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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27905799 - 08/16/22 04:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Methane is a worse greenhouse gas than co2 and unlike co2 it contributes to smog. cow methane is a big deal. gas hydrate methane is a big deal too.
Cow nitrogen - huge problem.

we really should become more vegetarian as a species. if it wiorks in parts of india it can work for us.




If we want to be healthy as a species, that maybe isn't the best idea, considering our topsoil is mostly depleted so there's not near the amount of nutrition there used to be in the same fruits, vegetables, and grains.  If you don't believe me, just look at some vegans. 
Ruminant farming (cattle, bison, etc), when done right, can have a net negative carbon impact, and animals that are allowed to graze naturally on grasslands improve the land they're on and replenish the topsoil naturally.
There's no reason to demonize meat as an environment destroyer when the alternative is eating fruits and vegetables grown via practices that have all but destroyed our precious soil and polluted the water supply with innumerable chemicals...
In other words, I think it's more important how your food is made than what in particular it is, but if health is your goal, vegetarianism is going to be a lot more difficult path to get there.




We shouldn't be eating meat everyday. I agree with what you said in regards to farming, but it's just not sustainable for 8 billion humans. Sorry, only 1.3 billion humans actually living in the developed world eating meat everyday. The only reason we are able to upkeep that consumption is because of factory farming right.

We also have more than enough ingredients to create soil, it's just not being used because of corporation profits.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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Offlineanatomality
Nothern Counterpart
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/31/20
Posts: 1,355
Loc: North East
Last seen: 4 days, 23 hours
Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl] * 1
    #27905802 - 08/16/22 04:36 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Tbh if we just let people die of covid we'd all be much better off.


--------------------
“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl]
    #27905804 - 08/16/22 04:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It's both. Composting excrement as well.
What do you think is debatable, that cows are carbon neutral, at worst, or that there were more grazing herbivores before humans invented agriculture and animal husbandry?




More grazing herbivores today. 1.5 billion cows. Not including other grazing animals.

Look, agriculture only makes up 14% of the total contribution. The only reason I mentioned it was because donwats had implied global warming is only attributable to carbon dioxide.

There's a lot of issues with animal agriculture not related to climate change which negatively impact the environment.




Yes, we've been doing it wrong, thats for certain.  Factory farms with vast lakes of pig shit/piss are clearly a problem, among many others, I'm not arguing that. 

Here you go:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7148574/

Also, there were more Bison in the U.S. in 1800 than there are cows today and certainly that added up to significantly more biomass of grazing herds.  I'll grant that's just the U.S. I don't have numbers on hand for aurochs or any number of other large extinct herbivores

The bottom line is the world needs more grazers and predatorsto keep them moving.  I could care less if anyone eats them or makes a profit. This thread is about climate change and if we want to mitigate or reverse the effects of anthropogenic climate change, more and bigger herds is the path.


--------------------


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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27905812 - 08/16/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It's both. Composting excrement as well.
What do you think is debatable, that cows are carbon neutral, at worst, or that there were more grazing herbivores before humans invented agriculture and animal husbandry?




More grazing herbivores today. 1.5 billion cows. Not including other grazing animals.

Look, agriculture only makes up 14% of the total contribution. The only reason I mentioned it was because donwats had implied global warming is only attributable to carbon dioxide.

There's a lot of issues with animal agriculture not related to climate change which negatively impact the environment.




Yes, we've been doing it wrong, thats for certain.  Factory farms with vast lakes of pig shit/piss are clearly a problem, among many others, I'm not arguing that. 

Here you go:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7148574/

Also, there were more Bison in the U.S. in 1800 than there are cows today and certainly that added up to significantly more biomass of grazing herds.  I'll grant that's just the U.S. I don't have numbers on hand for aurochs or any number of other large extinct herbivores




Why couldn't you provide the number of bison? Everything I've ever read were in the millions, not billions.

Yeah, I understand large extinct herbivores, but I'm trying to stick within the timeline of this climate change lol.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: anatomality] * 1
    #27905814 - 08/16/22 04:45 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

anatomality said:
Tbh if we just let people die of covid we'd all be much better off.




I agree with that sadly.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl]
    #27905819 - 08/16/22 04:49 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Here is what gOoGLe says:
Quote:

There are around 9 million dairy cows and 32 million beef cattle in the U.S. on any given day (2017 data), for 41 million individuals




Quote:

It has been estimated that even in the year 1800, there were probably more than 60 million bison roaming the prairies of North America, feeding entirely on grasses and gradually migrating from north to south as winter approached.




Edit: Also, what would you replace extinct herbivores with if not livestock?

Edit2: does the world have an alternate timeline I wasn't aware of?  We were discussing the cost/benefit of replenishing the size of grazing herds relative to climate change. The bottom line is that grazing herds are necessary for healthy grasslands and healthy grasslands are a massive carbon sink compared to desertified former grasslands.  Maybe instead of fucking up the earth's ecology even more by reducing livestock we should focus on the actual causes of anthropogenic climate change.


--------------------


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Offlineanatomality
Nothern Counterpart
I'm a teapot


Registered: 05/31/20
Posts: 1,355
Loc: North East
Last seen: 4 days, 23 hours
Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #27905833 - 08/16/22 05:06 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Focusing all of our energy on giving 3 extra months to the least productive segment of the population is just emotional and reactive thinking. The medical industry somehow escapes scrutiny form the environmentalists because it's in the name of human 'lives', but it is one of the most polluting industries there is. No lives are ever saved, the inevitable can be delayed and quality of life can be saved however...

We need to be a forward thinking people.
What will matter tomorrow, vs crisis thinking everyday.


--------------------
“The strength of a person's spirit would then be measured by how much 'truth' he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted, falsified.”

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27905837 - 08/16/22 05:11 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Here is what gOoGLe says:
Quote:

There are around 9 million dairy cows and 32 million beef cattle in the U.S. on any given day (2017 data), for 41 million individuals




Quote:

It has been estimated that even in the year 1800, there were probably more than 60 million bison roaming the prairies of North America, feeding entirely on grasses and gradually migrating from north to south as winter approached.




Edit: Also, what would you replace extinct herbivores with if not livestock?

Edit2: does the world have an alternate timeline I wasn't aware of?  We were discussing the cost/benefit of replenishing the size of grazing herds relative to climate change. The bottom line is that grazing herds are necessary for healthy grasslands and healthy grasslands are a massive carbon sink compared to desertified former grasslands.  Maybe instead of fucking up the earth's ecology even more by reducing livestock we should focus on the actual causes of anthropogenic climate change.




Ok, I can understand based on the numbers of bison in the US alone in 1800, your insinuating all species of grazing herbivores would probably exceed 1.5 billion of cows globally. Sure, but there are other species of grazing herbivores in the billions today as well.. which is why I said it was debatable. For example, 1 billion sheep globally.

I wouldn't need to replace extinct herbivores because I wouldn't have caused them to be extinct in the first place. That's why were fucked lol. There is no fixing this. Livestock will not fix it. I mean if anything we should find a way to integrate livestock into nature without humans at best. That pretty much answers the rest of what you wrote.

Regarding the timeline. No, no alternate. It's just you mentioned large grazing herbivores so I assume you meant species that have been extinct a long time. 


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
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Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl]
    #27905847 - 08/16/22 05:27 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Livestock reduction is a non-issue with regard to climate change is what I'm saying.  Well, maybe not a non-issue. Its an issue that there aren't enough and the ones there are continue to be mismanaged but livestock itself are not drivers of anthropogenic climate change.  There is a huge fundamental difference between cycling carbon and fossil carbon and its fossil carbon that our actions keep releasing to the atmosphere.  Livestock carbon emissions are inherently less than consumption because a lot of that consumed carbon gets converted into biomass.  That biomass carbon gradually cycles through the environment to become other biomass. Some of that gets sequestered as fossil carbon in peat bogs, at the bottom of the ocean, etc.  Some is emitted to the atmosphere where it came from.  Livestock are a carbon sink and promote the ability of grasslands to hold more carbon as well. Full stop.


--------------------


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl]
    #27905849 - 08/16/22 05:27 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Methane is a worse greenhouse gas than co2 and unlike co2 it contributes to smog. cow methane is a big deal. gas hydrate methane is a big deal too.
Cow nitrogen - huge problem.

we really should become more vegetarian as a species. if it wiorks in parts of india it can work for us.




If we want to be healthy as a species, that maybe isn't the best idea, considering our topsoil is mostly depleted so there's not near the amount of nutrition there used to be in the same fruits, vegetables, and grains.  If you don't believe me, just look at some vegans. 
Ruminant farming (cattle, bison, etc), when done right, can have a net negative carbon impact, and animals that are allowed to graze naturally on grasslands improve the land they're on and replenish the topsoil naturally.
There's no reason to demonize meat as an environment destroyer when the alternative is eating fruits and vegetables grown via practices that have all but destroyed our precious soil and polluted the water supply with innumerable chemicals...
In other words, I think it's more important how your food is made than what in particular it is, but if health is your goal, vegetarianism is going to be a lot more difficult path to get there.




We shouldn't be eating meat everyday. I agree with what you said in regards to farming, but it's just not sustainable for 8 billion humans. Sorry, only 1.3 billion humans actually living in the developed world eating meat everyday. The only reason we are able to upkeep that consumption is because of factory farming right.

We also have more than enough ingredients to create soil, it's just not being used because of corporation profits.




See that's our problem right there - we think we can man-make soil, and do it better than nature did in the first place.  We can't do that.  Topsoil isn't just a list of minerals, it's thousands of interdependent species of microorganisms in a delicate balance built up over decades if not hundreds of years. 
Every time man thinks he can outsmart nature he fucks it up major and our health goes to shit because of it.  Like feeding people machine oil (seed oils) as food, labelling it "vegetable oil" and calling it "healthy".  We can see how healthy Americans have become since those were introduced into nearly everything we eat :rolleyes:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Climate Change [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27905853 - 08/16/22 05:32 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Y'all like soil?  Check out P.A. Yeoman.


--------------------


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Invisibledonwats
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Registered: 04/28/19
Posts: 474
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Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27905920 - 08/16/22 06:48 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Grass doesn't just automatically die and decompose because something's not eating it.. it continues growing...

If I took your philosophy regarding water and soil pollution, I could easily tell you, all the detergents, run off etc. is natural and came from the planet anyways so s'all good. Water and soil changes naturally so s'all good.. like this is how ridiculous you sound to me.




Our water is fucked with all the lead, arsenic and mercury we put in it, and now the plastics. These things just don't "change naturally".

How does soap and detergent affect the environment?

Detergents don't completely biodegrade and they contaminate our water supplies, rivers and oceans with toxic heavy metals like cadmium and arsenic.

These substances act as algae fertilizers, causing them to reproduce very quickly. The large amount of algae depletes the oxygen in the water, which is no longer available for aquatic fauna (microbes and fish), and generates bad odors. In addition to causing very serious imbalances in lakes and rivers.

How ridiculous I sound to you? LoL

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Invisiblemycosis
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Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,884
Loc: USSA Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: donwats]
    #27905946 - 08/16/22 07:09 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Phosphates are horrible for the environment. It's why detergent doesn't clean like it does when we were kids because they're so limited now.

There's a place I go on the internet that teaches people how to jack up the phosphates in their laundry detergent. :lol:

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27905979 - 08/16/22 07:38 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Livestock reduction is a non-issue with regard to climate change is what I'm saying.  Well, maybe not a non-issue. Its an issue that there aren't enough and the ones there are continue to be mismanaged but livestock itself are not drivers of anthropogenic climate change.  There is a huge fundamental difference between cycling carbon and fossil carbon and its fossil carbon that our actions keep releasing to the atmosphere.  Livestock carbon emissions are inherently less than consumption because a lot of that consumed carbon gets converted into biomass.  That biomass carbon gradually cycles through the environment to become other biomass. Some of that gets sequestered as fossil carbon in peat bogs, at the bottom of the ocean, etc.  Some is emitted to the atmosphere where it came from.  Livestock are a carbon sink and promote the ability of grasslands to hold more carbon as well. Full stop.




Nowhere did I say livestock are causing climate change. In fact I mentioned it's 14% of total greenhouse gases. You admit the mismanagement of livestock is the issue. When we think about all the mismanagements of basically everything we do, livestock technically is an issue unless we properly manage them, which we aren't going to do unfortunately. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing because I said the comment you made earlier was debateable..

Edit: that last part read really hostile lol. I don't mean it to be. Just my observation.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

Edited by r3volution.gurl (08/16/22 08:56 PM)

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: donwats]
    #27906027 - 08/16/22 08:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

donwats said:
Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Grass doesn't just automatically die and decompose because something's not eating it.. it continues growing...

If I took your philosophy regarding water and soil pollution, I could easily tell you, all the detergents, run off etc. is natural and came from the planet anyways so s'all good. Water and soil changes naturally so s'all good.. like this is how ridiculous you sound to me.




Our water is fucked with all the lead, arsenic and mercury we put in it, and now the plastics. These things just don't "change naturally".

How does soap and detergent affect the environment?

Detergents don't completely biodegrade and they contaminate our water supplies, rivers and oceans with toxic heavy metals like cadmium and arsenic.

These substances act as algae fertilizers, causing them to reproduce very quickly. The large amount of algae depletes the oxygen in the water, which is no longer available for aquatic fauna (microbes and fish), and generates bad odors. In addition to causing very serious imbalances in lakes and rivers.

How ridiculous I sound to you? LoL




Did you know, the Earth has natural cycles to filter it's own fresh water? It'll take 100-1000 years, but it's natural. Yeah, people are getting sick, but the water overall is fine because it's been clean in Antarctica. It's all a bullshit scam to trick you so the Government can take trillions of dollars from us to clean the water.

Again, I'm just parroting how you talked about the climate. I don't actually think this at all infact I completely agree with the fact we've poisoned our drinking water and really, everything actually. All the rain in the world is polluted and we are breathing in pesticides and microplastics. I'm too lazy to bring up the sources, but if anyone is genuinely interested in seeing that data, I'll post it.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
Female User Gallery


Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #27906067 - 08/16/22 08:26 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Methane is a worse greenhouse gas than co2 and unlike co2 it contributes to smog. cow methane is a big deal. gas hydrate methane is a big deal too.
Cow nitrogen - huge problem.

we really should become more vegetarian as a species. if it wiorks in parts of india it can work for us.




If we want to be healthy as a species, that maybe isn't the best idea, considering our topsoil is mostly depleted so there's not near the amount of nutrition there used to be in the same fruits, vegetables, and grains.  If you don't believe me, just look at some vegans. 
Ruminant farming (cattle, bison, etc), when done right, can have a net negative carbon impact, and animals that are allowed to graze naturally on grasslands improve the land they're on and replenish the topsoil naturally.
There's no reason to demonize meat as an environment destroyer when the alternative is eating fruits and vegetables grown via practices that have all but destroyed our precious soil and polluted the water supply with innumerable chemicals...
In other words, I think it's more important how your food is made than what in particular it is, but if health is your goal, vegetarianism is going to be a lot more difficult path to get there.




We shouldn't be eating meat everyday. I agree with what you said in regards to farming, but it's just not sustainable for 8 billion humans. Sorry, only 1.3 billion humans actually living in the developed world eating meat everyday. The only reason we are able to upkeep that consumption is because of factory farming right.

We also have more than enough ingredients to create soil, it's just not being used because of corporation profits.




See that's our problem right there - we think we can man-make soil, and do it better than nature did in the first place.  We can't do that.  Topsoil isn't just a list of minerals, it's thousands of interdependent species of microorganisms in a delicate balance built up over decades if not hundreds of years. 
Every time man thinks he can outsmart nature he fucks it up major and our health goes to shit because of it.  Like feeding people machine oil (seed oils) as food, labelling it "vegetable oil" and calling it "healthy".  We can see how healthy Americans have become since those were introduced into nearly everything we eat :rolleyes:




Now you're putting words in my mouth. Let's be super clear here. I hate vegetable oil, it's an abomination and we are actively destroying the natural ecosystems which create soil. Actually, corporations are and we don't have the capability to stop them.

Do we

A) do nothing at all

Or

B) try and provide an ideal environment for these microorganisms to thrive after previous negative human activities. 

Did you think I meant to industrialize making soil or something? We need nature. We should be utilizing already existing natural systems. This doesn't mean it doesn't need our help to bring those ingredients together after for example a clear cutting that separated a whole bunch of shit from each other. I've seen the damage clear cutting forests does. It's a mess. Natural composting areas don't continue on after that without a little help.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
Re: Climate Change [Re: r3volution.gurl]
    #27906155 - 08/16/22 10:02 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Livestock reduction is a non-issue with regard to climate change is what I'm saying.  Well, maybe not a non-issue. Its an issue that there aren't enough and the ones there are continue to be mismanaged but livestock itself are not drivers of anthropogenic climate change.  There is a huge fundamental difference between cycling carbon and fossil carbon and its fossil carbon that our actions keep releasing to the atmosphere.  Livestock carbon emissions are inherently less than consumption because a lot of that consumed carbon gets converted into biomass.  That biomass carbon gradually cycles through the environment to become other biomass. Some of that gets sequestered as fossil carbon in peat bogs, at the bottom of the ocean, etc.  Some is emitted to the atmosphere where it came from.  Livestock are a carbon sink and promote the ability of grasslands to hold more carbon as well. Full stop.




Nowhere did I say livestock are causing climate change. In fact I mentioned it's 14% of total greenhouse gases. You admit the mismanagement of livestock is the issue. When we think about all the mismanagements of basically everything we do, livestock technically is an issue unless we properly manage them, which we aren't going to do unfortunately. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing because I said the comment you made earlier was debateable..

Edit: that last part read really hostile lol. I don't mean it to be. Just my observation.




No, I'm arguing so that nobody reading this will be left with any question as to whether or not livestock emissions are a major driver of anthropogenic climate change.  They aren't. That talking point is a bill of goods being sold to the public so they won't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.

If you think that human activity has increased the total biomass of grazing herbivores beyond pre-agriculture levels, by all means we can debate that point but I think you were probably just saying that because you harbor some resentment toward me for explaining to you why your plans for an industrial ethanol plant in your yard with donated apples as the primary feedstock is not viable.


--------------------


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Invisibledonwats
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Posts: 474
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Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27906191 - 08/16/22 10:43 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The global cabalist are saying the act of tilling soil in order to grow ethanol producing plants releases to much carbon..

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Invisibler3volution.gurl
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Registered: 10/20/21
Posts: 6,359
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27906208 - 08/16/22 11:21 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
No, I'm arguing so that nobody reading this will be left with any question as to whether or not livestock emissions are a major driver of anthropogenic climate change.  They aren't. That talking point is a bill of goods being sold to the public so they won't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.




I also mentioned methane from permafrost melt. They were just examples of methane sources in response to donwats. I never meant to imply it was a major contributor in causing climate change, but it's worth putting a spotlight on because it's very much apart of the man behind the curtain and a contributor to warming today. Majority of animal agriculture is industrialized by corporations. Industrialization caused climate change.

Quote:

If you think that human activity has increased the total biomass of grazing herbivores beyond pre-agriculture levels, by all means we can debate that point but I think you were probably just saying that because you harbor some resentment toward me for explaining to you why your plans for an industrial ethanol plant in your yard with donated apples as the primary feedstock is not viable.




No, I have no resentment towards you. I genuinely think it has and I haven't found any real numbers to prove otherwise. Either way, that much livestock in comparison to wild grazers is an issue to me and that's really why I think it's important to shed a negative light on the current livestock populations.


--------------------

"Souls love. Thats what souls do. Egos dont, but souls do. Become a soul, look around, and youll be amazed-all the beings around you are souls." -Ram Dass

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Offlinehigh_desert
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Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #27906231 - 08/17/22 12:01 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

r3volution.gurl said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Livestock reduction is a non-issue with regard to climate change is what I'm saying.  Well, maybe not a non-issue. Its an issue that there aren't enough and the ones there are continue to be mismanaged but livestock itself are not drivers of anthropogenic climate change.  There is a huge fundamental difference between cycling carbon and fossil carbon and its fossil carbon that our actions keep releasing to the atmosphere.  Livestock carbon emissions are inherently less than consumption because a lot of that consumed carbon gets converted into biomass.  That biomass carbon gradually cycles through the environment to become other biomass. Some of that gets sequestered as fossil carbon in peat bogs, at the bottom of the ocean, etc.  Some is emitted to the atmosphere where it came from.  Livestock are a carbon sink and promote the ability of grasslands to hold more carbon as well. Full stop.




No, I'm arguing so that nobody reading this will be left with any question as to whether or not livestock emissions are a major driver of anthropogenic climate change.  They aren't. That talking point is a bill of goods being sold to the public so they won't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.

If you think that human activity has increased the total biomass of grazing herbivores beyond pre-agriculture levels, by all means we can debate that point but I think you were probably just saying that because you harbor some resentment toward me for explaining to you why your plans for an industrial ethanol plant in your yard with donated apples as the primary feedstock is not viable.





The problem with your reasoning is that cows do not provide the same benefits to the grassland ecosystem that bison did. The vast majority of cattle used to feed meat eating humans are in high density feed lots aka CAFO. The numbers I last saw were 70% cattle, and almost 100% of pigs and poultry. Therefore you're getting all the methane and almost none of the benefits to the grasslands. Also, CAFO cattle are fed by crops raised by humans and all the land, herbicides and issues that go along with that. Additionally, CAFOs have problems with the way the waste decays and issues like groundwater contamination.

Buffalo patties in a field contributing to the health of the ecosystem are not the same as fermenting CAFO waste storage sites.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/docs/understanding_cafos_nalboh.pdf

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