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OfflineSymPlayTon
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Re: Initial results [Re: wazmo]
    #27946767 - 09/12/22 12:01 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Definitly an interesting test!  It appears to provide an increase in yield, but I wonder if that only pushed yield in first flush and subsequent flushes will result in a balance. 

I think scaling up is the next logical progression.  A full bin of electrical vs non. 

I think a way to measure the total KW usage over the grow period would be beneficial as well. 

To allow a cost comparison of the electricity to the growth media.  Maybe test different voltages and pulse cycles.


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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Initial results [Re: wazmo]
    #27947275 - 09/12/22 06:35 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'd love to see those results from 2 tubs, 1 with power and 1 without.


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Initial results [Re: SymPlayTon] * 1
    #27950414 - 09/14/22 08:15 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I do want to scale up, but that's got to wait until I can do reliable grows. My experimental technique (zapping only half the shoebox) is reasonable IMO, as it provides its own control that experiences the same lighting, temperature, and humidity.

The energy usage is minimal. Using my Kill-a-Watt, I measure 3W while running. Let's do some back-of-envelope math:

3W * 2hr * 5 days = 30 Wh = 0.03 kWh

I pay around $0.11/kWh for electricity. So that's approximately $0.03 for a 5 day treatment. Or approximately 3¢ per grow.

The cost of equipment amortization over the unit's lifetime would be a much higher figure. I spent about $30 in parts (including an estimated $6 for the 12V power supply I already had on hand). And another 2+ hours of assembly and testing. Figuring $50/hr for my time, that comes to maybe $150 for the unit. Assuming it'd live for 5 years, that's $30/year.


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Initial results [Re: wazmo] * 3
    #27950647 - 09/15/22 12:55 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I want to comment here but I just feel my opinion will be seen as overly negative.
This was not a controlled experiment in anyway and the results should ultimately taken for a grain of salt.


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InvisiblefahtsterM
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Re: Initial results [Re: DERRAYLD] * 4
    #27950657 - 09/15/22 01:19 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:

I’m all about experimenting because it’s fun and gives us stuff to do and sometimes cool stuff comes out of it but the thought of you scaling up sounds expensive and unnecessary

0 electricity through this tub


You just need to find good genetics and provide correct ratios and growing conditions with clean spawn and the sub will give the best performance without gimmicks

When I started growing, gimmicks were a dime a dozen because we hadn’t really figured out that we just need the things listed above.  Hell, I was the first one to use wax paper :facepalm: 

I just don’t see any kind of proof the electricity even works.. the myc in that area could have grown those fruits there anyway or you could’ve had an even better flush without the electricity

I don’t want to be negative either.. I promise it’s tough love tho.  I wanna see you kill it


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OfflineSymPlayTon
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Re: Initial results [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27952152 - 09/15/22 10:17 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
I want to comment here but I just feel my opinion will be seen as overly negative.
This was not a controlled experiment in anyway and the results should ultimately taken for a grain of salt.





I agree.  That is why I am curious about the "more" of it.  The scientific method requires it to be repeatable results by other people.  If the OP could get repeat results, I would be willing to invest in validating by repeating.

That would either prove your point, or validate his experiment.  Big picture I agree that it may not matter, but fun "for science"


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InvisibleScrewdriver
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Re: Initial results [Re: SymPlayTon]
    #27952219 - 09/16/22 12:04 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

This is fascinating, could you link any of the academic papers mentioned in the OP if there's some that stand out?

Would be neat to see this done with 2 tubes for better control. Nice meter btw


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Offlinewazmo
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Academic papers [Re: Screwdriver] * 1
    #27952674 - 09/16/22 10:58 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)



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Offlinewazmo
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Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27952689 - 09/16/22 11:10 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

After harvesting the first flush on 12-Sep, I did a 3 hour dunk and began HV stimulation for about 2 hours per day (about 1000 pulses) again.

After four days of stimulation, I'm seeing a number of pins, with significantly more on the electric side (see photo). It should be interesting to see what develops.



I have ordered some 10nF 30kV ceramic capacitors; this will allow me to go up to 20kV (from 15kV) and have higher-energy pulses (right now, my 23nF 15kV pulses have an energy of 2.6 joules; 30nF @ 20kV would be 6 joules).

Thanks for all the encouragment and interest! I would love to see others repeat my experiment (and I will be scaling up to multiple containers in the near future; I've just done my first A2G transfer to some WBS jars).


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27957131 - 09/19/22 09:46 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Three more days of stimulation, and I have a couple of big fruits ready to pick.

The one on the non-electric side weighed in at 50.5g (a record for my grows)!.

The electric side has a lot more fruits than the non-electric side; I'll post my results after harvesting the rest.



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Offlinepsilocybebonsai
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo]
    #27958272 - 09/19/22 09:57 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

maybe this has been asked and answered but how were the original BRF cakes inoculated?

From what i know the tub will become a uniform mass of mycelium and it should fruit the same gene set over the whole tub, but i've seen many tubs (and have had many) that don't fruit consistently - perhaps thats exactly what the gene set is doing, or perhaps its a mix if genetics trying to fruit and some not fruiting (the bald spots in the tub)..

so, i wonder if this experiment would be better done after you've stabilized a set of genes and have grown them out several times with very consistent flushes, then also having what others have mentioned: several control tubs and several test tubs.


i know nothing, but those are my thoughts


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Offlinehalo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: psilocybebonsai]
    #27958435 - 09/20/22 01:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

cool thread, good luck with the project. Eagerly awaiting further results


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: psilocybebonsai]
    #27958476 - 09/20/22 02:34 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psilocybebonsai said:
mix if genetics trying to fruit





Always this


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: psilocybebonsai] * 1
    #27958631 - 09/20/22 07:40 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

The BRF cakes were inoculated using a LC from a Shroomery vendor. So presumably single genetics and not a mix.

Whether this gene set has a tendency to fruit unevenly, I don't know, as it's my first successful tub. (I'd had contaminated grain spawn in a few prior ones, and have since switched to WBS, which looks like it's working better).

When I'm finished with this flush, I'm considering dunking again and moving the high voltage fixture to the other end of the tub to see if it makes that end pin sooner and denser (which is what happened with this flush).

I'm getting some PE LC that I'll be trying in the future. I agree about scaling up to multiple tubs, but that will require building more HV generators (I can modify this generator to get to 20kV with 6J pulses, which should be usable with two tubs in series).


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27962217 - 09/22/22 09:40 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

OK, second flush results are in.

Electric side: 111.3g wet, 9.38g dry.
Non-electric side: 63.1g wet, 5.14g dry.

The electric side resulted in 82% greater dry weight than the non-electric side.

This is an even greater difference than the first flush, which showed 45% greater dry weight on the electric side.

I did a three hour soak on the block, then moved the high-voltage electrodes to the other side of the block to see what the effect will be on the third flush.



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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo]
    #27962257 - 09/22/22 10:16 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Good idea. If after switching side the electrode side still has greater yield, that'll be very interesting.

:popcorn:


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Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. :mushroom2:

We don't own things - things own us.

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Edited by Rusty2096 (09/22/22 11:59 AM)


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Invisiblecooleko
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: Rusty2096] * 2
    #27962320 - 09/22/22 11:22 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I think the opposite is true. If you switch now you have no way of establishing  with any credibility that the total biomass efficiency was changed under electrical stimulus.

Right now you presumably have a tub that is evenly distributed with nutrition to water. If providing electric stimuli increases the efficiency of one side while draining the other side, the tubs performance as a whole will still be the expected for the tub, for example. If you expected 80% BE for the strain, and your tub produced 80% BE overall, then you would know that electricity just makes the fruit more bodied and doesn't improve the output of the tub. However, if you produced 90% BE overall, then you could postulate that the stimuli actually improved expected performance. You really do need to take a more clinical trial based approach, though. Same bag of spawn inoculated via a stable clone across 20 different bottles/tubs. 10 electrified, 10 not. Use the control to establish average BE for that clone and the electrified to establish whether there was an improvement in performance or not.

You could find that there is no improvement in performance on a BE basis, but instead there are fewer flushes of more dense mushrooms.

Despite the rant, that is so cool that electricity may promote more bodied mushrooms. I know people water their pumpkins with buttermilk and other crazy things to win halloween contests, perhaps they should be shocking them!

*Opps, went on a tangent and didn't finish my original thought. By switching sides now, you can't establish that you aren't just using up the same nutrition faster for the electrified side. If it stalls out you are going to wonder, "is it because I didn't electrocute it or did it run out of nutrition?"


Edited by cooleko (09/22/22 11:25 AM)


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: cooleko] * 1
    #27964026 - 09/23/22 08:43 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cooleko said:
By switching sides now, you can't establish that you aren't just using up the same nutrition faster for the electrified side. If it stalls out you are going to wonder, "is it because I didn't electrocute it or did it run out of nutrition?"




Good point. I'd originally thought to use a divider in the box between the two sections; that would have made the difference clearer.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens on the third flush.

Thanks for the interest! It's an interesting idea, and I'll be pursuing it with a scaled-up experiment with better controls.

Assuming, of course, that my WBS grain spawn is clean enough to fruit...


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Second Flush pinning [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27968171 - 09/25/22 09:05 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

OK, the third flush is coming in, albeit unevenly.

I'd switched the electrode grid over to the other side (which had under-performed previously), and now I'm getting more fruits on the (newly) electrified side.



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Offlinewazmo
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Plans for next HV experiment [Re: wazmo] * 2
    #27968176 - 09/25/22 09:12 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I have three WBS quart jars nearly fully colonized, and intend to mix two of them with two quarts of coco coir, distribute evenly among 12x 1-quart plastic containers, case with more coir, and electrify half of them (wiring them in series). I figure I can put all 12 of them in a single SGFC or water tub (making sure that they're not in the water, of course) with no lids in order to say humidified.

Does this sound like a better-controlled experiment?

Here's the planned containers and electric grids:


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