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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offline336
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The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves * 1
    #27974258 - 09/29/22 05:05 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

"Nine different law student groups at the University of California at Berkeley’s School of Law, my own alma mater, have begun this new academic year by amending bylaws to ensure that they will never invite any speakers that support Israel or Zionism. And these are not groups that represent only a small percentage of the student population. They include Women of Berkeley Law, Asian Pacific American Law Students Association, Middle Eastern and North African Law Students Association, Law Students of African Descent and the Queer Caucus. Berkeley Law’s Dean Erwin Chemerinsky, a progressive Zionist, has observed that he himself would be banned under this standard, as would 90% of his Jewish students."

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/351854/berkeley-develops-jewish-free-zones/

Just the most recent example that popped up in my feed.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336]
    #27974285 - 09/29/22 05:19 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Nazi is what the left usually calls actual Nazis . Everyone else is just a wannabe Nazi .


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Psilynut2] * 1
    #27974435 - 09/29/22 07:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It's always a great time to be Jewish - the alt-right thinks that all anti-racism, fiscal policy, media, and war is 100% controlled by a Jewish world conspiracy, deny the holocaust and that any call out on anti-antisemitism is a farce  -- and a certain sect of the left (mostly the jargon laden university-type) think that Jewish people are collectively 100% responsible for issues in Palestine (and never Hamas - or the PLO which have spit in the face of every Arab country that's helped them or sheltered them)

Mind, I do think that a lot of what happens there is reprehensible - - and there is responsibility to bear on both sides - - but any outlook which places the blame squarely on one or the other is never going to bring about any change or peace... at this point - these conflicts and situations were inherited, it will require significant mutual compromise to solve.


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InvisibleLynnch
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336] * 2
    #27974558 - 09/29/22 08:27 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Not inviting zionist speakers is not the same thing as hating jews.

Also, 9 law student groups is not 'the left'.

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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: twighead] * 1
    #27974915 - 09/30/22 04:09 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Mind, I do think that a lot of what happens there is reprehensible - - and there is responsibility to bear on both sides - - but any outlook which places the blame squarely on one or the other is never going to bring about any change or peace... at this point - these conflicts and situations were inherited, it will require significant mutual compromise to solve.




This is true.

However the only side that can put the steps in place first in order to end this is Israel, they control every aspect of the country.

Not that anything is ever going to change, the fighting has gone on for too long, the hatred against Israel is too complete.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27974923 - 09/30/22 04:32 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

The head guy now says he supports a two-state solution, but he's not doing anything about, same as the previous leaders with that rhetoric.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Lynnch] * 3
    #27976638 - 10/01/22 12:51 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Lynnch said:
Not inviting zionist speakers is not the same thing as hating jews.

Also, 9 law student groups is not 'the left'.




Interestingly, both of these points illustrate a common right wing fallacy: the idea that everyone is the same and thinks the same, and people can be divided into neat little blocks like "jews" and "the left", and they will all act the same.

That's how you equate a far right arguably violent nationalist movement with "all jews" and that's how you equate 9 people with an entire political ideology.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336] * 2
    #27976944 - 10/01/22 04:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
"Nine different law student groups at the University of California at Berkeley’s School of Law, my own alma mater, have begun this new academic year by amending bylaws to ensure that they will never invite any speakers that support Israel or Zionism. And these are not groups that represent only a small percentage of the student population. They include Women of Berkeley Law, Asian Pacific American Law Students Association, Middle Eastern and North African Law Students Association, Law Students of African Descent and the Queer Caucus. Berkeley Law’s Dean Erwin Chemerinsky, a progressive Zionist, has observed that he himself would be banned under this standard, as would 90% of his Jewish students."

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/351854/berkeley-develops-jewish-free-zones/

Just the most recent example that popped up in my feed.




Israel is a right wing apartheid state, breaking international law in perpetuity, and committing war crimes in neighboring states.

What’s ironic about this? Are we doing the “the people who said to be tolerant won’t tolerate my intolerance” bit again?


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27977554 - 10/02/22 06:46 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

They're an apartheid state, no doubt. But in many other respects not right wing. I realize that labor parties are rather misnamed in modern times, but sometimes theirs dominates the government, and is moderately left.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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Onlinekoods
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336]
    #27977583 - 10/02/22 07:15 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:
"Nine different law student groups at the University of California at Berkeley’s School of Law, my own alma mater, have begun this new academic year by amending bylaws to ensure that they will never invite any speakers that support Israel or Zionism. And these are not groups that represent only a small percentage of the student population. They include Women of Berkeley Law, Asian Pacific American Law Students Association, Middle Eastern and North African Law Students Association, Law Students of African Descent and the Queer Caucus. Berkeley Law’s Dean Erwin Chemerinsky, a progressive Zionist, has observed that he himself would be banned under this standard, as would 90% of his Jewish students."

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/351854/berkeley-develops-jewish-free-zones/

Just the most recent example that popped up in my feed.



You should see what the Israeli lobby has done to limit free speech

Quote:

As of 2021, 35 states have passed bills and executive orders designed to discourage boycotts of Israel.[4] Many of them have been passed with broad bipartisan support.[5] Most anti-BDS laws have taken one of two forms: contract-focused laws requiring government contractors to promise that they are not boycotting Israel; and investment-focused laws, mandating public investment funds to avoid entities boycotting Israel.[6] There has been debate over whether the laws violate the right to free speech and organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR) have challenged many of them in court cases.[7]




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27977585 - 10/02/22 07:16 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
They're an apartheid state, no doubt. But in many other respects not right wing. I realize that labor parties are rather misnamed in modern times, but sometimes theirs dominates the government, and is moderately left.




The labor party in Israel has been a nonfactor for decades.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27977592 - 10/02/22 07:23 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

A few decades, but FDR was 80 years ago. They have us beat for left-wing tradition.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27977607 - 10/02/22 07:39 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I dunno we had about a century of labor agitation and massive strikes and stuff.

It’s just hard to be a left wing Zionist, like by definition.


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InvisibleTulipslave
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Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 11,968
Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27977615 - 10/02/22 07:51 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
I dunno we had about a century of labor agitation and massive strikes and stuff.

It’s just hard to be a left wing Zionist, like by definition.





Fundamentalism/zionism is a disease of the mind. Religion is just the infecting virus that often, but not always, leads to the disease.



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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27977673 - 10/02/22 08:41 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I get the point about Zionism, but Israel was controlled by a Zionist social democratic government for ten years, which is unlike anything in American history. Your right, the Labor Party performed poorly this century. But two Arab parties now control 10 of the 100 seats.

Israel is a case like no other, but like American exceptionalism, that can be a curse.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27978148 - 10/02/22 02:45 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Still a bit of the same fallacy...while I can support the social democratic party of Israel on some points, I don't necessarily support their Zionism. Though, from what I can tell, the social democrat party is Zionist primarily as a rhetorical device, as they seem to vote somewhat against Zionist policy.

Zionism itself is kinda weird. On the one hand, I have nothing against Jews forming a Jewish homeland...there's nothing wrong with that directly...but then we run into the problem of borders. As is often the problem. There is no easy way out for non-Jewish people within Israel, and the somewhat expansionary policies of Israel, as well as the consistently documented evidence of their military treating neighboring countries as subhuman...all of that background, combined with the religious nature of the question and the generaltional conflict aspect, makes this a Very Big Problem long term.

Right now seems like decent decision point for Israel. Many of their policies, once justified by self defense against their Muslim neighbors, could now be relaxed. Considering that most of the major powers in the region that are adversarial to Israel are currently battling some degree of internal rebellion or have recently been democratized. Israel could also choose to take advantage of the situation. If there is one group of people that has the most generational casus belli, it's probably the Jews.

We really need to get rid of borders. This shit is dumb. Also, I have the distinct feeling that squabbling over borders is going to end my entire extended family in nuclear fire.

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Offline336
menehune


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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336]
    #27978153 - 10/02/22 02:50 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)



Doesn't seem very balanced to me...


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336]
    #27978159 - 10/02/22 02:54 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

That's like looking at a county level voting map without adjusting for population and economy in the US.

Cows don't vote, and neither do sand dunes.

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: 336] * 1
    #27978217 - 10/02/22 03:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

336 said:


Doesn't seem very balanced to me...




It’s not balanced at all. All those countries are Israeli allies.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: The Irony of the 'Left' calling everyone Nazis and then hating Jews themselves [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #27978341 - 10/02/22 04:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

The arab world stepped back from assisting the Palestinians a lot in the 70s when they tried to overthrow the Jordanian government that was sheltering them - and then was a major cause of the civil war in Lebanon afterwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

Of those countries, Israel only has official relations with Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Morocco and Bahrain tho.


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