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OfflineShreddr1
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Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize?
    #27956950 - 09/19/22 03:11 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

This is my first attempt.
64 qt. monotub.
Spawn: Purchased 3 lb. rye berries spawn bag.
Substrate: 4" high 2/3 manure compost (Black Cow); 1/3 vermiculite; 1/2 lb. gypsum
Substrate was mixed with distilled water until tight squeeze dripped just a little (tested after pasteurization).
Substrate was pasteurized in oven @ 170° F for 2.25 hours (timed from after substrate reached 160° F).
Tub was filled in bathroom tub after liberal application of 70% alcohol all over shower, spawn bag and monotub.

6 2" holes in the monotub are taped with plastic packing tape.

The mycelium grew so that white mycelium was thick all over the bag.
I mixed it so the white pretty much disappeared, before opening it.
I added berries, substrate, berries, substrate, berries; mixed just a bit and then added about a 1/2" of substrate to the top over the berries.

I put the cover on the tub and have not taken it off since I did it.
That was 10 days ago.
The tub is in the light during the day.
The sides and top are covered with condensation. I can see through the edges.

I see just a little white colonization in 2 corners and it looks right to me (like a small web).
I still see nothing else; no sign of colonization.
I can't really take pics because of the condensation.

Is this normal? How long should I wait?
Is there anything else I can do to make the mycelium colonize?


Edited by Shreddr1 (09/19/22 12:33 PM)


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OfflineKROM
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1] * 2
    #27956988 - 09/19/22 05:30 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

You can remove the lid to take a picture. Do you have any pictures of the bag as it was colonizing? Also, in the future, it’s not necessary to douse everything with isopropyl alcohol when you’re spawning. Supposing your grain is fully colonized and you’re using a substrate with negligible nutrition (like coir and vermiculite), it should be resistant to contamination. And you don’t need to layer grain and substrate. You can just mix that shit up, flatten it out, then throw on your top layer if you wish, flatten out the top layer and leave it to chill. Additionally, as far as I understand, manure is not necessary or advantageous for growing cubensis.


--------------------
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼    🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: KROM]
    #27957011 - 09/19/22 07:03 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Pictures of your spawn and tubs would tell us sooo much more than you can with words.  It sounds like you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended), so you probably have weak or contaminated spawn that is not capable of colonizing your substrate.  Combine that with a low spawn/substrate ratio and you get a stalled tub.


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: PBJ710] * 1
    #27957032 - 09/19/22 07:34 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The mycelium grew so that white mycelium was thick all over the bag



mmmm bacteria
:weirdout:


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: bakedbeings] * 2
    #27957038 - 09/19/22 07:40 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Delete this gif NOW


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OfflineJaksavage
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1] * 1
    #27957090 - 09/19/22 08:51 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I know nothing really but

Usually a nutritious substrate isn't recommended @ Here

You have started your experiment and now you just have to wait and see what happens.

Chance of contamination is high and time to fruit could be long.

Welcome and enjoy


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OfflineShreddr1
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Jaksavage]
    #27957170 - 09/19/22 10:27 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)"
No, I shot spores I bought and it took about 1 month.
Spawn to Substrate Ratio?? Hmm, it was a 3 lb. spawn bag and 64qt. tub filled to 4".

"mmmm bacteria" Based on what? It looked like all the youtube examples I saw.

The biggest reason I used manure was $$. I'm broke! lol.
If I knew where I could get CHEAP Coco Coir I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Should it have fully colonized by now?

I don't have any pics of the bag. It looked a lot like this but not quite as thick:


Here is the tub:




Edited by Shreddr1 (09/19/22 12:34 PM)


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OfflineScrewup
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1] * 1
    #27957173 - 09/19/22 10:30 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

You can not convince me that is not delicious brownies in a pan.


Do you not think youtube examples could be bad examples?Your substrate looks bad, your image of what the bag looked like is bad, and shooting spores to grain is bad. Overall you may get fruits though.


Edited by Screwup (09/19/22 10:32 AM)


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OfflineBoySage
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1]
    #27957189 - 09/19/22 10:48 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Some clarification on why spore syringes directly to grain isn't recommended.

If the bag looked somewhat like that picture, the thick growth of the mycelium and the yellow metabolites are signs of bacterial contamination. Just for further clarification, I know this can be confusing, I started just like you with YouTube and have since learned a bit.

BUT since you're already here... common practice these days seems to be spawning to fruiting conditions. I'm not 100% what your setup is just from the pictures, but maybe some FAE (fresh air exchange) could help with colonization. It did make a difference with my tubs. So if you have any holes taped up or something like that, switch the tape for micropore tape or polyfill. Apart from that, all you can do is wait and hope for the best at this point.
Also CVG is likely the best kinds substrate for cubes, as mentioned. Where are you located? Maybe someone can help you out with finding cheap sources. What's the budget?


--------------------
New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying :wink:

Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1] * 1
    #27957228 - 09/19/22 11:25 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shreddr1 said:
"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)"
No, I shot spores bought from dont mention vendors in the forum and it took about 1 month. MS = multispore = spore syringe. his comment was accurate

"mmmm bacteria" Based on what? It looked like all the youtube examples I saw. spores come with bacteria. thick myc is a symptom of bacteria. the photo you provided as a reference is a perfect example of bacterial spawn

The biggest reason I used manure was $$. I'm broke! lol.
If I knew where I could get CHEAP Coco Coir I wouldn't be opposed to it. if you want to grow cheaply and reliably there is a link in my sig you should try


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OfflineShreddr1
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: bakedbeings]
    #27957266 - 09/19/22 12:06 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

"yellow metabolites" Thanks, there was no yellow and it wasn't quite that thick.
It's surprising to see that girl was wrong. She was so cute! lol

"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)" I understand thanks; then how?

"Your substrate looks bad" why?

"switch the tape for micropore tape or polyfill." To get it to colonize? I thought that was to get it to 'fruit'.

"Where are you located" Central Florida, USA. Home Depot, Lowes & Ace Hardware do not stock coco coir or vermiculite. I got the vermiculite on Amazon - not too cheap.

So, I've opened the lid once now, to take the pics. Should I replace the packing tape on the holes with polyfill (which I have) to get it to colonize?

Should I mist it with distilled water again? How much?

Again, how long should it take to fully colonize? Should it be fully colonized now (10 days)?


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1]
    #27957277 - 09/19/22 12:20 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shreddr1 said:
"yellow metabolites" Thanks, there was no yellow and it wasn't quite that thick.
It's surprising to see that girl was wrong. She was so cute! lol yeah theres a lot of bad info out there. youtube is full of it

"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)" I understand thanks; then how? look at my sig

"Your substrate looks bad" why? because it sure dont look good. in fact ive never seen anything that looks like the pics you posted

"switch the tape for micropore tape or polyfill." To get it to colonize? I thought that was to get it to 'fruit'. theres no actual difference between "colonization" and "fruiting" conditions. the sub will colonize then fruit

"Where are you located" Central Florida, USA. Home Depot, Lowes & Ace Hardware do not stock coco coir or vermiculite. I got the vermiculite on Amazon - not too cheap. verm is a luxury. straight coir works great

So, I've opened the lid once now, to take the pics. Should I replace the packing tape on the holes with polyfill (which I have) to get it to colonize? tbh the type of tape you have on it isnt going make a huge impact here

Should I mist it with distilled water again? How much? mist whenever the surface looks dry

Again, how long should it take to fully colonize? Should it be fully colonized now (10 days)? theres no set time for colonization. just keep the conditions steady and it will either colonize or contam or stall, my money is on one of the latter two




my best advice to you is to put this tub aside, see what happens for shits and giggs, and in the meantime learn PF TEK so you can have a decent chance of actually getting mushrooms. all 3 links in my sig are reccd reading


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: bakedbeings] * 1
    #27957280 - 09/19/22 12:21 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

and plz edit your post to not include vendors names. themz the rulez


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OfflineBoySage
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1]
    #27957289 - 09/19/22 12:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shreddr1 said:
"yellow metabolites" Thanks, there was no yellow and it wasn't quite that thick.
It's surprising to see that girl was wrong. She was so cute! lol

"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)" I understand thanks; then how?

"Your substrate looks bad" why?

"switch the tape for micropore tape or polyfill." To get it to colonize? I thought that was to get it to 'fruit'.

"Where are you located" Central Florida, USA. Home Depot, Lowes & Ace Hardware do not stock coco coir or vermiculite. I got the vermiculite on Amazon - not too cheap.

So, I've opened the lid once now, to take the pics. Should I replace the packing tape on the holes with polyfill (which I have) to get it to colonize?

Should I mist it with distilled water again? How much?

Again, how long should it take to fully colonize? Should it be fully colonized now (10 days)?



Yellow or not, thick or not. MSS contain contaminants. No way to tell, but it can work. It's unreliable though and therefore not advised. Again, doesn't mean it will certainly fail.

PF Tek or clean out your culture on agar, before transfering it to grain.

Can't comment on the substrate. No experience with what you're using, but it seems very dense. That's about all I can comment here.

As I said, people spawn directly to fruiting conditions nowadays. Both air and light will not harm colonizing, on the contrary, they help. You just limit airflow a little more (by packing polyfill tightly or using multiple layers of micropore tape) until full colonization, then increase FAE to encourage pinning (by loosening polyfill or removing some layers of micropore).

Not located in US, so can't help there, maybe someone else can.

I'd say yes. Increasing FAE certainly won't hurt it. (Although I don't know if that's true for different substrates, it's true for CVG and the likes)

Misting only if it's too dry. Can't really tell cuz of substrate ur using. If field capacity was proper at spawn, you should be fine.

Colonization varies a lot. Impossible to tell, but 10 days isn't too long for sure. I taped my first tub shut and it took a whole month. Second I used polyfill (learned, like you are doing right now) for the holes and it was done in 2 weeks.

Lastly and most importantly... learn to use the search function, keep reading and asking quesitons. Eventually the puzzle will get solved. And patience, lots of patience.

Hope this is helpful. Feel free to message me if you need more help. I'm still new myself, but I'll try my best =)


--------------------
New to growing and new to the forum, advanced at enjoying :wink:

Appreciate all the input I can get. Willing to ask (possibly annoying) questions, but also good at taking shit.

Thanks fam!


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OfflineShreddr1
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: BoySage] * 1
    #27957315 - 09/19/22 12:41 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Thanks for all the replies.
Guess I'm gonna have to learn PF Tec.

Bakedbeings: I'll study all 3 of your links. Thanks for posting them.

I'm removing the tape and replacing it with polyfill. Again, thanks.

"learn how to use the search function" lol - sorry, guess I'm a little lazy.


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OfflineJaksavage
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1] * 1
    #27957325 - 09/19/22 12:47 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Tubs can take a month or more to colonize.

Patience is required in this hobby.

PF tek:rockon:


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Jaksavage] * 1
    #27957353 - 09/19/22 01:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

learn how to use the search function" lol - sorry, guess I'm a little lazy.




searching the site helps make your own threads more productive. read as much as you can and when you get lost ask questions. ppl here like helping out especially when the questions are informed


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OfflineJim I.T.I
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: bakedbeings] * 1
    #27957468 - 09/19/22 02:08 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

everyone has given you great advice.

i'm a noob getting better each time. that said, your tub looks like my first 2 tubs which i burried under a tree after they went 2 months and never fully colonized, then regressed and never fruited.

to address your question on timing. i spawned grain to a tub 13 days ago, just used coco coir and vermiculite. the first fruit dropped its veil and got picked today. But, i did everything "right" on this. my first ever growing attempted took 75 days from inoculation to fruit. i did not do everything remotely "right"

current grow has been 34 days total (since innoculating the grains), the 13 days since spawning is in that 34 day total.

lastly, i buy vermiculite cheap at walmart. sometimes they have coco coir bricks. but mostly i buy coco coir bricks at a local gardening store. also cheap. verm is like $4-5 bucks a bag and coir is about $12 for 3xs 650g bricks.

so the time, well it depends on many variables. i've seen 75 days, 35 days...and no fruit at all ever and start over. get your techniques down and your tub will colonize dramatically faster.

be OCD clean AF, and be patient. Good luck


--------------------
Be patient & Let it happen


Edited by Jim I.T.I (09/19/22 02:10 PM)


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OfflineDeez_Nutz
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Shreddr1]
    #27957628 - 09/19/22 03:58 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Shreddr1 said:
"you shot MS directly into vendor grain bags (not recommended)"

Should it have fully colonized by now?

I don't have any pics of the bag. It looked a lot like this but not quite as thick:


Here is the tub:







I'm sure everyone's answered this already but yes putting spores to grain is absolutely multispore (MS) to grain...🤦

That spawn bag is outright disgusting that motherfucker is extremely bacterial.

In my opinion big tubs like 66qt suck ass especially for first time growers / beginners I like the 32qt it's easier to keep surface conditions I've never had good luck with a big stupid tub. You still get shit tons of mushrooms from smaller tubs and it's so much easier to deal with you know just for future reference.

Also for future reference all answers to how long your tub will take are all going to be hypothetical because everyone's conditions are going to be at least a little bit different so no one's going to have exactly the same times per stage.

But considering that spawn was so nasty maybe you'll get a fruit if you're lucky if not build a little spot outside dump that shit out in the yard maybe you'll get some fruits randomly...

Also potentially already answered but did you put a thick casing later on? Because it looks like you put a thick casing layer on...


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Invisiblebakedbeings
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Re: Monotub - how long till Golden Teachers colonize? [Re: Deez_Nutz] * 3
    #27957678 - 09/19/22 04:29 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sure everyone's answered this already but yes putting spores to grain is absolutely multispore (MS) to grain...🤦



you can read other replies to not spam up the thread with redundant answers


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