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OfflineBong420
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Registered: 08/23/22
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My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan * 1
    #27916356 - 08/24/22 10:12 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

My rightwing relative and his family have never had a nice word to say about anyone on government assistance of any kind. Poor people are basically scum in their eyes. I’ve listened to these people degrade unions of any kind, the working class, basically the majority of Americans. Nobody has ever been deserving of any assistance. Welfare is government overreach and only lowlifes require it. Church donations are an adequate social safety net for struggling Americans. The rich and powerful can do no wrong.

So, in preparation to counter my rightwing relatives’ bashing of Biden and student loan forgiveness, I decided to take a look into what they were up to when the government was giving out money during covid to small businesses. It appears that my relative took $50,000 in PPP money, claiming he employs 30 people when he actually only employs 5 at the very most at any given time.

Rightwing hypocrisy at its finest. Not good people.

Motherfucker went out and bought a new house using the money as part of the down payment. His business was never in danger of facing any downtime due to covid.

Edited by Bong420 (08/24/22 10:37 AM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Bong420] * 1
    #27916402 - 08/24/22 10:43 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

You may report fraud, waste, mismanagement, or misconduct involving SBA programs or employees either online or by calling the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) at 800-767-0385. You may choose to remain anonymous.




www.sba.gov

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OfflineBong420
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos]
    #27916403 - 08/24/22 10:44 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Can’t do that.

Blood is thicker than mud.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Bong420] * 1
    #27916405 - 08/24/22 10:46 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.




18 US Code 4

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OfflineBong420
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos] * 1
    #27916420 - 08/24/22 10:52 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I’m ride or die for my family and friends. I’d never narc then out. Maybe if they were abusing their kids. That’d probably be the limit.

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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
i am the liquor

Registered: 07/11/18
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Bong420] * 1
    #27916481 - 08/24/22 11:29 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

yeah, but, you just narc'd them out to all of us here


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OfflineBong420
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: split_by_nine]
    #27916496 - 08/24/22 11:41 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Not really

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Invisiblesplit_by_nine
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Bong420] * 1
    #27916503 - 08/24/22 11:45 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

you told us about their crime. thats narc'ing 101 buddy.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: split_by_nine] * 1
    #27916863 - 08/24/22 03:36 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I mean, "right wing, against welfare, small business owner, committed welfare fraud via PPP loan" is a VERY large category of people. The PPP loans, as written, were basically designed to be stolen by anybody that can afford to hire an accountant.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos]
    #27917212 - 08/24/22 07:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.




18 US Code 4



That does not create a duty to report a crime.  He would have to actively conceal the crime for that to apply.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Enlil]
    #27917964 - 08/25/22 10:40 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

That seems to be a more recently favored interpretation, and as we all know, the courts can always change their minds.

Quote:

...conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same...




Feel like I could get a lot of mileage arguing over the definition of "and" in this scenario.

I remember winning a HS debate case over the definition of the word "and". It was like a state semifinal, too. In that case, I successfully argued that the presence of the word and required both statements to be immediately true. Which would lend credence to the active concealment argument.

Of course,then the question becomes, what is "active" concealment? Is not telling someone something an active concealment?

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos]
    #27917971 - 08/25/22 10:51 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Well, I don't know how old you are, but caselaw from the 1930s certainly makes it clear that active concealment is an element of the offense.  As to your silly argument about both being immediately true, it's applicability in this case is dubious, given the fact that the statute gives a timeframe for "mak[ing] known" the offense.

As far as what active concealment means, there is a lot of case law on that as well, but I guarantee that failure to do something isn't actively doing anything.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Enlil]
    #27918404 - 08/25/22 03:39 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

does not as soon as possible make known the same




Feels like you could spin that as a duty to disclose, no?

I should go to law school. Wonder if there's a fully online program that's accredited enough to let me take the bar...

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos]
    #27918588 - 08/25/22 05:31 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

If you actively conceal,  yes... you have a duty to disclose. Otherwise,  no


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Enlil]
    #27918732 - 08/25/22 06:49 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

So

1. Dude says to another dude, I am gonna rob that bank.

2. Said Dude robs bank, and tells other Dude he did.

3. The other Dude is questioned by the police and says nothing....drops no dimes and remains silent.


......thats not concealing anything, correct?


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Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (08/25/22 06:50 PM)

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InvisibleSmartattack
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27919389 - 08/26/22 08:38 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I have a feeling that things change once the questions begin vs nobody ever asking in the first place. At least that's how my own internal law works. :lol:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27919409 - 08/26/22 08:46 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
So

1. Dude says to another dude, I am gonna rob that bank.

2. Said Dude robs bank, and tells other Dude he did.

3. The other Dude is questioned by the police and says nothing....drops no dimes and remains silent.


......thats not concealing anything, correct?



Nope.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Enlil]
    #27919478 - 08/26/22 09:33 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

That seems like reasonable law. Do you know of exceptions? I thought that public gang rape case in Massachusetts that inspired the movie, the Accused, inspired some laws regarding bystander/observors, but I can't find anything on that so I'm probably wrong. I know custodial parents can be charged if the other parent is abusing their child, and the first parent is aware of it, but that is a specific situation.


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27919550 - 08/26/22 10:13 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Seems that some state laws have a duty to report certain crimes for private citizens.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/mandaall.pdf

This says that 16-18 states have laws that mandate reporting suspected child abuse by all private citizens, for example.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: My Rightwing Relative’s PPP loan [Re: Kryptos]
    #27919652 - 08/26/22 11:19 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

There are plenty of duty to report laws, but they're all specific.  There is no general duty to report a crime.


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