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336
menehune


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How will society handle near-total automation?
#27959095 - 09/20/22 02:58 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/factbox-the-challenges-automakers-and-now-tesla-face-with-humanoid-robots/ar-AA1220sU
It's only a matter of time. Automation is going to put nearly everyone out of work. With few exceptions of course.
How will society, especially a capitalist one, handle the fact that in the future no one will need to work. Will there be no choice but to embrace Communism? Or will the Illuminati ramp up their depopulation plans?
Thoughts?
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christopera
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27959149 - 09/20/22 03:35 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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The are more jobs than ever and more automation than ever.
The question isn't the replacement of jobs, it is the quality of the job. Humans make bad machines.
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Gorguss
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: christopera]
#27959223 - 09/20/22 04:28 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Truck drivers run 24/7 all over the country. They account for ~6% of jobs in USA. I know people don't like Elon Musk or Tesla, but I do, and an electric truck driven by software could move goods 24/7. All you need is warehouse/distribution centers with tech that can communicate with the tech bringing it in.
You can keep doing these types of thought experiments until what the original poster said comes true.
This is exactly what a lot of the people who propose we start talking about Universal Basic Income think to be coming true... soon. Not all that talk about it, but most understand above, and that's why. They aren't trying to 'control' people. The idea of UBI comes strictly from a place of logic, how do people buy stuff when most if not all essential jobs are automated?
Quote:
christopera said: The are more jobs than ever and more automation than ever.
The question isn't the replacement of jobs, it is the quality of the job. Humans make bad machines.
Humans have been making better and better machines since the industrial revolution. There is no doubt that we still need to keep working and doing things.... for now... But when they build a machine that builds machines that builds machines? There is a reason why Elon Musk jokes about life being the biological boot loader for AI. Though AI is a loaded term if you skip all the details and just imagine a consciousness exists and it operates digitally, that is to say processing information electronically (1/100 light speed.) It could learn in 4 minutes what it takes us 8 years to learn, a Ph.D.
We process information chemically. We are slow af relative to above.
Back to the OP, Elon Musk, I know I keep referencing him, right??? Says that automation will bring about the age of abundance. I think it makes sense.
We already have enough food to feed the world many times over, but we concentrate or waste most of it. The technologies of the future will not damn us but give us much more control (power) over our environment. We are not the perfect organism, we are just the first to learn a lot, pass down what worked, and thousands of years later here we are. We still don't control a lot of things, but we are working on all fronts of all things we can't or don't yet, and we will, if we don't go extinct first due to the list of things, we're all aware of.
I could go on for a long time about this stuff
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Psilynut2
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Gorguss]
#27959269 - 09/20/22 04:50 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Humans have been making better and better machines since the industrial revolution.
We've been getting lazier , fatter and weaker too . Our bones are becoming lighter . Stupidity isn't being selected against quite the way it used to be . I'm not looking forward to total automation .
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Gorguss
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27960105 - 09/21/22 04:26 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: We've been getting lazier , fatter and weaker too . Our bones are becoming lighter . Stupidity isn't being selected against quite the way it used to be . I'm not looking forward to total automation .
You can take any question ask google and you get the answer.
Our bodies don't make vitamin C anymore, we consume it from food. Most other animals still do. As time goes on, we are weaker physically, because our brains demand more. Every time we conquer an environmental obstacle, we relieve our bodies from hard work it does 24/7 to keep us alive. Soap. Cleaning ourselves. Vaccines. Symptom management.
Our skin isn't as well protected from the elements, we build shelters. Our claws aren't sharp they are soft nails. We can't drink water like other animals from any stream or river, we treat it.
We have a vestigial organ the appendix, perhaps it once helped us digest bark or had some immune function.
You don't need to work out or train like an MMA fight or learn self-defense techniques to protect oneself, you can train with a firearm and do significantly more damage with significantly less effort and energy.
We can level an entire city because we process ore that is radioactive. And convert its mass into energy, we split the atom.
The point is yes, we are weaker than say our cousin species of ape, chimpanzees, but for all the raw strength and resilience we lack, we make up for thousands fold with our knowledge. We will change more. What seems to be stupidity now is only how abundant information has become. Becoming educated about things we easily learn now was once behind a class wall. It didn't directly help the rich to know so much about the world, but it increased their awareness.
I think a divergence in our species is about to happen that will only become all too obvious. Obviously, it already is happening, some people don't use tech on purpose and others just don't have access to it. Eventually all that will be left if we don't go extinct will be the people who embraced the technology. I'm talking about symbiosis with Artificial Intelligence. Not saying AI is conscious but just an advanced form our software. Algorithms and massive databases that we can all have access to with our minds. I'm talking about neuralink. When you can communicate with all the knowledge humanity has figured it out in real time with your thoughts. We may not need to go to school and teach kids the same way we do now.
I'm far away from automation again. It's just a complex web of interconnecting drivers. A tractor can autonomously plow, plant, water and harvest fields of cereal grains.
The future is here and it's trending the same direction ever faster. We won't stop moving that way because it's the most efficient. Yes, it will change us from what we use to be and what we are now, but that is natural. People are also naturally afraid and resistant to too much change.
I've never seen the things we learn in history. People we're scared of opening up dead bodies and figuring out how it works. People we're scared of electricity. People are scared of what they don't know, and we are creating that unknown.
People, like myself, guess what may happen if these technologies advance 10-fold, 100-fold or 1000-fold. I start talking about that and now I know what it feels like to be telling people the future; you are not met with awe or anything positive, its overwhelmingly negative.
I'm not guessing this stuff based on my bias, I'm inferring it based on the direction the technologies are moving in. That is to say anyone can look up these technologies that are in development and ask the hypothetical questions, what if they succeed? Then check the thought experiment with first principles, are there any physical limitations to why they can't exist?
Sometimes even when that answer is no, there are other reasons why it won't work down the road, as the technology advances in its development and research.
Change is the only constant. Homo sapien sapiens are in transition too. We will become something else if we survive long enough. The best hope we can have is to embrace change, not fear it.
We can weigh pros and cons without our bias and ask ourselves would this make life better? Automation is what will bring about abundance. Not just resources and food, but time.
Most people don't know how to spend all day without waking up and going to work. The idea of unlimited free time is not something they want.
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Enlil
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Gorguss]
#27960227 - 09/21/22 07:07 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gorguss said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: We've been getting lazier , fatter and weaker too . Our bones are becoming lighter . Stupidity isn't being selected against quite the way it used to be . I'm not looking forward to total automation .
You can take any question ask google and you get the answer.
Not the correct answer, generally.
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Psilynut2
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Gorguss]
#27960370 - 09/21/22 09:12 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The point is yes, we are weaker than say our cousin species of ape, chimpanzees, but for all the raw strength and resilience we lack, we make up for thousands fold with our knowledge
Someday we will all have Stephen Hawking's brain , and his body too .
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The Ecstatic
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27960381 - 09/21/22 09:20 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
336 said: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/technology/factbox-the-challenges-automakers-and-now-tesla-face-with-humanoid-robots/ar-AA1220sU
It's only a matter of time. Automation is going to put nearly everyone out of work. With few exceptions of course.
How will society, especially a capitalist one, handle the fact that in the future no one will need to work. Will there be no choice but to embrace Communism? Or will the Illuminati ramp up their depopulation plans?
Thoughts?
I mean, the only reason the working class has the standard of living they currently do is because the ruling class needs workers.
Once labor loses their leverage, what incentive does the ruling class have to provide us with a decent life? The goodness of their hearts? They’re already planning on blasting off and leaving earth after they’ve finished destroying it.
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Kryptos
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27960450 - 09/21/22 10:10 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yup.
Capitalist society will deal with this the same way that capitalist society deals with this type of thing: Call the unemployed lazy, cut benefits, expand prison systems, and cut taxes on the rich while squeezing the middle class.
It's like they said at Davos: You will own nothing and you will be happy. That is the finish line of capitalism. One person owns everything, and you spend your life working for the one person that owns everything.
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Psilynut2
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Kryptos]
#27960493 - 09/21/22 10:51 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Why can't you guys work for yourselves ? I don't know what state y'all live in but in mine they have all the info you need to get your business license on their website . My uncle is a millionaire , all he ever did was lay brick , he had his own small company . Dumb as a box of rocks too , didn't graduate highschool , never traveled anywhere , never left his state . What's stopping you is what I mean .
Edited by Psilynut2 (09/21/22 10:53 AM)
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Kryptos
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27960590 - 09/21/22 12:07 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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NIMBYism killed the brick demand around here.
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336
menehune


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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Psilynut2]
#27960630 - 09/21/22 12:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Why can't you guys work for yourselves ? I don't know what state y'all live in but in mine they have all the info you need to get your business license on their website . My uncle is a millionaire , all he ever did was lay brick , he had his own small company . Dumb as a box of rocks too , didn't graduate highschool , never traveled anywhere , never left his state . What's stopping you is what I mean .
I imagine mental illness has a lot to do with it. That said, what is stopping 99% of the world from becoming millionaire business owners? Often time it comes down to who you know. And if you don't know the right people it makes it that much harder to grow as you speak of.
That said, when automation peaks, I doubt there will be many small businesses left. Only those that can afford the robots will survive. And even then who knows what stipulations will be applied by the owners/creators of the robots.
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Kryptos
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27960831 - 09/21/22 02:56 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, "just start a small business" is unworkable advice for 90% of the population. And about 7.5% of those 10% go out of business and are left in lifelong debt/bankruptcy court. Everybody telling you to start a small business is operating under survivorship bias. You don't hear about the vast majority of people that go out of business and lose all of their money. Hell, I operated a small business for nearly a year before it folded. If not for my fallback plan of using my ChemE degree, I'd be in lots of debt right now.
I expect that the small business failure stats are about to increase sharply. I've watched a few locals shut down and go out of business recently because they couldn't compete with bigger corporations. One of my favorite restaurants just shut down because McD's pays 15.50/hr and they can't afford to keep workers paying 10$ an hour.
Another local manufacturing plant recently shut down, small family business...they were also paying licensed forklift drivers 24k a year.
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336
menehune


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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27960845 - 09/21/22 03:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Exactly. And as automation continues to ramp up I feel these types of problems are going to increase. Not that I think automation is bad, I'm actually all for it. I'm just uncertain that society will be able to handle the transition without developing into totalitarian dystopias and the inevitable rebellions that will follow.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Darwin23
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27961647 - 09/21/22 10:58 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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As long as there are limited resources, automation will be used to enrich those who are already wealthy. This will be met with anarchist-style violence similar to what was seen in Russia/Ukraine in the lead up to and through the civil wars during/post-WWI. The most powerful AI, which will be owned by the most powerful members of society will be used to guide decision-making, especially during these times of chaos and violence. The AI will gradually move us towards parity without wealth-hoarders realizing or caring, since resources will be becoming more and more abundant. Eventually, we'll end up in a situation in which most of society is equal.
I don't anticipate that endpoint occurring for several hundred years, though.
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Lynnch
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Darwin23]
#27961673 - 09/21/22 11:21 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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That's an interesting thought.
I think people need other people. I mean, where's the fun in being rich and powerful if you're not rich and powerful compared to someone else?
I had a gig clearing the chairs from a stadium the other day. It's such a simple yet specific task, it wouldn't be cost effective to design a robot to do it. Why spend the millions on R and D? Unless you happened to have an android that completely matched human capabilities.. but if you replace all humans with robots, why would you need them to set up the chairs?
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27961684 - 09/21/22 11:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
336 said: It's only a matter of time. Automation is going to put nearly everyone out of work.
They've been saying that since the modern robot was invented in the 1940s, and the demand for labor hasn't slowed down yet. I'm hoping it does, as we can then move from a 40 hour workweek down to a smaller number. And if goods remain in demand, they can keep paying us the same for fewer hours (though those at the top would more likely just keep the money for themselves).
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336
menehune


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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#27961688 - 09/21/22 11:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
336 said: It's only a matter of time. Automation is going to put nearly everyone out of work.
They've been saying that since the modern robot was invented in the 1940s, and the demand for labor hasn't slowed down yet. I'm hoping it does, as we can then move from a 40 hour workweek down to a smaller number. And if goods remain in demand, they can keep paying us the same for fewer hours (though those at the top would more likely just keep the money for themselves).
I hear you, but just look at how quickly technology and robotics has evolved these past few decades. When a humanoid robot is made effectively the majority of jobs will be no longer required. And with AI the majority of other jobs that aren't labor-related will also be taken over. I'm telling you. It could be the best/worst thing to happen to humans. It all depends on those in power. If they choose to be evil then they may create some hellish dystopia in order to maintain some weird feeling of superiority over the masses or, it could become like Star Trek and everyone will be free to do whatever they desire and space will become our future.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: 336]
#27961694 - 09/21/22 11:44 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Luckily, "those in power" in the U.S. are the citizens
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336
menehune


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Re: How will society handle near-total automation? [Re: Enlil] 1
#27961697 - 09/21/22 11:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Luckily, "those in power" in the U.S. are the citizens

The citizens of every country are prisoners to the elite of their nation / the world. None of these democratic nations are actually democratic.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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