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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential
#27936788 - 09/06/22 07:48 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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So I shared this idea on my YT but since discussion isn't very easy on that platform I'm posting this on a few forums so others can test this idea.
This may all be bullshit but all seems viable and logical to me. I'd love if someone could test atleast the apple/banana theory next harvest of theirs
Since we already have the pathway for biosynthesis of mescaline why not just facilitate the process.
In the past there have been posting on doping cacti with tyrosine or dopa however that never seems entirely plausible since it would require injecting it in core or under flesh with a large gauge and other reasons that I can't remember right now. Others suggesting mixing with DSMO but seems dangerous?
So each step of the biosynthesis to mescaline is helped by us
From tyrosine- Tyrosine hydroxylase
TH upregulated by low dose aspirin, or possibly even using black pepper to increase iron and manganese which are what regulate or initiate Tyrosine hydroxylase.
For example, the treatment of potato plants with abscisic acid (ABA) can increase the activity of DD, and TH; ultraviolet exposure increased the activity of DD; drought increased the activity of TH and DD; low-temperatures can reduce the activity of DD; and dark treatment and red light treatment can inhibit the activity of TH, and DD.1
aspirin .36g/L is 2mm this is for foliar spray (1g per 3L) calculated from some papers; also can be used to increase cold tolerance (the aspirin)
Black peppers to the soil would also help provide more iron and manganese which both up regulate TH process. I think peperine might help but can't remember any specific info. It also works as a pesticide.
So from here we have dopa
from dopa we have seen the results from keeping the cactus cuttings in the dark. My research leads me to believe that it is using NAD+ process of converting malate acid to decarboxylose the dopa. Since the cactus isn't getting light it isn't converting the malate into starch to grow however I don't believe that cacti are 100% photo-dependent and actually follow circadian rhythm. So the process of pep-NAD+ cycles happen but dopa will be used instead of malate acid in this case from lack of light might take a few days. Another way would be placing it in a closed environment with lots of KOH so that it absorbs all the CO2 also impeding the CAM process and can be left in the light. Seems harder though. So covering the section to be harvested with soil or another material to impeed light is the step to take. the dark treatment in potato would inhibit this but since in CAM I believe it is the opposite.
During the 'dark treatment' a more likely reason may just be due to the 3 months of drought. Drought increases TH and DD activity. High light, high temperatures and drought all activate the same enzymes in many other plants. With my theory the best time to harvest would be late summer after 1-2 months drought period in full sun and high temps... then 'curing' the cuttings with a bundle of apples for a month (random time everything needs testing) darkness is some plants actually inhibit TH and DD but does increase content in others
I skipped dopamine I believe since process is hydrosis rewatering is needed? I'm unsure on the process to facilitate this conversion.
Now we are at 3,4,5-trihydroxy-B-phenethylamine
from here ethylene and methylene is required to go to mescaline
from the stress of lack of water or darkness or both... ethylene would be produced on its own by the cactus however we could increase this by keeping it in a small container where the ethylene couldn't be released and further increase the concentration. We could also add apples or bananas that release ethylene similar to how people add them to unripened tomato to accelerate the process. The methylene I couldn't find a safe or common source for so allow the cactus to produce its own thru whatever process is uses. I think adding ethylene to cuttings that are being 'aged' has most possibility to have favorable results... not exactly more mescaline over 3 months dry but short time to reach the same values.
and the end result would be more? MESCALINE.
Now this is all theoretical however scientifically viable, low cost, and easy to test.
I also suggest doing this during warmer months as the enzymes responsible for these actions are more active in warmer temperatures. We tend to believe that cold helps but there are papers showing that the most accumulation of alkaloids is in hot days and hot nights vs cooler days and nights in other papers.
Some mentioned that nitrogen or nutrients favor alkaloid production and this is true with most plants and likely true even with cacti but may not be true with mescaline in specific. There are papers that show little or no extra nutrients had higher concentrations of certain alkaloids then those wit more fertilizer. Depends on the alkaloid and plant.
However keep in mind that almost all the papers I read the most alkaloids were in the plants with heavy fertilization since it had the highest amount of biomass the lower concentration was nullified and surpassed. Now you can take this as a sign that fertilizing is best but depends on your conditions. If you can fertilize great but if you are planting in remote location or funds are tight (large collection costs maybe too much for some) also be aware that fertilized plants are not always to strongest plant as far as pests and other conditions.
So even with over fed and not stressed cacti the idea of this would be to cure the cuttings in a warm location with apples or bananas to maximize mescaline conversion. Having previously used aspirin to induce stress and also up-regulate uptakes and processes of enzymes. Warm rather than cold temps since enzymes function best in warmer temps and storing in area with no light to utilize the cam process.
ABA hormone can also be applied externally and amounts tested for toxicity and effective but just stressing the plant will cause the plant to produce it.
TLDR: apply aspirin to cactus before cutting... when 'curing the cutting' in the dark add a bundle of apples or bananas.
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turtle_hermit
Psychedelic Ranger



Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 1,626
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: modern.shaman]
#27936873 - 09/06/22 09:05 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Is there a way to effectively test the amount of mescaline in a control cutting vs one cured in dark with apples or bananas? The only way would be to bioassay both cuttings and draw a conclusion? Nice write up, got links to any of the papers you mentioned?
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: turtle_hermit]
#27937384 - 09/06/22 02:59 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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To accurately draw the conclusion that curing with apples/bananas or other ethylene source you would extract a cutting at harvest then extract a cutting in just dark treatment and another with dark and apples... you wouldn't need to wait the 3 months since you would just want to prove that there is a higher amount then control and the dark without additional ethylene.
Similar to how this dude did his tests https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=808453
I'll start collecting the papers and post them... used a few but mainly just took screenshots to save for later
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turtle_hermit
Psychedelic Ranger



Registered: 06/03/10
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: modern.shaman]
#27937414 - 09/06/22 03:34 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Just read through that writeup on the Nexus, lots of very good information. I have never done extractions myself, but this is certainly a fascinating topic.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: turtle_hermit]
#27937417 - 09/06/22 03:37 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by modern.shaman (09/06/22 03:41 PM)
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: turtle_hermit]
#27937418 - 09/06/22 03:39 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
turtle_hermit said: Just read through that writeup on the Nexus, lots of very good information. I have never done extractions myself, but this is certainly a fascinating topic.
Same... another idea I have is that mescaline is a growth regulator... as the plant gets more stress and the plant adapts and increases mescaline and alkaloid content that amount will regulate the cactus' growth the follow stressful condition... no real proof really but dopamine has proven to do this with plants so why not other alkaloids.
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turtle_hermit
Psychedelic Ranger



Registered: 06/03/10
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: modern.shaman]
#27937940 - 09/06/22 10:10 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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The user on the Nexus also noted (as an aside) that the higher mescaline content came from a shade grown specimen. I had not considered that lighting would have a direct impact on mescaline content.
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modern.shaman
San Mescalito




Registered: 05/09/12
Posts: 3,224
Loc: Zone 13
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Re: Increasing Mescaline Biosynthesis to Genetic Potential [Re: turtle_hermit]
#27938401 - 09/07/22 09:15 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think that it's been tested directly but with other plants there were studies showing that some alkaloids increased under greenhouse shade...
everything place a factor now how much of a factor needs to be tested
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