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Offlinewazmo
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Experimenting with pulsed high voltage * 3
    #27934021 - 09/04/22 05:23 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I'm a new grower (with only one successful grow so far). I'm trying to improve my technique. But I'm also a nerd who has somehow come across and read a number of academic papers about using pulsed high voltage to speed fruiting and increase fruit yield in a variety of edible species.

So I'm trying an experiment with a shoebox P. cubensis grow, in which I am applying high voltage (~15kV) pulses to half of the shoebox to see whether one side will grow differently from the other, and whether the yield is any different.

The equipment is simple, consisting of a cheap 20kV electrostatic high voltage generator, a couple of 8kV 47nF capacitors in series, and a spark gap made from a couple of spark plugs. This results in a 15kV pulse every seven seconds or so.

I will be doing a more thorough write-up (with references of course), as well as publishing my data and construction details so that others can repeat my experiment.



I'm starting the pulses just as I'm starting to see pinning. We'll see what happens.


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InvisibleCowsPoopShrooms
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: wazmo]
    #27934060 - 09/04/22 05:49 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:rockon:


Edited by CowsPoopShrooms (10/14/22 07:24 PM)


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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: wazmo]
    #27934061 - 09/04/22 05:50 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Are you not worried that high voltage will travel across the whole tub? I know water isn't a good conductor but still is one. Maybe electricity could also use the myc itself to travel?


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: Rusty2096] * 1
    #27934134 - 09/04/22 06:26 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Because I set up the electrode grid at 30 mm spacing for the half of the tub that is being subjected to high voltage pulses, I know where the high voltage is going to go. It goes out one lead into half the electrode grid, across the mycelia and back via the other half of the electrode grid.

Initially, I thought that I might want to separate the halves by the use of a barrier in the middle, but I’m not doing that right now. We’ll see what happens.


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OfflineRusty2096
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: wazmo]
    #27934141 - 09/04/22 06:31 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Fair enough. Will be waiting for results :popcorn:


--------------------
Currently looking for nothing. You guys who sent me stuff are straight up awesome!. :mushroom2:

We don't own things - things own us.

Semi-solid liquid culture (SSLC)


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OfflineJacubey
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: Rusty2096]
    #27934313 - 09/04/22 08:09 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:threadmonitor:


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: Jacubey]
    #27934605 - 09/05/22 12:45 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Why only apply voltage to half the tub?
You do realize that the entire tub is conductive so you won't get any kind of real separation.


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Offlineschpat
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #27934661 - 09/05/22 02:14 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I know you've already started and have your sub colonised, but if you are open to input you may want to try separate boxes for you test and control.  Even better for experimental purposed would be 5 test boxes and 5 control boxes.

Go nerds!!!


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OfflineDERRAYLD
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: schpat]
    #27934763 - 09/05/22 03:28 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

In a side note, as a new grower you may not know the variables and what it takes to produce consistent flushes so how will you gage the effectiveness of the grow with or without electrical stimulus?


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: DERRAYLD] * 1
    #27934998 - 09/05/22 08:39 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

The current is only being applied to half the tub, through electrodes that are a bed of stainless steel pins. The rows of pins are connected to opposing leads of the high voltage pulse generator. The other half of the tub doesn't have the pins, so it won't see any current. I did wonder whether the connected mycelia would communicate between the half with the electrodes and the other half, but I didn't do anything to separate them. Depending on the results from this trial, I could try putting a divider in the middle or using separate shoeboxes for the next run.


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: DERRAYLD] * 1
    #27935002 - 09/05/22 08:40 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DERRAYLD said:
In a side note, as a new grower you may not know the variables and what it takes to produce consistent flushes so how will you gage the effectiveness of the grow with or without electrical stimulus?



That's why I am only applying current to half the box. I'm going to compare the results in each half.


Edited by wazmo (09/05/22 08:41 AM)


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: schpat] * 1
    #27935006 - 09/05/22 08:43 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

schpat said:
I know you've already started and have your sub colonised, but if you are open to input you may want to try separate boxes for you test and control.  Even better for experimental purposed would be 5 test boxes and 5 control boxes.

Go nerds!!!



I hope to get to the point where I can make shoeboxes that are consistent. This box was made from six shredded BRF cakes and coco coir; my attempts with grain and liquid culture have resulted in heavily bacterial boxes that never fruit (though they do produce trichoderma pretty well).


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: wazmo]
    #27935225 - 09/05/22 11:34 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:camping:


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Links For Beginners And Beyond


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Offlinecozmyc
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: rumfor69]
    #27935518 - 09/05/22 02:45 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Is this made from cloned material? It will be hard to tell the effects unless you have the culture narrowed down to produce consistent flushes first. Then I would do separate boxes with exact same ratios. :popcorn:


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You're conscious population 2 stardust
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and that's valuable :sunny:


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Offlinewazmo
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Interesting electrical characteristics [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27935880 - 09/05/22 06:16 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Using an oscilloscope to monitor the current applied to the fungi, I discovered that the pulses were under 100ns long, and had a peak magnitude of around 20,000A (!). This was quite surprising, as the widely spaced electrodes shouldn't have resulted in a DC resistance of less than 1Ω (15,000V / 20,000A = 0.75Ω). I tried to measure the DC resistance of the tub, but discovered that it was highly capacitive. Of course, the capacitance explained the high pulse currents! Obviously, 100ns/7s is a very small duty cycle; averaging the 20kA current over the entire 7s period results in an equivalent average current of 285µA and an average voltage of only 214µV.

I then measured the half-tub's impedance (both as an R/C series model and an R/C parallel model) with a Rohde & Schwarz HM8118 LCR meter. The equivalent series capacitance was still about 4µF (!) at 1kHz test frequency. Here's the graph of both the series and parallel model. It looks like the actual DC resistance is about 234Ω, so the pulses are only charging the mycelial capacitance.

Here's my LCR meter readings:


Edited by wazmo (09/05/22 06:21 PM)


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Offlinewazmo
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: cozmyc]
    #27935882 - 09/05/22 06:18 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cozmyc said:
Is this made from cloned material? It will be hard to tell the effects unless you have the culture narrowed down to produce consistent flushes first. Then I would do separate boxes with exact same ratios. :popcorn:




This was inoculated from a liquid culture from a Shroomery vendor. Being able to compare both halves of the box should compensate for differences in strains.


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OfflineRotnpins
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Re: Experimenting with pulsed high voltage [Re: wazmo]
    #27938300 - 09/07/22 08:04 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

:camping:


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Offlinewazmo
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First fruits [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27940899 - 09/08/22 06:00 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Well, they're coming in, but not as evenly as I'd hoped. Any suggestions on how to harvest these, when some are considerably earlier than others, but all are joined at the base? Should I cut off the ones that have opened already and wait for the rest, or what?
Sorry if this is a noob question...


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Offlineschpat
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Re: First fruits [Re: wazmo]
    #27941339 - 09/09/22 12:50 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

AS you only have a small tub and want as many shrooms as possible you could just carefully cut out the mature ones and wait a could days for the rest to catch up.


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Offlinewazmo
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Initial results [Re: wazmo] * 1
    #27946571 - 09/12/22 09:32 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

I've finished harvesting the first flush. Because of the clustering and low sample size (N=1), I don't think there's any firm conclusions possible without more experimentation. The non-electric side took a couple of days longer to mature; I harvested the individual fruits at about the same level of maturity using a scalpel to cut them off at the base, then cut the bases of the clusters off when no fruits remained. I dried everything.

After the first flush harvest, I dunked the block for three hours and am zapping the box for a couple of hours (about 1000 zaps) per day; we'll see what the second flush looks like.

The first flush didn't get zapped until I started to see pinning; I am curious as to whether we'll see any electric effects upon time to pin.

The first flush results for those who are curious:

Wet weight: 137g electric vs. 101g non-electric (36% higher in the electric section)

Dry weight: 12.76g electric vs. 8.82g non-electric (45% higher in the electric section)


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