personal accounts and experiences, gather them together and start comparing notes. What we might well find is certain tendencies, which are reproduceable i.e. people finding Cubans to be fun party shrooms after all. At that point scientific analysis and scrutiny can productively enter the conversation, because it actually has something to look at. (Here's where I'm in over my head, because I don't know what exactly it would look for, maybe something we don't know at this point. Possibly some sort of specific synergistic interaction of compounds - don't get hung up on this!)

Point is "cube's a cube" can be just as much of a limiting statement as "doing acid 3 times causes brain damage". It might be intended to help either way, but that doesn't make it more right or wrong, it's always both.

Whatever is believed/accepted to be true today, might be proven wrong tomorrow and in that sense I find it limiting. I believe we should both encourage such efforts and at the same time warning about pitfalls, not either or.

For one person to collect the wealth of experience to being able to identify 25 different varieties by the trip they caused is wayyy out there. But if one person had a database to start from, and maybe try 5-10 of those a couple of times to validate the experience, another does the same with 2-3 overlapping, etc. etc. that might produce something to be taken seriously after a while.

Of course you could still throw the placebo/confirmation bias in there, but at that point you'd have to literally put it everywhere, which I would personally agree with. To quote Alan Watts (probably not perfectly): "The universe has to run away from us, because we keep looking for it."

I simply see no need to extinguish the flame of interest, before it has even started to kindle.

Anyways... I'll start with the fucking Transkei and see what it's all about and if confirmation bias/placebo consistently produce the best trips of my life, I'm quite happy as well :freewilly:


--------------------
New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying :wink:

Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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OfflineThe Mycologist
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #27993615 - 10/11/22 11:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

The potency varies insanely though. Thats where they differ from shroom to shroom trip to trip.


--------------------
"That you are here—that life exists, and identity;
That the powerful play goes on, and you will contribute a verse.”
― Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass
:acidfire::tmckenna:


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
    #27993646 - 10/11/22 12:09 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoySage said:
As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice

:



No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.

Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.

I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: The Mycologist]
    #27993650 - 10/11/22 12:10 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
The potency varies insanely though. Thats where they differ from shroom to shroom trip to trip.



Don't see anyone arguing potency. They are arguing "euphoria" and "body load"


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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Offlinecozmyc
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho] * 1
    #27993656 - 10/11/22 12:14 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

cozmyc said:
Rip James Randi



In the spirit of Mr Randi, I'm offering up my entire spore library to anyone that can

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
shows they can consistently identify the variety by the trip alone, I.E. blinded experiment,







Surely someone can prove their wits 😉


--------------------
You're conscious population 2 stardust
----------------------
and that's valuable :sunny:


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Offlinecozmyc
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: cozmyc] * 1
    #27993658 - 10/11/22 12:17 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm all down for serious controlled experiments. Sign me up.
:nomnomnom:


--------------------
You're conscious population 2 stardust
----------------------
and that's valuable :sunny:


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OfflineBoySage
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
    #27993671 - 10/11/22 12:27 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

BoySage said:
As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice

:



No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.

Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.

I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.



Obviously trying to adress multiple posters in here. I think you're being overly specific (that was the personality-type statement), in that you require exact identification out of the gate, when I believe narrowing it down to a couple of varieties would be sufficient proof of the differences, because many still share main traits. Such as "judging by the euphoric body high and factor#2 & #3, I think this must be either A or B, maybe C, but definitely not X, Y or Z."


--------------------
New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying :wink:

Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage]
    #27993678 - 10/11/22 12:32 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoySage said:
Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

BoySage said:
As I said, I believe I understand where you're coming from. I know this statement is mainly useful for cultivation practice

:



No, you really don't. I never said anything about mainly cultivation practices. I've been challenging the idea that they cause different trips.

Your hypothetical scenario is rife with opportunities for placebos and confirmation bias.

I'm not trying to extinguish any flame of curiosity. I'm challenging anyone and everyone to show me they can reliably distinguish between varities by trip only.



Obviously trying to adress multiple posters in here. I think you're being overly specific (that was the personality-type statement), in that you require exact identification out of the gate, when I believe narrowing it down to a couple of varieties would be sufficient proof of the differences, because many still share main traits. Such as "judging by the euphoric body high and factor#2 & #3, I think this must be either A or B, maybe C, but definitely not X, Y or Z."



No, I don't require exact ID right out of the gate. I just require reliable results and blinded testing.

Take as much time as you need to build your database. When you're ready pick 2 (or however many varities you want) and sample them in a blinded experiment then report your results.


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflineKROM
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: BoySage] * 4
    #27993805 - 10/11/22 02:00 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoySage said:
Imagine monkeys looking up at the sky and saying: "Fuck that, no double-blind, placebo controlled study ever proved stars aren't just a hallucination, I'm getting outta here."







--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿


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OfflineCJD
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: maxmush]
    #28003102 - 10/17/22 01:17 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary.  I'd watch it.


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OfflineSirPsycho
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: CJD] * 1
    #28003146 - 10/17/22 01:48 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

CJD said:
I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary.  I'd watch it.



"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"


--------------------
:pm:Ask me about free Ps tampanesis, Ps subtropicalis and Ps cubensis (ESS) prints:pm:
Balance in life is like running on ice.

  🅑🅞🅣🅣🅛🅔 🅖🅐🅝🅖

"Mist your balls and fan your asshole" - Pandaskis, 2023


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OfflineCJD
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Re: For those that still believe a "cube is a cube"... [Re: SirPsycho]
    #28003409 - 10/17/22 04:51 PM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SirPsycho said:
Quote:

CJD said:
I would love to see this play out. Someone should turn this into a documentary.  I'd watch it.



"Put up or shut up: why a cube is a cube" a SirPsycho production... From the makers of "I bet I can grow cubes on that"




I'd watch that one too... has it been released?


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