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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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Hey Europeans
    #2795756 - 06/15/04 06:16 PM (13 years, 11 days ago)

How about helping those of us over here who aren't as knowing as you are, please compare the groups in the following chart to their US's nearest equivilant.

Honest posters only please.

Thanks in advance.




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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2797347 - 06/16/04 01:54 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

It's very hard to compare, but generally the definitions on your picture are good. My knowledge about US politics is limited. I assumed that there are left & right fractions in the Democrat and Republican parties, so I'd say like this:

- Green ... Green
- PES ... left Democrats
- ELDR ... right Democrats
- EPP-ED ... moderate Republicans
- UEN ... Bush like republicans

I have no idea who could be Libertarian equivalent - maybe a part of ELDR.
Even if right has got the majority in Europe the general shift is still more to the left then in USA, that doesn't have an equivalent of Europes far left.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: zeronio]
    #2797937 - 06/16/04 05:42 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Thanks for the reply.

So it appears that the approximate left/right split is between the orange and the dark blue bands. Correct?

In which case it would appear that the numbers have shifted to the right a bit. Or is that not correct?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2798007 - 06/16/04 07:12 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

Correct - numbers have shifted to the right. BTW currently European parlament doesn't have much influence - it's not even near to the US congress.

With the general shift in Europe I meant that here we have a slightly different definition of what is left and what is right. For example right polititians don't advocate reduction of taxes for the rich while reducing funding of social programs. On the other side some left governments reduced social standards because of bad economic situation.


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2798036 - 06/16/04 07:31 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

I don't think that you could really compare any "left wing" european parties with any "left wing" american parties. The democrats are really far right from any "left wing" party here in Denmark. I might even go as far as saying they are as right wing as one of the most right wing parties, the Conservatives. Parties like Social Democrats, or the Socialist Peoples Party - parties that are considered just left of centre here - would be considered extremely left wing in the States.

Denmark voted as follows (I'm too lazy to translate, but med XXX stemmer means "with XXX votes")-

1: Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, Socialdemokratiet, med 407.966 stemmer


2: Gitte Seeberg, Det Konservative Folkeparti (conservative peoplesparty), med 125.436 stemmer


3: Karin Riis-J?rgensen, Venstre (left), med 91.348 stemmer


4: Henrik Dam Kristensen, Socialdemokratiet, med 91.232 stemmer


5: Jens-Peter Bonde, Junibev?gelsen (uhh... can't really be translated... "the june movement"), med 75.363 stemmer


6: Margrete Auken, Socialistisk Folkeparti (socialistic peoplesparty), med 73.709 stemmer


7: Anders Samuelsen, Det Radikale Venstre (radical left), med 60.458 stemmer


8: Mogens Camre, Dansk Folkeparti (danish peoplesparty... freakin' facists!), med 53.714 stemmer


9: Niels Busk, Venstre (left), med 44.575 stemmer


10: Anne E. Jensen, Venstre (left), med 42.914 stemmer


11: Ole Krarup, Folkebev?gelsen mod EU (Peoples movement against the EU), med 34.719 stemmer


12: Britta Thomsen Socialdemokratiet med 12.756 stemmer


13: Ole Christensen Socialdemokratiet med 10.460 stemmer


14: Dan J?rgensen, Socialdemokratiet, 10.430 stemmer


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2798104 - 06/16/04 08:18 AM (13 years, 11 days ago)

United Kingdom
SEATS: 78 TURNOUT: 38.2% ELECTORATE: 44118453

Conservative 27
Labour 19
UK Independence Party 12
Liberal Democrat 12
Green 2
Scottish National Party 2
Plaid Cymru 1


I also found this quite amusing

Quote:

It is extremely patronising to suggest that people who voted out of a very deep and clear conviction or commitment are wasting their vote or protesting....

We are the only party throughout the election that had a very clear, straightforward policy. We are the only party that talked about Europe and didn't actually tell any lies. - Robert Kilroy-Silk, victorious candidate for Britain's Euro-sceptic UK Independence Party




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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #3381410 - 11/18/04 09:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

looks like the euros are alot more conservative than i thought. i guess i watch to much BBC news.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleGijith
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Registered: 12/04/03
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381423 - 11/18/04 09:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

or too much Fox News.

it's interesting how bias on either side of the spectrum would often lead someone to the same conclusion.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?


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InvisibleAntiMeme
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Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: Hey Europeans [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381468 - 11/18/04 10:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

As zeronio and Krishna pointed out, conservatives in Europe are pretty much all far to the left of your Democratic party.

I vote conservative where I live, but the politics of the party I vote for would probably be called socialist by the right wingers here (although that's more to do with the warped view of 'socialism' created by the anti-communism Americans are indoctrinated with than the politics of that party).


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3381481 - 11/18/04 10:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

what is tony blair?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleAntiMeme
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Posts: 208
Re: Hey Europeans [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381543 - 11/18/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

He's from the 'Labour party', a party with the absurd communist idea that social democracy is a good idea.

But he won't be representing them much longer.


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381564 - 11/18/04 10:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Labour. He is kind of like the British Bill Clinton. A centrist from a moderately left-leaning party.

I actually met a professor at my university who was German and supported the war in Iraq. That really surprised me.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3381682 - 11/18/04 10:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AntiMeme said:
He's from the 'Labour party', a party with the absurd communist idea that social democracy is a good idea.





well i'd argue that social democracy has served Scandanavia quite well... i guess the top 3% of the population would disagree, but for the most part, the bototm 97% digs it :smile:


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: Krishna]
    #3381743 - 11/18/04 10:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

krisna did that 97% exploit anybody to get what they have?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3381806 - 11/18/04 11:06 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

:grin: we've all exploited the earth to get what we have

the idea behind Scandanavian-style social democracy (which I certainly don't think is an ideal system, but is perhaps a better place to start from than, say, where the US is today) is to set up a large social support network - support students fully , have a large social-welfare program, free universal health-care, etc - so that all members of society are able to "be all that they can be" - the idea being that by creating an educated, healthy, and financially secure population, the society-at-large will be best served...
for example, the norwegian government has created a large "trust-fund" with all of the money it has made off of oil - instead of that money going to just 1% of the population, as it does in many oil-producing countries, that money is set aside to insure the social-safety net for the norwegian population for generations to come. i'm trying to find a good explanation of the scandinavian political system, but can't find anything right now... i'll edit this post later on if i find one


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InvisibleAntiMeme
yankee doodledandy
Registered: 08/11/04
Posts: 208
Re: Hey Europeans [Re: Krishna]
    #3381812 - 11/18/04 11:07 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Please, be careful.. you might cause severe cognitive dissonance for the right wing nuts here. Or maybe they're of the impression that they're on the winning team?

I saw a Danish documentary that wondered why the really dirt poor of the US tended to vote republican. They visited areas like the Appalachians where the kids have malnutritional syndroms seen almost exclusively there and in Africa.

The political researchers interviewed, who had surveyed these people, had only two explanations for why they essentially are voting against themselves. First one was pride, they didn't want handouts from anybody. Second one was 'being on the winning team' (ie. being on the team of those who 'win' in society). Whatever the reason, I pity their children.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3381829 - 11/18/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

krinsa i like the way you explain things.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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InvisibleKrishna
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Re: Hey Europeans [Re: AntiMeme]
    #3381831 - 11/18/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

there is a really great book by a Danish author (I can't remember his name off the top of my head...) called "American Pictures", where he went hitchhiking through the United States, staying both with the extremely rich and the extremely poor - definitely check it out if you haven't before (it might be the same guy who made this film you were talking about)


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