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Invisibleafoaf
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why did we invade iraq, again?
    #2798524 - 06/16/04 11:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so if it wasn't the WMDs and it wasn't complicity
in 9/11, why did we do it?
==================================

9/11 panel: No al Qaeda cooperation with Iraq

Wednesday, June 16, 2004 Posted: 11:56 AM EDT (1556 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The panel investigating the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks found "no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States," according to a staff report issued on Wednesday.

The report contradicts statements from the Bush administration that Saddam Hussein had ties to al Qaeda.

In response, a senior administration official traveling with President Bush in Tampa, Florida, said, "We stand by what Powell and Tenet have said," referring to previous statements by Secretary of State Colin Powell and CIA Director George Tenet that described such links.

Bush and Vice President Cheney have made comments in recent days alleging such ties. (Full story)

The commission's report says Osama bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to (Saddam) Hussein's secular regime. Bin Laden had in fact at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan.

"The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded bin Laden to cease this support and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda."

A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting bin Laden in 1994.

Bin Laden is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded.

"There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship," the report said.

"Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied" any relationship, the report said.

The report also found that there was no "convincing evidence that any government financially supported al Qaeda before 9/11" other than the limited support provided by the Taliban when bin Laden arrived in Afghanistan.

The toppling of the Taliban regime "fundamentally changed" al Qaeda, leaving it decentralized and altering Osama bin Laden's role.

Prior to the attacks, bin Laden approved all al Qaeda operations and often chose targets and the operatives involved himself.

"After al Qaeda lost Afghanistan after 9/11, it fundamentally changed. The organization is far more decentralized. Bin Laden's seclusion forced operational commanders and cell leaders to assume greater authority; they are now making the command decisions previously made by him," the report said.

The commission is holding its last hearings Wednesday and Thursday.

Among those testifying at Wednesday's hearing were officials from the FBI and the U.S. Attorney's Office, as well as a number of CIA officials, who will not be identified to protect their anonymity should they be sent on overseas assignments in the future.
Al Qaeda seeking nuclear weapons

The commission said that al Qaeda was still seeking to obtain a nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.

Al Qaeda "remains interested in using a radiological dispersal device or 'dirty bomb,' a conventional explosive designed to spread radioactive material," the commission said.

The report said that al Qaeda may also seek to launch a chemical attack using widely-available chemicals or by attacking a chemical plant or chemical shipments.

The commission also said stdhat Tenet testified that a possible anthrax attack is "one of the most immediate threats the United States is likely to face."
Al Qaeda funding

Al Qaeda's funding came primarily from a fund-raising network, not business enterprises or bin Laden's personal fortune. Bin Laden owned some businesses and other assets in Sudan, but "most were small or not economically viable." The report says bin Laden "never received a $300 million inheritance," but from 1970 until approximately 1994 received about $1 million a year.

The commission found that Saudi Arabia was a rich fund-raising ground for al Qaeda, but that it had found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or senior officials within the Saudi government funded al Qaeda.

The group distributed the money as quickly as it was raised, with much of the money going to the Taliban for its operations in Afghanistan.

The CIA estimates that al Qaeda spent $30 million each year on expenses including terrorist operations, salaries and maintenance on terrorist training camps.

Its largest expense was payments to the Taliban, which was an estimated $10 million to $20 million per year.

The commission estimated that the September 11 attacks cost between $400,000 and $500,000, plus the cost of training the 19 hijackers in Afghanistan.


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Anonymous

Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2798540 - 06/16/04 12:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

'no credible evidence'
makes me think of a man being shot dead and as long as we don't find a gun his rotting corpse is just a figment of our imagination

um to free the iraqis from a ruthless dictator who had a penchant for mincing machines maybe


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2798555 - 06/16/04 12:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

o-i-l


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OfflineRedo
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2798568 - 06/16/04 12:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Or the 17 violations since the cease fire that the UN wouldnt do anything about.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2798570 - 06/16/04 12:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Remember the famous words of the dishonest one tho...you can't prove the WMD arn't there.. :blah:


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OfflineRedo
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2798581 - 06/16/04 12:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

WMD's arent the only reason, and you can prove they had them (at least to the world), but you cant prove where they went (to the same world).


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Redo]
    #2798824 - 06/16/04 01:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

and you can prove they had them (at least to the world)

Certainly we knew he had chemical weaponry 15-20 years ago because the US was supplying him with weapons grade anthrax etc.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2798833 - 06/16/04 01:37 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

if we're in the business of waging costly and deadly wars
in the name of freeing people from brutal dictators or to
punish UN violations, then why are we employing evil
dictators in this war (turkey, uzbekistand, etc) all the
while flouting the UN's stance?

where's the logic in that?

(edit: typo)


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Edited by afoaf (06/16/04 01:38 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2798901 - 06/16/04 01:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yep i hear you,its a strange world ill never understand,i myself would rather they all ate each other without us there but i have to follow my people/race like they do and support our troops and i agree it's about oil too but it's oil we won from two world wars,so why should we give it up to dictators who feed their armies with oil money and expect the world to feed their citizens with charity?
australia just wiped off a $800 mil wheat debt in a goodwill gesture to iraqs people
will they bomb us for it?i'm sure some of the terrorists children survived on that aussie wheat


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2799137 - 06/16/04 03:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

ask the aliens


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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Anonymous

Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: BleaK]
    #2799144 - 06/16/04 03:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

nah i'd rather deport them and bill the country that sent em


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2799336 - 06/16/04 03:48 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

um to free the iraqis from a ruthless dictator who had a penchant for mincing machines maybe




Where in the US Constitution does it say that the executive branch has the authority to be a global police force? Who asked for a US invasion?

If the US Federal government grew increasingly authoritarian, would you expect a foreign force whose cutoms and way of life were quite contrary to the American life to invade, destroy, and occupy our country for many years to come? Or would the burden be in the hands of the citizenry?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2799563 - 06/16/04 04:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'll ask yet again for you to demonstrate dishonesty

But you lack three things to do so.

Balls. Brains. And any dishonesty to show. (Except your own.)


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799642 - 06/16/04 05:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Wednesday, June 16, 2004 1:13 p.m. EDT
Media Mislead on 9/11 Commission Finding on Iraq-al Qaida Link

Reports Wednesday morning that the 9/11 Commission has determined there was no cooperation between Iraq and al-Qaida are completely false - and are undoubtedly driven by the media's determination to contradict the Bush administration's claims that such a link exists.

"9/11 Panel Says Iraq Rebuffed Bin Laden" reads the headline on the Associated Press report on today's Commission staff statement.

But that's not what the Commission staff report actually said.

The below passage, for instance, does more to confirm the Bush administration's claims of an Iraq-al Qaida link than it does to contradict them.

"The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Ladin* to cease [support for anti-Saddam Islamists in Northern Iraq] and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda*.

"A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Ladin in 1994. Bin Ladin is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 5]

Apparently never responded? How, pray tell, does the AP derive from those words the conclusive claim that Iraq "rebuffed" bin Laden?

The Commission statement continues:

"There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after Bin Ladin had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship."

What's the evidence for this less-than-conclusive surmise?

"Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq," says the Commission.

Such a statement begs the question: Why does the Commission, let alone the press, take the word of two senior bin Laden associates over, say, Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi.

Last December he told the London Telegraph, "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda."

Reacting to the discovery of an Iraqi intelligence document placing 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks, he continued:

"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."

In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al-Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States." [NewsMax italics]

Apparently Dr. Allawi's asssement counts for nothing.

Even so, it's worth noting that elsewhere in today's staff statement, the 9/11 Commission asserts:

"With al Qaeda at its foundation, Bin Ladin sought to build a broader Islamic Army that included terrorist groups from Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Oman, Tunisia, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Somalia, and Eritrea. Not all [terrorist] groups from these states agreed to join, but at least one from each did." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 3]

In other words, at least one terror group from Iraq did form an alliance with bin Laden.

Another problem: If the press is going to take today's staff statement as gospel, certain long-held media assumptions will need to be drastically revised, such as the widely accepted notion that al-Qaida was involved in the first World Trade Center bombing.

Not true, says the Commission.

"Whether Bin Ladin and his organization had roles in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center ... remains a matter of substantial uncertainty," the staff statement says, before insisting, "We have no conclusive evidence" of a bin Laden link. [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 6]

The same goes for "Operation Bojinka," the 1995 plot to hijack 12 airliners hatched by Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that experts say was the blueprint for the 9/11 attacks.

"[Mohammed] was not, however, an al Qaeda member at the time of the Manilla [Bojinka] plot," Commission staffers say, even though they acknowledge that he went on to mastermind the 9/11 attacks.

The press is furiously spinning the 9/11 Commission staff statement in a bid to discredit the Bush administration. Americans should go to the Sept. 11 Commission Web site and read the conclusions for themselves: http://www.9-11commission.gov/

* Commission spellings

web page


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2799700 - 06/16/04 05:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

The below passage, for instance, does more to confirm the Bush administration's claims of an Iraq-al Qaida link than it does to contradict them.

"The Sudanese, to protect their own ties with Iraq, reportedly persuaded Bin Ladin* to cease [support for anti-Saddam Islamists in Northern Iraq] and arranged for contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda*.

"A senior Iraqi intelligence officer reportedly made three visits to Sudan, finally meeting Bin Ladin in 1994. Bin Ladin is said to have requested space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but Iraq apparently never responded." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 5]


there may have been communication, or an attempt at partnership, but
those quotes indicate that nothing materialized.

rebuffed clearly wasn't the right word, though.


"Two senior Bin Ladin associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq," says the Commission.

Such a statement begs the question: Why does the Commission, let alone the press, take the word of two senior bin Laden associates over, say, Iraq's new prime minister, Iyad Allawi.

Last December he told the London Telegraph, "We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda."


all the parties involved seem to be 'well placed', but none seem to be
able to offer much in the way of firm evidence, so I don't necessarily
place weight with either source.

nevermind Allwahi's vested interest in puppeting the Whitehouse's
stance on the matter.

Reacting to the discovery of an Iraqi intelligence document placing 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks, he continued:

"This is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."


I don't see how Atta being in Baghdad definitively indicates that Saddam
and/or his regime were cooperating with the hijackers in any way shape
or form. He was also in Germany in the months prior, was Germany in
on the attacks also?

"With al Qaeda at its foundation, Bin Ladin sought to build a broader Islamic Army that included terrorist groups from Egypt, Libya, Saudi Arabia and Oman, Tunisia, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, Morocco, Somalia, and Eritrea. Not all [terrorist] groups from these states agreed to join, but at least one from each did." [Staff Statement No. 15, Page 3]

In other words, at least one terror group from Iraq did form an alliance with bin Laden.


well, one terror group, who can't be proven to be connected directly to
Iraq's government doesn't justify the Whitehouse's assertion that Iraq
was in on the deal. If that is justifiable, then we've got a couple other
countries to invade, don't we?

another pile of hyperbolic garbage from newsmax...

they're no better than the 'evil liberal media' they try so hard to
discredit.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799729 - 06/16/04 05:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not claiming there is a connection but many would disagree with your interpretation. NewsMax is but one of those.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Vvellum]
    #2799791 - 06/16/04 06:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Bio, your avatar is fucking me up. I always think it's LDS when I read your post. I saw the nipple out of the corner of my eye and then read the post. I thought "That's an anti-Bush post by LDS. What's going on?"






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Mp3 of the month:  The Looking Glasses - Visions



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OfflineRedo
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799813 - 06/16/04 06:11 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So its back to he lied, and no he didnt.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2799861 - 06/16/04 06:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Just look for the ring.

It makes him happy and he's hurting no-one.

Besides, I've made posts where I point out the flaws Bush has. If you haven't seen them, it's only because you don't want to.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Redo]
    #2799899 - 06/16/04 06:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you don't read well, do you?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Vvellum]
    #2799905 - 06/16/04 06:50 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)



Where in the US Constitution does it say that the executive branch has the authority to be a global police force? Who asked for a US invasion?

In this particular case the legislative branch authorized the use of force in Iraq at the discretion of the President. It was passed overwhelmingly and supported by, guess who, Kerry, D. Mass.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2799926 - 06/16/04 06:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

who'd have though Bush would have gone and fucked it up so bad....


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799938 - 06/16/04 07:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think that's disingenuous crap. The results have actually been better than any reasonable person could have expected. Action carries a price. Inaction carries a greater price.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2799944 - 06/16/04 07:04 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

disengenuous, no.

but I like using that word sometimes too.

the end results have yet to be seen.

remember, we were supposed to be greeted with
cheering iraqis in the streets, not improvised explosive
devices, kidnappings and murders.

what are these 'better than expected results' that
you speak of?

I mean, really?

what were you expecting and how is our current state
better than those expectations?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799965 - 06/16/04 07:15 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

10 times the casualties and a five year time period before we could leave. You're right, the end results have yet to be seen. But there have been some cheering Iraqis and there have been some bomb toting lunatics. Not a surprise in either direction actually. I just resent the tone that this has been an unrelenting disaster. It is simply not the case.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2799975 - 06/16/04 07:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

not a disaster on the scale of some of our past
failings, but things surely aren't going as well as
they were supposed to go.

plus, just because we hand off on the 30th, doesn't
mean we're out of iraq.

I'd be surprised if we're completely out after 5 years.

very, very surprised.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2799998 - 06/16/04 07:27 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, once again we go back to reasonable expectations. I know handing over on the 30th doesn't mean we're OUT out. Shit we're still not OUT of Japan or Korea or Germany. But being able to grant some significant sovereignty after less than 18 months is pretty good, I think.
We will be able to get out of Saudi Arabia though, since we were only there to counter Saddam's monopolistic threat, and that's a good thing. Let the fucking sheiks be hung by their own people. Then the revolutionaries will sell us the oil.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2800010 - 06/16/04 07:29 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

9/11 finding:

'In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al-Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."'


  :lol:

NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2800024 - 06/16/04 07:32 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

hopefully we get out of SA before johnson's head rolls...


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Offlined33p
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2800034 - 06/16/04 07:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CJay said:
9/11 findimg:

'In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al-Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."'


  :lol:

NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE




I think you stopped reading before the preposition in the quoted sentance.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2800038 - 06/16/04 07:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

  :zoom:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2800042 - 06/16/04 07:36 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

unfortunately, not likely, and it won't be for that reason.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: d33p]
    #2800046 - 06/16/04 07:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

'In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al-Qaida never cooperated.'
- so it says they co-operated.....wait, i feel a contradiction coming on:
-:next sentance:-
'What it does say is "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."'

NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE

C-JAY ->> :lol:




:lol: :lol: :lol:


Edited by CJay (06/16/04 07:40 PM)


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Offlined33p
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2800060 - 06/16/04 07:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I am guessing you have no grasp of grammar.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2800063 - 06/16/04 07:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Which is not the same thing as saying they never cooperated, is it?


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: d33p]
    #2800065 - 06/16/04 07:44 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

d33p said:
I am guessing you have no grasp of grammar.



That's quite apparent.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2800387 - 06/16/04 09:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In this particular case the legislative branch authorized the use of force in Iraq at the discretion of the President. It was passed overwhelmingly and supported by, guess who, Kerry, D. Mass.




yes, but under false & casual intelligence.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2800393 - 06/16/04 10:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bio, your avatar is fucking me up. I always think it's LDS when I read your post. I saw the nipple out of the corner of my eye and then read the post. I thought "That's an anti-Bush post by LDS. What's going on?"




I am luvdemshrooms.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Vvellum]
    #2800417 - 06/16/04 10:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

You mean, you'd be lucky to be luvdemshrooms.

While you can dream, it can never be.

But, don't cry little one, dry your eyes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2800958 - 06/17/04 01:08 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I know you've made "anti-Bush" posts. I'm sure very few people like everything Bush does.

Bio/luvdemshrooms: I knew it.







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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Vvellum]
    #2801008 - 06/17/04 01:38 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I am luvdemshrooms.

You can't be - you're honest.


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Anonymous

Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Vvellum]
    #2801109 - 06/17/04 02:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

um to free the iraqis from a ruthless dictator who had a penchant for mincing machines maybe




Where in the US Constitution does it say that the executive branch has the authority to be a global police force? Who asked for a US invasion?

If the US Federal government grew increasingly authoritarian, would you expect a foreign force whose cutoms and way of life were quite contrary to the American life to invade, destroy, and occupy our country for many years to come? Or would the burden be in the hands of the citizenry?




i cant say much about the US constitution,im an aussie
but i'd say that would only be the case if they were oppressive,we don't destroy their customs and traditions?

in fact they are in the west destroying ours ie here in oz my kids aren't allowed to celibrate christmas or easter(like i did) because some muslim who came here to flee oppression and racism all of a sudden hates our ancient traditions and gets them banned through the bullshit lie of political correctness,thats called slitting the underbelly of an enemy nation in my eyes
why change what you flee to into something you fled from?

the burden would be on the citizens regardless

ps:i hope you all excuse my gramma skills ,i'm only educated to year 10 with no higher school or uni education
:tongue:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2801322 - 06/17/04 04:23 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

here in oz my kids aren't allowed to celibrate christmas or easter(like i did)




Say what?


Christmas is illegal in Australia?


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2801332 - 06/17/04 04:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yep our kids arent allowed to celibrate easter or christmas at school because they don't want to offend muslims
fuck when i was a kid we had easter hat parades and manger plays......all gone :thumbdown:
some of the true-blue teachers will have quiet little parties in there classrooms but they are risking their jobsinstead of the whole school celibrating it like we did......it's actually like we have to sneak around in our own land,like the christians did in the early times

ps:i noticed you over at overgrow :shiftyeyes:


Edited by lamblancer (06/17/04 04:30 AM)


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2801368 - 06/17/04 04:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That is kind of sad I guess. Are there even that many muslims in your area?

These things wouldn't happen if the government would eliminate public education.


TF1 4 evar!!111111


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2801392 - 06/17/04 05:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

And yet again, I'll ask you to provide any proof of lying.

And yet again, I'll point out you are missing the brains, the balls, and any possible proof.

But for someone as dishonest as yourself, that's no surprise.

Have some dignity. It's not all that tough.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2801397 - 06/17/04 05:40 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

yep we have 300,000 of them in the sydney district(they won't assimilate)and they turn areas into nogo zones for non arabs unless your looking for drugs
the ironic thing is most of them put their muslim kids through private catholic schools over here which is hypocrisy in it's highest form imo,our public school system is in chaos at the moment with teacher strikes because the government is allotting more tax payers money to catholic schools than state schools
my point is if 300,000 won't tolerate their host nations traditions we only need a few mil more and we'll have our own little bosnia :thumbdown:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2801550 - 06/17/04 08:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

OK so the commission believe Iraq and Al-Quaeda co-operated.....but...there is no credible evidence that they co-operated.

Surely having no credible evidence means having no credible case.

Means asserting co-operation as a fact = talking bull


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2801559 - 06/17/04 08:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

That not a problem for bush and his boys. Cheney was going round touting evidence of a link between Iraq and Al-qaeda a year after it had been discarded as false intel by the FBI.

Are they utterly incompetent or just lying bastards?


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2801609 - 06/17/04 09:18 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

President George Bush, 1 May 2003

'The liberation of Iraq removed... an ally of al-Qa'ida'

'Dick Cheney, claimed on Monday (14th June 04) that the former Iraqi leader was "a patron of terrorism [with] long-established ties with al-Qa'ida''.

Yo d33p and luvdem , forget about grammar and semantics for a second, and concentrate on comprehension. This might help -

'Official verdict: White House misled world over Saddam'


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=532341


Edited by CJay (06/17/04 10:05 AM)


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2801985 - 06/17/04 12:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

concentrate on comprehension

Think you're asking a little too much of luv there.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2802048 - 06/17/04 12:39 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

just as luv is asking too much of you when he requests
proof and honesty.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2802055 - 06/17/04 12:41 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:drama:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2802154 - 06/17/04 01:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I thought the native religion of Australia was boogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaism.

Do they have boogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogaboogabooga day parties for the native kids?




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Anonymous

Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2802230 - 06/17/04 01:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

watchout or i'll send the gadacha man your way :yesnod:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2802243 - 06/17/04 01:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2802289 - 06/17/04 02:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

or point the bone
or insert a black opal into you through your belly button or just put a spear thru your thigh
take your pick :evil:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: ]
    #2802422 - 06/17/04 02:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Are these party games?


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2802442 - 06/17/04 02:51 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Wow you still do not understand. What is your native language because i think maybe you just don't know how English works.


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #2802554 - 06/17/04 03:25 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

nah mate traditional punishments
learn a little about our proud aboriginals:

http://www.ace.net.au/darkmoon/curse.htm

http://www.schools.ash.org.au/elanorah/abartif.htm

Food and other Ngadjonji uses of Rainforest Plants and Animals

Weapons and Tools
Some of the tools that the Ngadjonji produced from the materials of the forest and used to help them in obtaining and preparing food and in other ways to make their lives more secure and comfortable are introduced in this page.

The Ngadjonji made a great variety of spear types and were highly skilled in their use.
Spearpoints & Woomera - George Davis
& Eacham Historical Society
Photos - M.Huxley and K.Mackay
In most cases the spear shafts and points were made of different materials.
Straight lengths of lighter hardwoods such as jiman were favoured for shafts, though in recent years bamboo has become an acceptable substitute for lighter spears.
The spear points were usually made from the very hard wood of jidu, julu julu or junjum. These were further hardened by burning in a fire and scraping off the charred surface to form the point.
Points were attached to the shafts using fine split-lawyercane binding and special resins. There were many different designs for spear points and their arrangement on the shaft - each for its particular purpose.
Heavy killing spears for hunting large animals or serious fighting would have a single point and were often (shaft and point) made from a single length of hardwood. Fishing spears and spears for hunting smaller animals and birds were lighter and often had multiple points.
The Ngadjonji were very adept in the use of spear-throwers (woomeras) which were used to greatly increase the force and speed of the throw.


Photo - M.Huxley
The picture on the left shows Shane Barlow with a large wooden sword and painted shield made to traditional patterns by Malanbarra Yidinyji Elder George Davis.
Photo - Tony Irvine
Such swords and shields were used mostly for the somewhat ritualised combat at intertribal corroborees (warrima). Shields were made from the relatively light and soft wood from the flange buttresses of fig trees such as magurra, shown in the photo on the right. gabi and other figs were also used for shields. (See Making a shield)
Swords were made of much harder wood from trees such as jidu and junjum.


Boomerangs, used sometimes for fighting and rarely for hunting, were made from carefully selected sections of the flange buttresses of hardwood trees such as dunu.

Boomerang by George Davis; Photo - M.Huxley

Stone axes were highly-prized and very useful tools for the Ngadjonji.
Axe courtesy Eacham Historical Society; Photo - M.Huxley
They were used mostly for woodworking - to cut out and dress the wood needed for making shields, swords, spear points and boomerangs and for removing the sheets of bark used for making blankets. They were not usually used for fighting.
The stone axe head was ground to an edge at each end with a groove ground around the middle for the strap which attached the head to the handle.
The handles were usually made from the robust lawyercanes jungganyu or nidu. A strap of the handle cane was wrapped around the central groove in the head and bound in place using strips of yapulam or barrga. (See Lawyercanes)


String by George Davis; Photo - M.Huxley
String was made from the inner bark of dagurrba. Strips of bark were removed from the tree using an axe. The outer bark was scraped away and the remaining strips of soft moist inner bark were hand rolled on the thigh to form the string. Numbers of these strands could be twisted together to produce a thicker string if desired.
String was used for body decoration, ties of various sorts, and could be woven into taps for fish and birds as an alternative to the lawyercanes.



Grinding stones and graters were used for food preparation, particularly for grinding or grating cooked poisonous seeds before the period of leaching in running water which was necessary to remove the poison before they could be eaten. Snail shell parers were also used for this purpose, especially with ganyjuu. (See Food Processing)
Grinding stones were also used to powder the variously coloured ochres which were used for painting traditional patterns on shields and other wooden artefacts. (See Making a Shield)

Grinding stones & grater courtesy Eacham Historical Society; Photos - K.Mackay

Other important tools for the Ngadjonji included baskets of various kinds (see Basketmaking), lawyercane traps for catching ground-dwelling birds, eels and other fish, pointed hardwood digging sticks for yams and other food roots, ringing hardwood clapping sticks, firesticks (see Fire) and carved & painted message sticks used to invite surrounding tribes to a warrima.

More information on the tools and weapons of the North Queensland rainforest Aborigines can be found in Aboriginal Tools of the Rainforest by the Aboriginal people of Jumbun, compiled and photographed by Helen Pedley.



Back to Technology Startpage
Back to Food Startpage



Edited by lamblancer (06/17/04 03:41 PM)


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2802688 - 06/17/04 04:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

pot.kettle.black.liar


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2802714 - 06/17/04 04:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Tell you what slo-mo, show me that line in the actual report and we'll talk.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2802732 - 06/17/04 04:54 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

PinochhiAl, you can question my comprehension all you wish. It stacks well above yours.

What there is no question about is you are a liar. A dishonest sack. You have done more to demonstrate that in the last few days than I would have thought possible.

Now.... I'll yet again repeat the challenge I have made to you multiple times recently. Show me where I have lied. I'll gladly show where you have done so. Keep repeating your claims and I'll go ahead and put together a list whether you do or not.

I'll also repeat my previous comments made when asking you to back up the claim.....

You don't have the balls.

You don't have the brains.

You don't have the ability. There are none to be found.

Unlike you, some of us believe we are judged on what we do. You seem to think people are stupid and don't see what a dishonest ass you are. Well wake up. Many see. More will.

Now, grow up, grow a pair, learn the importance of the truth.

Sadly, I don't think you have what it takes.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2802736 - 06/17/04 04:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
:drama:



It's not drama PinochhiAl, it's just another person who recognizes you for what you are.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: afoaf]
    #2802738 - 06/17/04 04:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2804683 - 06/18/04 07:54 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yet more posts of constant bitching like a schoolgirl. Are you never tempted to try thinking?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2804829 - 06/18/04 10:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Your own post says it - you amaze me. Your own post, a source you must surely not doubt:

there was NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE of a link between Iraq and Al-Quaeda

'In fact, nowhere does the Commission make the claim that Iraq and al-Qaida never cooperated. What it does say is "We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."'

Ok I'll take you thru real slow -

The comission does not make the claim that Iraq and Al-Quaeda never co-operated.
(ie. they have a hunch Iraq & Al Quaeda might have co-operated)

What it says is that there is no credible evidence they co-operated.
(ie. It is nothing more than a hunch, nothing more than the product of someone's imagination. There is nothing to substantiate the hunch, and there are certainly no facts to back up the hunch. The hunch is NOT CREDIBLE EVIDENCE - there is no evidence. There is no case)


So bearing that in mind -

I know The White House administration have had the Taliban over for dinner a few years back. Ok so I have no credible evidence that the White House co-operated with the Taliban in taking away the rights of Afgan women and in terrorising the population. However based on the just approach of the Whitehouse, I do not need it.
I assert they were in cahoots! And my case is as strong as the White House's Iraq-Al Quaeda case.(If not far stronger, since the Taliban were happy guests of the administration and bin Laden wouldn't even go near his 'co-operator's' country)

Try not to be so blinded by your vanity and inability to accept a reality that challenges your assumption (that US = always unquestionably just and right). 'Think for yourself, question authority'

But if you need some authorative words, I will now show you links to the commission's reports, and the quote you request:

'Outline of 9/11 plot'
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_16.pdf

Not one mention of Saddam or Iraq in there.......they were not involved in the plot

Ok now the big one....brace yourself

'Overview of the Enemy'

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_15.pdf

That line in the actual report - as you request, it's on p5:

'We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Quaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.'

Sorry bud, looks like GWB and co. talk a load of shite  :sun:


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: Xlea321]
    #2804942 - 06/18/04 11:19 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Alex123 said:
I am luvdemshrooms.

You can't be - you're honest.



I guess that means....Alex is luvdemshrooms!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2804988 - 06/18/04 11:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yet more posts of constant bitching like a schoolgirl. Are you never tempted to try thinking?




Come on now Gaz surely you can see LDS is merely asking Alex to backup what he has said. Although I am quite sure I have more chance of getting pregnant than that happening...

Alex don't take this the wrong way but you should really start thinking before you post. You have accused both LDS and more recently pinksharkmark of being liars and yet you can offer no evidence to support these claims, this in my opinion is damaging whatever credibility you still have left....

EDIT: Removed double quote


Edited by st0nedphucker (06/19/04 04:28 AM)


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: GazzBut]
    #2806058 - 06/18/04 04:34 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Are you never tempted to point out what a lying sack your fellow countryman is? Or does the fact that he shares your ideology prevent that?

It certainly colors your judgement.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2806065 - 06/18/04 04:35 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ok I'll take you thru real slow -



Too slow for me, but maybe if you take it down another few notches you'll catch on.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #2806079 - 06/18/04 04:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Come on now Gaz surely you can see LDS is merely asking Alex to backup what he has said.



Exactly.


Quote:

Although I am quite sure I have more chance of getting pregnant than that happening...



Quite right.


Quote:

this in my opinion is damaging whatever credibility you still have left



The only credibility he has left is with some of his ideological soulmates.

Edit: added highlighted words.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (06/18/04 04:40 PM)


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2806624 - 06/18/04 07:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Earth calling luvdemshrooms - speak forth on the issue, or is it that hard for you to face it -

'Overview of the Enemy'

http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing12/staff_statement_15.pdf

That line in the actual report - as you request, it's on p5:

'We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Quaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.'

Sorry bud, looks like GWB and co. talk a load of shite


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2806635 - 06/18/04 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:rotfl:

Read a bit more on the statements of the commission members.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: CJay]
    #2806645 - 06/18/04 07:26 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

And this.

Iraq, al-Qaida and the 9/11 panel
Panel shortchanged topic in its report

June 18, 2004

The Sept. 11 commission isn't the first authority to say there is "no credible evidence" that Iraq cooperated with al-Qaida on terrorist attacks on the United States. "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with Sept. 11th," said President Bush almost a year ago, earning fewer headlines than the commission's recent report has.


But it doesn't matter that Bush said that does it? Your minds made up.

Not that it will matter.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2806735 - 06/18/04 07:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Here's the text of Bushes letter that launched the war in Iraq, I'll highlight the important areas.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-1.html

March 18, 2003

Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

Consistent with section 3(b) of the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243), and based on information available to me, including that in the enclosed document, I determine that:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic and other peaceful means alone will neither (A) adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq nor (B) likely lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

Sincerely,

GEORGE W. BUSH

---

Sure sounds like he claimed Iraq had something to do with 9/11 to me.


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2806753 - 06/18/04 08:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Unfortunately for your "point", the word Iraq does not appear in that sentence. If it had, you would have a point.

Why does remind me so much of the "imminent" claims?

Perhaps because it's a false as that?

Show me a quote with a link showing Bush at any time stated Iraq was involved with the attack.

While I'm waiting I'll walk and swim around the world.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2806768 - 06/18/04 08:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Tell me, how many nations, other than Iraq, has the US invaded since March 18th 2003?

Since this letter is a declaration of a war on Iraq, I don't think he needs to say the countries name every other line.


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: SquattingMarmot]
    #2806781 - 06/18/04 08:22 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

and

(2) acting pursuant to the Constitution and Public Law 107-243 is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.




Is bthere something you don't understand about the word "and"?

It's a seperate sentence with a seperate subject.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2806988 - 06/18/04 09:42 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

:wtf:

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. This is a list of the reasons for invading Iraq that Bush gave to the Congress. On this list it says

Quote:

...take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.




What other nation could he be refering to?


--------------------
"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808052 - 06/19/04 03:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Keep repeating your claims and I'll go ahead and put together a list whether you do or not.

You've been threatening this "list" for the last 12 months. When is it going to appear? Or is that another lie?


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808336 - 06/19/04 07:28 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

So Iraq has been co-operating with Al Quaeda, but not on the Sept 11 bombings (according to Bush).

So where and when did they co-operate?.....Well gee, turns out there's actually 'no credible evidence' that they co-operated at all, just a whole bunch of heresay and rumours.

As I said the USA gives far more reason for assumptions of it's co-operation with the Taliban (Not to mention the grand majority of the world's dictators), then Bin Laden does with Iraq.

Maybe the US forces should have invaded Sudan not Iraq since they harboured Bin Laden for a considerable time and encouraged him against his reason to co-operate with Saddam (with no success).

Sounds like they support Al Quaeda to a far greater degree than Saddam's secular nation-state ever did.


Edited by CJay (06/19/04 10:14 AM)


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Re: why did we invade iraq, again? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2808343 - 06/19/04 07:45 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In your article most of the quotes are from a journalist's column - with no name attached. Who said these things, old mother Hubbard? Or are they just the journalist's own speculative words?

The two substantiated by a named speaker do not indicate any co-operation - 'Bin Laden met' is the best Powell can do in either of those quotes.

Didn't the USA also meet with Saddam on quite a few occasions? Not to mention the Taliban and most of the world's dictators. Using your preferred method of substansiation I would say this clearly means the USA is allies with these groups and governments.


In the article you posted it says:
'Vice President Cheney and CIA director George Tenet, as well as Clinton administration officials in the 1990s certainly suggested Iraq and al-Qaida established a relationship'

Once again, only suggestion....No evidence can be produced.

Well the power of suggestion has worked well for these guys over the years.

Yet still no evidence can be produced.


Edited by CJay (06/19/04 09:59 AM)


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