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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28060583 - 11/19/22 07:06 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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If 1 hour gets the job done, I'm going back to 1 hour @ 15 psi runs. I don't like wasting time nor energy/money. Yeah, I'm cheap!
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: ruawakeyet] 1
#28060590 - 11/19/22 07:10 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't call it a waste, plus those ampoules only tell us how effective the cycle is against endospores while saying nothing about heat resistant compounds that may be present on the grain.
This post covers endospores only so don't make the assumption that you're safe just because endospores can be destroyed with a relatively short cycle.
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ruawakeyet


Registered: 05/03/21
Posts: 1,862
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28060596 - 11/19/22 07:18 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I had assumed those thermophilic endospores were the toughest bastards to deal with. If they were killed, any pathogenic microorganism should be dead.
I hear what you're saying about chemical compounds though. That's one reason I don't believe in no-prep grain teks. I like the idea of boiling or at least steeping my grain in a lot of water first, then dumping all that, plus multiple rinses before loading into jars. I hope almost everything has been washed out by then, but who knows. I'm not a fan of all the crap Big Ag uses.
I'll probably stay with 90 minutes. I ran my last two batches of oats for 2 hours each, and after being used to 90 minutes, that extra half hour seemed like an extra hour at least.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: ruawakeyet] 2
#28060602 - 11/19/22 07:22 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Do whatever works for you.
Yes, the species of endospores are the most thermophilic so all other microorganisms will have been destroyed along with them.
However there's bound to be pesticides, fungicides, and an array of secondary products produced by the thermal death of living microorganisms. These compounds will break down at various rates when exposed to heat, there may be some that do not break down when exposed to heat.
This is a question that I will be attempting to answer in the future.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,808
Loc: Canada
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28060918 - 11/19/22 11:13 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah I have no idea what temp effectively denatures crytoxins.
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DERRAYLD
Constructus


Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9,284
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 2
#28060930 - 11/19/22 11:26 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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As I've said here many times before; I ran 500ml jars for many years at 1 hr cycles using this piece of shit pc that reaches 12- 13psi.
It worked but I still got myself a proper pc and changed to 17-20psi for 2 hrs.

It's great you're running these tests to at least keep ideas flowing. I should run some tests in this el cheapo pc as well to contribute to this experiment.
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rumfor69
Bodhicitta Cultivator



Registered: 08/05/11
Posts: 6,767
Loc: In the Gills
Last seen: 15 hours, 42 minutes
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: DERRAYLD] 1
#28061111 - 11/20/22 04:13 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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I started back in the day with that exact same PC and 1hr times too
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DharmaForKarma
Tub monkey


Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 565
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: DERRAYLD]
#28061310 - 11/20/22 08:33 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
DERRAYLD said: As I've said here many times before; I ran 500ml jars for many years at 1 hr cycles using this piece of shit pc that reaches 12- 13psi.
It worked but I still got myself a proper pc and changed to 17-20psi for 2 hrs.
Do you recall noticing a difference in outcomes when you switched to a proper pc?
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,317
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 39 minutes, 9 seconds
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#28061796 - 11/20/22 02:12 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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Wow! Epic Post! Thanks for sharing
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth πππ
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | π§ Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method π§ |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 4
#28062171 - 11/20/22 05:54 PM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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OP is now complete, all data is in.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (11/20/22 07:55 PM)
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FungiPapi
Stranger


Registered: 09/08/20
Posts: 59
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28073872 - 11/29/22 12:04 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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I just bought the presto thanks for doing this.
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DERRAYLD
Constructus


Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9,284
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 2 hours, 4 minutes
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: FungiPapi]
#28073878 - 11/29/22 12:11 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DharmaForKarma said:
Quote:
DERRAYLD said: As I've said here many times before; I ran 500ml jars for many years at 1 hr cycles using this piece of shit pc that reaches 12- 13psi.
It worked but I still got myself a proper pc and changed to 17-20psi for 2 hrs.
Do you recall noticing a difference in outcomes when you switched to a proper pc?
Oh definitely, I used to accept contaminated jars were a part of the process until I got a proper pc and the contam rate plummeted to 0. If anything pops up in my grain now I know it's not related to the pc. That being said I think no prep is a bigger issue but that's my opinion which has changed substantially in the last few years.
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: DERRAYLD]
#28076202 - 11/30/22 02:11 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: thelanzii]
#28082211 - 12/03/22 09:33 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Running 3x3qt pre sealed bags in my 14 qt go wise instant pressure cooker 15 min vent and 4 hrs @ high pressure roght now, planning to inoculate grain cooked at 20 psi for 2 hrs with the same clone and run exactly the same conditions to verify your results in practice.
It only runs a 2 hr cycle at a time but you can hit cancel and start it over. Had a few bags hat wouldnt fit in my aaβs so no loss if it doesnt work
for science
-------------------- Learn about breeding
  C10βs agar guide Good surface conditions = Good pinsets Read more, post less. π
π° πΌ π΄ π
π΄ π° πΌ π
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alexmorgan114
Alex Mack


Registered: 12/06/22
Posts: 69
Last seen: 18 days, 3 hours
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: AyePlus] 1
#28102902 - 12/18/22 01:02 AM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you!
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goodcleanfun
lurkdog


Registered: 10/27/21
Posts: 47
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load/Cycle Verification [Re: alexmorgan114] 1
#28125351 - 01/05/23 07:03 AM (1 year, 23 days ago) |
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Incredible research p9!
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AyePlus
Stony Danza


Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: AyePlus] 2
#28125439 - 01/05/23 08:35 AM (1 year, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
AyePlus said: Running 3x3qt pre sealed bags in my 14 qt go wise instant pressure cooker 15 min vent and 4 hrs @ high pressure roght now, planning to inoculate grain cooked at 20 psi for 2 hrs with the same clone and run exactly the same conditions to verify your results in practice.
It only runs a 2 hr cycle at a time but you can hit cancel and start it over. Had a few bags hat wouldnt fit in my aaβs so no loss if it doesnt work
for science
Bags done for 4 hours at 10-12psi colonized no different than the ones done for 2 hours at 20. They are currently in fruiting and knotting up.. unless they contam last minute (iβd be surprised considering how they look)
-------------------- Learn about breeding
  C10βs agar guide Good surface conditions = Good pinsets Read more, post less. π
π° πΌ π΄ π
π΄ π° πΌ π
π΄ π° πΌ π² π» πΈ π½ πΆ π
π
π° πΏ
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TryptaminerXXXIII
Collecting Dues


Registered: 02/04/23
Posts: 54
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: AyePlus]
#28181045 - 02/10/23 02:36 PM (11 months, 11 days ago) |
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Man that's hilarious. After how matter of fact you were here.
Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said:
Quote:
Farm3r said:
Quote:
Rotnpins said:
Quote:
Farm3r said:
Who said dunk spawn lol?
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17616982/vc/1
Lol that's a decade old. And really was probably the introduction of the community realizing how much water is lost during colonization. Also not a horrible idea, although it could be directly reaccounted for by adding that much water it would have absorbed into the tub. I feel like that's actually a crucial factor of us understanding how subs and their moisture content also act inside tubs of different conditions. It's not like gourmets where the teks have been tried for decades around the globe. This community has been finding the best way to grow cubes for decades. If your hating on Frank, gtfo, he's done more here than most ever will.
And whereas that is completely besides the point, and idk why you brought that up, it still is not even comparable to the scientific evidence that backs a Instapot efficiency.
This isn't an argument. This is a discussion.
Dunking myceliated spawn is 100% pointless. Saying "Frank did x so it must be true" is an argument to authority rather than using critical thought.
Also, in terms of an instapot functioning as an autoclave:
Autoclaves have very specific design features that allow them to be effective against viruses, diseases, and most notably in our case: thermophilic bacterial endospores.
A 23 quart presto can be used as an autoclave because it shares many of those design features. Autoclaves are capable of :
Maintaining even an even working temperature across all surfaces, this is critical due to the way surfaces interact with internal gases, cold spots will cause an autoclave to fail verification due to the insulative properties of cool trapped gases; this is tested via Bowie-Dick test;
An instant pot is not capable of this.
Purge cycle:
Autoclaves and prestos require purging of trapped atmospheric gases in order to reach an appropriate internal temperature, if this is not completed the pressure guage will give a faulty temperature reading which will mean that your load will not sterilize completely;(major reason why instapots fail at cult work)
Instant pots are not ccapable of this.
Autoclaves can sustain operating temperature and pressure for the appropriate time frame: minimum 15psi for a MIN 90 mins. The R value of grains is quite high, load penwtration requires long exposures. More is more, less is less.
Instant pot....
There's nothing eletist about knowing how shit works.
Liquid media is liquid, water is highly conductive and instruments are considered a very light load. You can get away with agar and LC broth, but still, don't.
Maybe you can run liquids in an instant pot, producing clean spawn on the otherhand....
Just because x member ran grain jars in something inappropriate for the application does not mean anything. Good advice is good advice, the science doesn't lie.
Arguments to authority are not arguments, x member was not a TC when he ran grains in an instant pot and something tells me his spawn wasn't awesome when he did.
Doubtful he would recommend it but hey, who know's these days.
Edit:
Another mod on the shroomery discord server has tested the instant pot with biological indicator in a pint grain jar ran for 4 hours. She works in an AIDS lab.
Guess what...
It failed to sterilize.
The only reason you did the experiment I'm sure.
But I'm glad you did it. It's what Farm3r said to begin with lol. And what the community verified through growth time and time again. But ya, good research.
--------------------
Nothing is sacred Rest In Paradise β€οΈchinacat72β€οΈZombi3β€οΈ
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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I was basing my statements on tests run in an HIV lab, farmer, that fucking noob, was simply trolling my ass without any supporting theoretical or real world experience/evidence.
I was very matter of fact, I stated multiple times that my opinion was based soley upon the prior testing of the IP via biological indicator with a 1/2 pint grain jar. That test failed at 4 hours cycle time.
Farmer trolled me for weeks, shit posting anything I had to say. So, coming in here to do the same is pretty fucking stupid.
I ran the tests for my own piece of mind. I still wouldn't recommend the IP for grains as it likely just barely crosses the threshold. Farmer had no idea what he was talking about, he's a troll puppet and was permanently banned for it.
Farmer was QM33, who constantly trolled my posts. Good riddance.
Furthermore: dunking myceliated grains is full retard.
My opinion is based upon evidence, not how I "feel" about any given subject. My opinion was solidly based upon the best available evidence, farmer on the otherhand possessed zero experience, practical or otherwise.
I at least tested the claim with scientific protocols to ascertain the truth for myself, farmer remaims a fucking asshole.
Edited by Stipe-n Cap (02/10/23 03:17 PM)
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TryptaminerXXXIII
Collecting Dues


Registered: 02/04/23
Posts: 54
Last seen: 11 months, 9 days
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Re: Autoclave Validation and Load Penetration [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#28181139 - 02/10/23 03:54 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Stipe-n Cap said: I was basing my statements on tests run in an HIV lab, farmer, that fucking noob, was simply trolling my ass without any supporting theoretical or real world experience/evidence.
I was very matter of fact, I stated multiple times that my opinion was based soley upon the prior testing of the IP via biological indicator with a 1/2 pint grain jar. That test failed at 4 hours cycle time.
Farmer trolled me for weeks, shit posting anything I had to say. So, coming in here to do the same is pretty fucking stupid.
I ran the tests for my own piece of mind. I still wouldn't recommend the IP for grains as it likely just barely crosses the threshold. Farmer had no idea what he was talking about, he's a troll puppet and was permanently banned for it.
Farmer was QM33, who constantly trolled my posts. Good riddance.
Furthermore: dunking myceliated grains is full retard.
My opinion is based upon evidence, not how I "feel" about any given subject. My opinion was solidly based upon the best available evidence, farmer on the otherhand possessed zero experience, practical or otherwise.
I at least tested the claim with scientific protocols to ascertain the truth for myself, farmer remaims a fucking asshole.
Hmmmm, ya idk about all that. He must be pretty horrible if you got TCs like yourself calling him such horrible names. His YouTube seems okay..
Doxxing people... Also... Interesting that you say that really because I don't think that's the case.
*** It really makes me wonder how you could ever come to that conclusion....
--------------------
Nothing is sacred Rest In Paradise β€οΈchinacat72β€οΈZombi3β€οΈ
Edited by TryptaminerXXXIII (02/10/23 03:57 PM)
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