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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #27927679 - 08/31/22 02:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Like criticizing their dictator.



You can criticize Putin in Russia.  I saw Western media outlets in Russia doing it all the time, and I saw street protests against Putin when I was there.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: koods] * 1
    #27927680 - 08/31/22 02:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
More gaslighting from falcon


News outlets leaving Russia amid free press crackdown



Right, Western media are leaving because they are no longer allowed to make believe.

Scott Ritter complained that RT.com is notorious for forcing him to back up anything he writes for them with evidence.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27927700 - 08/31/22 03:22 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

A criminal case has been opened against a Siberian journalist whose news website had published content critical of Russia's military operation in Ukraine, Russian media reported on Thursday.




https://www.voanews.com/amp/russian-authorities-arrest-journalist-for-reports-on-ukraine/6531167.html


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27927707 - 08/31/22 03:30 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

A criminal case has been opened against a Siberian journalist whose news website had published content critical of Russia's military operation in Ukraine, Russian media reported on Thursday.




https://www.voanews.com/amp/russian-authorities-arrest-journalist-for-reports-on-ukraine/6531167.html




Shit... He might get Julian Assanged...

Or, got fodbid.. Snowdened

Edited by Bigbadwooof (08/31/22 03:30 PM)

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27927728 - 08/31/22 03:48 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

He got in trouble for writing fake news about the war he heard about the West, not for reporting that 11 soldiers refused to fight.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27927768 - 08/31/22 04:12 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
He got in trouble for writing fake news about the war he heard about the West, not for reporting that 11 soldiers refused to fight.




I don't really give a shit if he got arrested for saying Putin smells funny. This thread isn't about fucking Russia. It's about America.

It really disturbs me, how many people around here eat up this garbage of, "You think Democrats are bad... well, just LOOK at those REPUBLICANS!" horse SHIT! Both parties ARE garbage.

Both parties concentrate wealth, to the point where we now have 3 men worth as much as half of Americans combined. Both parties have obscenely wealthy, corrupt politicians serving in Washington. The revolving door operates the same, whether Democrats or Republicans are running things.

We need a LABOR centric party in America.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #27927798 - 08/31/22 04:31 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

:raisemyglass:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27927813 - 08/31/22 04:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I don't know what the correct solution looks like but I don't think it can include forcing an entity to publish or continue to publish hate speech, for example.  What we have is what we've always had.  Mass media, especially news media is owned and controlled by a handful of very wealthy people who also happen to spend a lot of money influencing the workings of government more directly.  They ultimately choose what gets published and what doesn't even if its through layers of delegation.  Social media isn't fundamentally different other than the public participation aspect.  At the end of the day, the publisher gets to decide what to publish and what to edit.


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27927825 - 08/31/22 04:45 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't know what the correct solution looks like but I don't think it can include forcing an entity to publish or continue to publish hate speech, for example.



I think most of us can agree that it's ok to ban hate speech.  And I think most of us can agree that it's ok to ban shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

But some of us believe the major social media platforms shouldn't ban non-establishment narratives.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27927844 - 08/31/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Shit... He might get Julian Assanged...

Or, got fodbid.. Snowdened




Maybe , if they are lucky .

Quote:

March 19, 2007

Did you know that nearly twice as many Russian journalists were killed in the 1990s when Boris Yeltsin was president of Russia as in the seven years of Vladimir Putin’s presidency? According to the records of the Committee to Protect Journalists, a New York–based organization that tracks violations against free journalism around the world, in Yeltsin’s Russia, 42 journalists were killed and 3 disappeared. Since Mr. Putin became president, 22 journalists have been killed and 2 disappeared. As in the Yeltsin years, the motivations for the great majority of these tragic killings are tied to the wars in Chechnya and/or criminal activities. And, as in the Yeltsin years, almost none of these murders has been solved. The truth is that in Putin’s Russia, like Yeltsin’s Russia, being an investigative journalist is a very dangerous profession. And today, as in the 1990s, Russia’s ramshackle legal system provides virtually no incentive for investigators to solve the crimes. They would only discover the same dangerous information that the journalists did, and you can bet they are not counting on the Russian legal system to protect them in that event.




https://www.csis.org/analysis/dead-journalists-putins-russia


--------------------

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27928003 - 08/31/22 06:50 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't know what the correct solution looks like but I don't think it can include forcing an entity to publish or continue to publish hate speech, for example.



I think most of us can agree that it's ok to ban hate speech.  And I think most of us can agree that it's ok to ban shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

But some of us believe the major social media platforms shouldn't ban non-establishment narratives.




Here's something kind of interesting... Inciting violence (Via hate speech) is illegal. If someone were to use hate speech to incite violence, through a social media platform, the platform isn't liable. The owners of facebook are not the ones who used the platform to incite violence. The views aren't attributed to them.

That kind of defeats the argument that the views of posters are a reflection of the platform.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
I don't know what the correct solution looks like but I don't think it can include forcing an entity to publish or continue to publish hate speech, for example.  What we have is what we've always had.  Mass media, especially news media is owned and controlled by a handful of very wealthy people who also happen to spend a lot of money influencing the workings of government more directly.  They ultimately choose what gets published and what doesn't even if its through layers of delegation.  Social media isn't fundamentally different other than the public participation aspect.  At the end of the day, the publisher gets to decide what to publish and what to edit.




What a let down Balls... I was hoping you'd let out some FARTS or something. Lame.

Anyway, social media IS fundamentally different, because it is a modern form of telecommunication between citizens. It's almost like AT&T telling people they can't say, "Donald Trump is a cunt" over the telephone.

I think that is the most critical difference in perspective here. Some consider social media platforms to be like a newspaper, I consider it to be more like a telephone. In reality, social media is a combination of both, and therefore, it seems to me, to be a grey area. It seems that it would be fairly easy to legislate in either direction.

I wonder... Would it be legal for AT&T to disallow certain verbiage to be used over their telephone lines? I have no idea what the answer is to that, but it would surely cause quite a stir.

There are two potential solutions, which have already been proposed. One of those solutions is to use antitrust legislation to break up social media companies. It is drastic, but I am not opposed to this one bit. We can clearly see the powerful way in which news organizations can influence elections. I'm certain none of us like the dirty things they do during election season. We shouldn't be apathetic about doing something about this new, powerful influence.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27928017 - 08/31/22 06:58 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

:awesomenod:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27928027 - 08/31/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

What is it that you like about the post? The part where it proves everything you think you know about how the internet works is wrong?

If you read the post and apply that knowledge to how things actually work it paints a fairly clear picture. And it’s not the one you think it is.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27928030 - 08/31/22 07:06 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
What is it that you like about the post? The part where it proves everything you think you know about how the internet works is wrong?

If you read the post and apply that knowledge to how things actually work it paints a fairly clear picture. And it’s not the one you think it is.




Go on. :popcorn:


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Free Speech [Re: christopera]
    #27928050 - 08/31/22 07:17 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
What is it that you like about the post? The part where it proves everything you think you know about how the internet works is wrong?

If you read the post and apply that knowledge to how things actually work it paints a fairly clear picture. And it’s not the one you think it is.



Go on.  :popcorn:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27928054 - 08/31/22 07:22 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

How many websites are you going to take down to attempt free speech? Think about it.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #27928060 - 08/31/22 07:25 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
What is it that you like about the post? The part where it proves everything you think you know about how the internet works is wrong?

If you read the post and apply that knowledge to how things actually work it paints a fairly clear picture. And it’s not the one you think it is.



Go on.  :popcorn:




Facebook servers are moved out of the US. Does the US have any power to regulate their content? Or are we going full Russia here?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: christopera]
    #27928071 - 08/31/22 07:33 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
How many websites are you going to take down to attempt free speech? Think about it.




I don't know, but it's not some abstract crazy idea. It's been proposed in congress.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Free Speech [Re: christopera] * 1
    #27928075 - 08/31/22 07:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

christopera said:
What is it that you like about the post? The part where it proves everything you think you know about how the internet works is wrong?

If you read the post and apply that knowledge to how things actually work it paints a fairly clear picture. And it’s not the one you think it is.



Go on.  :popcorn:




Facebook servers are moved out of the US. Does the US have any power to regulate their content? Or are we going full Russia here?




We can regulate how they operate within the US. Lots of countries do. In fact, we already have laws that facebook has to abide by. On top of that, the company headquarters are in the US, afaik.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Free Speech [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27928083 - 08/31/22 07:39 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

You want free speech by regulating speech?

:huxleyfacepalm:


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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