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christopera
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Clean coal isn't actually a thing. It was just greenwashing, totally made up. They can put emissions restrictions on coal fired plants until they barely work and mining coal is still a complete disaster for the environment. Renewable Hydrogen is much better for sure, of course it basically doesn't exist either. With Hydrogen it could exist though, so it has that going for it, which is nice.
I was at the race track (for racing cars not animals) the other day and ran into a guy that works for Ford. We discussed electric vs hydrogen. He said everybody would like to see hydrogen cars but that since there is no reliable way to transport it on a large scale and additionally it is basically just a fossil fuel anyways, pure electric is the clear winner for the time being. He said internal discussions at Ford are that there is maybe a 50 year outlook on large scale hydrogen but that they aren't really even invested because with the progress straight electric is making they don't need hydrogen and internal combustion. He elaborated, if they were to develop a hydrogen based system it would be a range extension for an electric car through a fuel cell that would be a higher density battery that was easier to charge due to the energy density of hydrogen versus that of current battery tech. However, he said that tech is not there yet and that as modern strictly electric based battery technology continues to develop there is some chance that in a decade or two hydrogen just won't be needed.
What Ford employee was I talking to? Jim Farley, CEO of Ford. I've run into him many times over the last 20 years. He likes to campaign a few different cars. His sports racers are the coolest though. He has some real gems.
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Enlil
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That is, but it doesn't make your general claim any more accurate.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: Whenever a source of energy has to have "clean" placed in front of it, you know that shit is horrible for the environment. I'm amazed that hydrogen is getting the clean coal treatment. This stuff is probably worse than we think.
Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Stable Genius said: When someone places "probably" in front of a statement you know they're guessing.
That's bullshit.
In regards to the post I was replying to nah.
The idea that hydrogen produced renewably is probably worse than clean coal is guesswork.
Again, when hydrogen is produced renewably, then maybe this is a discussion worth having. Right now, as your own links demonstrate, there's a lot of promises of renewable hydrogen, and the only real accomplishment that I can see is that they managed to blend 10% hydrogen (from LNG) into their LNG mix, and called it a "clean energy revolution".
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Brian Jones
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos] 1
#28002899 - 10/17/22 09:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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There seems to be hydrogen cars coming on the market in Asia.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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336
menehune


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Solar power generation is the answer. It's an unlimited (or nearly unlimited resource, so long as Bill Gates and his friends don't succeed in their plans to block out the sun). Also, we should look back into Nikola Tesla's claims of being able to pull electricity directly from the air (if I'm not mistaken that was a claim he made). Another thing I think we should look into is magnetic power. I actually have blueprint of sort that utilizes gravity and magnetism in order to create a perpetual motion machine that should be able to generate and infinite amount of power.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Stable Genius
Radicalised


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Re: Climate Change [Re: 336]
#28003317 - 10/17/22 03:28 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Kryptos
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...at the expense of significantly increased NOx emissions.
Replace 90% of your diesel with H2, which somehow only reduces CO2 pollution by 85%, even though you'd think replacing 90% of the fuel with a carbon free alternative would reduce carbon by at least 90%, and watch the significantly more toxic and polluting NOx values skyrocket.
Progress!
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336
menehune


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That's the danger of this crusade against CO2 and Carbon. If people got their way within a few generations, there would probably be a runaway effect where CO2 levels continue to drop and become too low support plant life and all the plants start dying off. People forget that CO2 is a trace gas that amounts to less than 1% of the atmosphere.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Climate Change [Re: 336]
#28003619 - 10/17/22 06:48 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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That's just plain stupid.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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336
menehune


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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
#28003792 - 10/17/22 07:56 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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Stable Genius
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#28004196 - 10/18/22 05:35 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: ...at the expense of significantly increased NOx emissions.
Replace 90% of your diesel with H2, which somehow only reduces CO2 pollution by 85%, even though you'd think replacing 90% of the fuel with a carbon free alternative would reduce carbon by at least 90%, and watch the significantly more toxic and polluting NOx values skyrocket.
Progress!
I don't know how you could read the same article and come away with that?
Quote:
Instead of putting hydrogen into the engine and letting it mix well, the researchers found that its stratified addition significantly reduces NOx emissions.
This means that the hydrogen presence is more in certain parts of the engine while being lesser in other parts.
Overall, the nitrogen oxide emissions, causative of acid rain and air pollution, were reduced in the dual-fuel engine.
Quote:
Up to 90% hydrogen energy fraction was achieved in a hydrogen diesel dual-fuel direct injection (H2DDI) light-duty single-cylinder compression ignition engine. An automotive-size inline single-cylinder diesel engine was modified to install an additional hydrogen direct injector. The engine was operated at a constant speed of 2000 revolutions per minute and fixed combustion phasing of −10 crank angle degrees before top dead centre (°CA bTDC) while evaluating the power output, efficiency, combustion and engine-out emissions. A parametric study was conducted at an intermediate load with 20–90% hydrogen energy fraction and 180-0 °CA bTDC injection timing. High indicated mean effective pressure (IMEP) of up to 943 kPa and 57.2% indicated efficiency was achieved at 90% hydrogen energy fraction, at the expense of NOx emissions. The hydrogen injection timing directly controls the mixture condition and combustion mode. Early hydrogen injection timings exhibited premixed combustion behaviour while late injection timings produced mixing-controlled combustion, with an intermediate point reached at 40 °CA bTDC hydrogen injection timing. At 90% hydrogen energy fraction, the earlier injection timing leads to higher IMEP/efficiency but the NOx increase is inevitable due to enhanced premixed combustion. To keep the NOx increase minimal and achieve the same combustion phasing of a diesel baseline, the 40 °CA bTDC hydrogen injection timing shows the best performance at which 85.9% CO2 reduction and 13.3% IMEP/efficiency increase are achieved.
The 90% part was slightly confusing but still, if you can't work out what they're saying, it's not my fault 
To me that's saying if they fiddle around with the injection timing AS WELL AS REDUCE THE % of Hydrogen then the NOx emissions drop at the expense of the additional power gain(which is still increased overall).
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christopera
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Constant speed operation is totally meaningless for road driving. It’s pretty easy to optimize an engine that doesn’t need to work across a wide rpm. Snowmobile two strokes and boat motors being the obvious examples, though variable prop aviation motors would apply as well. Automobile engines work on different character properties.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
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If you say so.
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christopera
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I know so. A huge part of my machine shop business is engine building and specialty machining of high performance engines. Sending parts to Aus is actually like 30% of my business. You guys like your two strokes. And I respect that.
The point is that your article is meaningless for wider use of hydrogen in passenger cars.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
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So there'd be now way electronic fuel injection could be configured to perform?
I don't doubt you know what you're talking about but completely dismissing an engineering project from a university without having a good look at what they've been up to is a big call don't you think?
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christopera
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The issue is flame propagation. I don’t doubt their results, I doubt that it means much of anything for wide scale automobile use.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
Radicalised


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Like I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight. My point is these things are being worked on and the results are encouraging.
Same with Gladstone putting 10% Hydrogen in with the cities existing natural gas network. Is 10% a game changer? Not really, but a 10% decrease in CO2 without any change to the existing network is a good outcome, especially when the Hydrogen is coming from an electroliser running on solar and wind power.
These small gains all add up + our technology increases
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christopera
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Electric cars became a thing in the 1870’s and research started 50 years before. Lots of things have been worked on for decades.
These things progress in incremental ways but currently hydrogen isn’t it.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Kryptos
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Quote:
336 said: That's the danger of this crusade against CO2 and Carbon. If people got their way within a few generations, there would probably be a runaway effect where CO2 levels continue to drop and become too low support plant life and all the plants start dying off. People forget that CO2 is a trace gas that amounts to less than 1% of the atmosphere.
...and this is why the earth was unable to support life until the invention of the coal-fired steam engine in the 17th century.
Science!
Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: ...at the expense of significantly increased NOx emissions.
Replace 90% of your diesel with H2, which somehow only reduces CO2 pollution by 85%, even though you'd think replacing 90% of the fuel with a carbon free alternative would reduce carbon by at least 90%, and watch the significantly more toxic and polluting NOx values skyrocket.
Progress!
I don't know how you could read the same article and come away with that?
Quote:
Instead of putting hydrogen into the engine and letting it mix well, the researchers found that its stratified addition significantly reduces NOx emissions.
This means that the hydrogen presence is more in certain parts of the engine while being lesser in other parts.
Overall, the nitrogen oxide emissions, causative of acid rain and air pollution, were reduced in the dual-fuel engine.
Quote:
Up to 90% hydrogen energy fraction was achieved in a hydrogen diesel dual-fuel direct injection (H2DDI) light-duty single-cylinder compression ignition engine. An automotive-size inline single-cylinder diesel engine was modified to install an additional hydrogen direct injector. The engine was operated at a constant speed of 2000 revolutions per minute and fixed combustion phasing of −10 crank angle degrees before top dead centre (°CA bTDC) while evaluating the power output, efficiency, combustion and engine-out emissions. A parametric study was conducted at an intermediate load with 20–90% hydrogen energy fraction and 180-0 °CA bTDC injection timing. High indicated mean effective pressure (IMEP) of up to 943 kPa and 57.2% indicated efficiency was achieved at 90% hydrogen energy fraction, at the expense of NOx emissions. The hydrogen injection timing directly controls the mixture condition and combustion mode. Early hydrogen injection timings exhibited premixed combustion behaviour while late injection timings produced mixing-controlled combustion, with an intermediate point reached at 40 °CA bTDC hydrogen injection timing. At 90% hydrogen energy fraction, the earlier injection timing leads to higher IMEP/efficiency but the NOx increase is inevitable due to enhanced premixed combustion. To keep the NOx increase minimal and achieve the same combustion phasing of a diesel baseline, the 40 °CA bTDC hydrogen injection timing shows the best performance at which 85.9% CO2 reduction and 13.3% IMEP/efficiency increase are achieved.
The 90% part was slightly confusing but still, if you can't work out what they're saying, it's not my fault 
To me that's saying if they fiddle around with the injection timing AS WELL AS REDUCE THE % of Hydrogen then the NOx emissions drop at the expense of the additional power gain(which is still increased overall).
Their "reduced NOx" is actually a "minimal increase", if you read it carefully. That's the last paragraph. They replaced 90% of the fuel with H2, reduced CO2 output by 85%, and increased power by 13% at the cost of the minimal NOx increase.
I'm guessing they could reduce CO2 further if they cut the oxygen feed a bit, of course, then the engine exhaust would also be sharting out little nanobriquettes of unburned carbon.
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4-HO-Gumbo
Aspiring Dry Drunk


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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#28019631 - 10/27/22 03:24 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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how do we feel about nuclear power here? I think that anyone talking about climate concerns or renewable energy that isn’t pro-nuclear is either controlled opposition or just ignorant
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The Cosmic “FUCK YEAH” with which we are all connected
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