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Land Trout
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subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) 4
#27906616 - 08/17/22 10:49 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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  Welcome to possibly the slowest quietest grow along thread on the shroomery. Thanks to many contributions from members in Australia and New Zeeland we have access to cultivate and spread this species or gene pool around the globe. Psilocybe subaerugonosa is very closely related to Ps. cyanescens, azurescens, allenii and others, however subaeruginosa has a much wider variation of physical characteristics including just about all the characteristics of the other species its closely related to. As far as I can tell the growth habits of subaeruginosa are as identical to cyanescens, allenii, azuerescens as any of them are to one another. Why would this be the slowest grow along, they take a long time to fruit. With all of the cyanescens family, as far as we know, need to be grown on a wood substrate which takes time for the fungi to colonize and consume enough to receive the ability to fruit, and, again as far as we know, needs a temperature drop and humidity increase held of some time in order to form primordia, and for them to grow out into fruiting bodies for us to observe. They are temperate lignicolous organisms in nature, most temperate organisms need, or benefit from seasonal changes that encourage cycles of growth, reproduction, and dormancy. The reason i include "as far as we know", our understanding of these organisms is always growing, we've learned a lot, but we know very little. Once and awhile someones patch will throw out fruits mid summer, or spring. I would hope this thread can contribute to our collective understanding of this species, its relatives, genetics, and in the end hopefully this little friends of ours can show us a deeper understanding of ourselves and how to better melt into and be a contributing organism in our own environments, and help us grasp the ability of letting our self dissolve, so we can gain a closer resemblance of oneness. There are already a lot of great threads and posts on here discussing this species so ill just drop them here Quote:
Doug295 said:
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NothingsChanged said: " Additional molecular studies published by Borovička and colleagues in 2015 identified P. azurescens, P. cyanescens, P. weraroa, P. cubensis, and P. serbica as closely related to P. allenii." Nothing mentioned of subs?
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Rumblestrip said:
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Shroomhunts said: Not from west coast but pretty sure the cyans were native to dune grass.
It's azurescens that's associated with dune grass. They were first found in the sand dunes in Astoria Oregon. Afaik azures, cyans, and allenii are very closely related to subaeruginosa. Subs are considered the parent species and the others are "scatterlings/progeny ", not sure of the correct term this early in the morning. My understanding is that potted plants or other organic material containing sub. mycelium was imported from Australia to the U.S. (and Europe) a hundred or more years ago. These scatterlings have started to or have become separate species. Azures are found in the wild in Oregon but apparently cyans and allenii are almost exclusively found in association with human activity and not found in truly wild situations. Most allenii, azures, and cyans have their distinct and fairly monotypic appearance whereas subs have many phenotypes, some of which look very similar to azures, cyans, and allenii. Cultivated allenii and azurescens fruit are pretty consistent/monotypic. Cyans will have a bit more variety but the subs will often put up a variety of phenos from the same print.
Yes, subaeruginosa, allenii, cyanescens, and azurescens are all very closely related. If you look at how the ITS sequences line up, they all cluster very closely around each other, with some examples suggesting some actual overlap. Here are a couple of screen shots showing the data (notes in red):


Regarding the NA PNW dune grass habitats, the dominant species is Ammophila arenaria, which was "introduced to the west coast of North America in l868 to stabilize dunes in the San Francisco area. The introduction came from Australia where it had been earlier introduced from Europe. Because of its ability to thrive under conditions of high wind and sand burial, the grass spread rapidly, both by natural means and through its steadily increasing use in sand stabilization projects" (https://www.ou.edu/cas/botany-micro/ben/ben183.html )
As Rumblestrip has stated and which I've stated before, regarding the monotypic nature of the NA species contrasted with the wide phenotype variation of Australian subaeruginosa. This is population genetics at work, what we call the Founder Effect, basically a genetic bottleneck resulting in reduced phenotypic variation among an introduced population. Here is a slide showing some examples of phenotype variations of subaeruginosa from Australia:

Such wide phenotype variation is normally considered strong evidence supporting a species being endemic to an area. Cleland's original 1934 description of subaeruginosa is framed within the context of it being indigenous to Australia, he found it in the wild, and subsequent references to his work draw that conclusion from it. You can see some of the phenos resembling our NA species. The following slides show further subaeruginosa phenotype examples, ones that resemble each of the NA species:



Further evidence that P.s. subaeruginosa is endemic to Australia is evidence that Australian Aboriginal groups used and/or had knowledge of psychoactive fungi:
"According to the Arunta of the Central Desert, falling stars contained an evil magic called Arungquilta. Mushrooms and toadstools were believed to be fallen stars endowed with this magic. As such, they were considered taboo and their consumption was forbidden (Spencer & Gillen, 1899, p. 566; 1904, p. 627; 1927, pp. 415–417). Although this taboo was not shared by other Aboriginal groups of the Central Desert (Kalotas, 1996, p. 1), it may have stemmed from bad experiences resulting from the consumption of poisonous or hallucinogenic mushrooms common to the area, such as Amanita phalloide, Paxillus involutus, or Psilocybe subaeruginosa. The association of mushrooms with fallen stars is not unique to the Arunta, but is found across the globe (see Beech, 1986).”(Meteors in Australian Aboriginal Dreamings. Duane W. Hamacher 1 and Ray P. Norris. WGN, the Journal of the IMO 38:3 (2010) 87. Ch 7 Meteors and Evil Magic)
Also, there is Aboriginal rock art suggesting fungi use. Regareding the Bradshaw rock art in the Kimberley region of Australia:
"Uniquely shared images between Bradshaw and Sandawe art, such as the ‘mushroom head’ symbol of psilocybin use, link the two cultures and indicate that they were shamanistic.” (Iconography in Bradshaw† rock art: breaking the circularity. Jack Pettigrew FRS. First published: 24 August 2011. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1444-0938.2011.00648.x )
Another interesting thing to consider is how the rainfall pattern between SE Australia differs from the Bay Area of California. I believe this helps to explain why the NA species have not become more naturalized, at least around the Bay Area of California. This chart shows how SE Australia gets a more evenly distributed rainfall pattern over the average year and doesn't have a seasonal drought over the summer live we do in Cali:

Anyways, sorry for the long post and maybe highjacking this thread, but I just wanted to share, I really think the case is compelling and sometimes those involved with discovering and describing species need to walk stuff back and re-classify, in the spirit of good Taxonomy and intellectual honesty. Maybe we can call it Ps. subaeruginosa ssp. allenii or something? After all it seems reasonable that they have evolved a bit over the past 100-150 years they've been in NA. But enough to be a unique species? I recon not but maybe I'm wrong.
D
New Zeeland actives 2022 Tasmania actives 2022 Victoria actives 2022 South Australia actives 2022 subaeruginosa phenotype thread Be sure to check out The Official Woodlovers Thread but be patient and take your time to digest, there's a lot of gold buried in that thing, and I encourage paying attention to the contributions by those who have been successful in cultivating these species. There's a lot of chatter in the woodlovers thread, which I hope to avoid in this one, and keep things streamlined to cultivation process what's working and what's not. Personally im as interested in killing these things as I am growing them, as I want to know their limits. But I encourage general cultivation questions to be posted to the woodlovers thread as its an already established place for that, with an established community of contributors. Special Thanks to bobwastaken, Viridis420, TrustMycelium, inski, Taz 75, and everyone else who's helped us understand this friend of ours.Here we go folks, lets see those subs!
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Land Trout
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27906630 - 08/17/22 11:06 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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. subaeruginosa cultures from three prints that originated from Australia and New Zeeland. Even the mycelium has a lot of variation when they come from the same print. Anything from wispy fuzz, to rizomorphic, to flat and dense. A lot of different speeds too. The ones labeled bell, and yellow are from the groups pictures at the top of the thread.
These fruits are subs I have grown in my yard, the spores came from someone nearby who got their spores from Australia. I’ve also collected spores from this colony and have the next generation growing in my yard near this colony. The bagged mulch in the picture was spawned untreated with grain spawn colonized In a tote and planted among rhododendron. They did not fruit the first fall in the ground. I took a couple grams recently and they really got me feeling the Coriolis effect🤣🤣🤣
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Cob
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27907391 - 08/17/22 09:53 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Damn, awesome write up on Subarus. Lots of great info, following.
ETA: Did a little reading, I'm going to have to get some P. Subaru spores to try out here. I am planning to start multiple patches of Azures, Cyans and Ovoids. I have Ovoids on Agar right now. I think I have some great spots where they should survive and possibly take off.
--------------------
****FUGGIN' FROGZ**** Trade List
Edited by Cob (08/17/22 10:24 PM)
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RescueU
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27907859 - 08/18/22 08:31 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I'm excited for this Land Trout! I also have subaeruginosa mycelium being grown from a print that made into a MSS and injected into brf jars. They grew very slowly. I transferred the parts that were growing to small tubs of cardboard and wood chips and they seem to have sped up. I'm planning on transferring them to outdoor wine/bourbon barrel planters soon.I live in the PNW and want them to be a perennial here. I'm posting my grow in the outdoor woodlover thread where I'm also growing ovoids, azures, and cyans for outdoor beds.
Good luck, and keep at it! The more we learn how to grow these the better we'll all be!
-------------------- UT ALII VIVANT
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Boobang77
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 1
#27910562 - 08/20/22 12:31 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I'm in Victoria Australia and I'm trying to get locally picked sub stem butts to colonize cardboard in small plastic containers inside as well as a small outdoor tub of mixed woodchips, all experimental just seeing if we can get enough sub myc growing to set up an outdoor garden bed. Some pics of our little containers. Any advice etc would be greatly appreciated.
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Awestruck
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout]
#27910750 - 08/20/22 06:28 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Land Trout said:
. subaeruginosa cultures from three prints that originated from Australia and New Zeeland. Even the mycelium has a lot of variation when they come from the same print. Anything from wispy fuzz, to rizomorphic, to flat and dense. A lot of different speeds too. The ones labeled bell, and yellow are from the groups pictures at the top of the thread.
Glad you know what you're looking for. If I saw that amount of phenotypic variety, I'd freak out about having contams. Really cool how different they look on agar like that. I'm looking forward to seeing how this project turns out, Land Trout.
-------------------- Repaying my karmic debt to the Shroomery. Looking for a Pan cambo print.
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wickedglass
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Awestruck]
#27921836 - 08/27/22 09:20 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I've got some coming along on machine cleaned wheat, that was soaked and boiled in a tea that I prepared from hardwood and fern mulch. Agar went in on 13/8/22. Pretty happy with the progress so far. I'm going to try out different substrates, including the standard cvg for cubes.
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Mycoplex
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: wickedglass]
#27921983 - 08/28/22 12:57 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Hey Land Trout, I am following along here. I have a culture going of the banana-yellow phenotype in the main post. It sounds like the fruiting strategy here is going to be identical to azures, cyans, and other "cold woodlovers" right?
I've been curious if the same teks can be extended to Gymnopilus Purpuratus, which I am only mentioning because of its locality with subs.
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Land Trout
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Mycoplex] 1
#27969191 - 09/26/22 03:27 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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some NZ subs I spawned to supplemented hwfp a long time ago. These took a long time to colonize, compared to whfp and potting soil I spawned on the 22nd below. I don’t like using supplemented stuff for any woodlovers, but felt rushed to use that stuff and didn’t have any gourmets on hand.
Spawned a couple totes of the bell sub this morning.
 Mycoplex, as far as I see Ps. cyans, azzies, allenii, and subaeruginosa are all so close that it’s all the same process. And it’s almost like subs have more variation within one species as the whole rest of the clade. As far as Gyms go I can’t say with experience, but it seems like spawning them to anything more than coir doesn’t help. But that’s for another thread.
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CowsPoopShrooms
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Cob]
#27969437 - 09/26/22 05:33 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Edited by CowsPoopShrooms (10/14/22 06:50 PM)
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fungusul
Fungus Kingdom


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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: CowsPoopShrooms]
#27969557 - 09/26/22 06:23 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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SingularFusion


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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: fungusul]
#27989872 - 10/09/22 10:14 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- 🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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Land Trout
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: SingularFusion] 1
#28023942 - 10/30/22 02:09 AM (1 year, 2 months ago) |
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This patch fruited last year(2021 first pic in the OP) and was topped with some fresh chips after they stopped fruiting in the winter. It did not fruit it’s first fall in the ground 2020. Through the summer the myc almost dissapears from here and has spread far from where it was originally planted, once it cools down and we get out fall rains the myc comes back up to the surface. The fruits really hug the rhododendron, and the brick border.
The patch below was planted last winter/spring 2022 from a multispore from the other bed. It was planted with sawdust blocks and a smart pot in wood chips used as mulch around a persimmon tree I put in the ground last winter. It’s only pinning around the smart pot, which was grain colonized from the germ plate. This bed is a lot more exposed than the bed it’s parent was from.
 I don’t know much about the origin of these genetics other than it was from Australia, and I got spores from a member who lives about an hour north of me, so this is like a second and third generation from the wild.
Edited by Land Trout (10/30/22 08:18 AM)
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Land Trout
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 1
#28088791 - 12/08/22 03:31 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Good season, got some new patches that are putting out a few pins, good to see some fruits in just a season. These pics are of the main colony in my landscape, and an offspring I cultivated from it.

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Land Trout
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Re: subaeruginosa grow along thread(started 2022) [Re: Land Trout] 2
#28115147 - 12/28/22 01:44 PM (1 year, 30 days ago) |
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 Another patch of subaeruginosa has fruited. This one from a different gene pool that was labeled “pine plantation”. Didn’t fruit until well after we had very cold below freezing temps. This was from one single block of colonized chips spawned 1:1 to chips and soil, topped with peat and seeded with grass and wheat around a riser on my irrigation system. I’d mulched it with leaves and it set pins under the leaves.
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