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Kryptos
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Hydrogen seems like a desperate gasp of the fossil fuel industry. The majority of hydrogen would, in the near future, be made from fossil fuels.
Another reason that they push hydrogen is because of stranded assets--once oil goes the way of the dodo, all those pipes become worthless scrap unless you're pumping a new fuel through it, like hydrogen. Tax breaks.
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christopera
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27958850 - 09/20/22 11:08 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I think it has merit if you are willing to operate it locally. It's probably a great product if you can make it and can afford the use of water, and have the renewable to crack H2O. However shipping it around like traditional liquid fuels just doesn't work. Anywhere even remotely dry simply won't ever be a hydrogen based fuel area. Solar and electricity easily outpace hydrogen in those environments.
That is the problem with our current fuel markets. We expect it to work everywhere. The only thing that compares is electric. Which is where we are headed. In three years the amount of electric powered transport is going to be astonishing and in ten it will be the vast majority of what is being sold. It's a good time to get into the lineman trade I would say. Of course much of our electricity is based on natural gas... Luckily the efficiency is pretty high there. Somewhere around 45%, which is about twice that of a standard internal combustion engine.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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koods
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Hydrogen is not going to happen
The number of electric vehicles in my area has exploded in the past year. I’d say 5-10% of the cars in parking lots are now electric, most of them are Teslas
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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budmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
#27958930 - 09/20/22 12:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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An area where houses that are about to fall down are selling for 1 million dollars has a lot of teslas? I'm shocked
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
Edited by budmanman (09/20/22 12:37 PM)
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Stable Genius
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
#27958944 - 09/20/22 12:50 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Hydrogen is not going to happen
The number of electric vehicles in my area has exploded in the past year. I’d say 5-10% of the cars in parking lots are now electric, most of them are Teslas
Hydrogen is happening and car emissions aren't the only problem that needs to be solved. I thought you'd be wetting your pants to hear that Germany has found a way around Russian gas.
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donwats
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Hydrogen has failed. Maybe some future Einstein fines a faster cheap way, but it takes more energy in the form of electricity then you get back.
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koods
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Where does the hydrogen come from? You either extract it from petroleum or use massive amounts of electricity to get it from water.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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koods
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Quote:
budmanman said: An area where houses that are about to fall down are selling for 1 million dollars has a lot of teslas? I'm shocked
Where houses are about to fall down? Wut
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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budmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
#27959045 - 09/20/22 02:21 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Massive amounts? it is 75% efficient and a great use of surplus un storable energy.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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koods
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Hydrogen is fine if you want to use it to store excess electrical generation at a power plant. It won’t work for vehicles on a large scale. The pressures required are just too high.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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christopera
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
#27959060 - 09/20/22 02:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Hydrogen is one of those fossil fuel greenwash items that people think are doing the world good meanwhile it's pushed by fossil fuel companies and ignores the real ramifications of the core of its production. The gullible eat it up.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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koods
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If you think about these things by thinking about the constituent energy content of chemical bonds it gets a lot easier to see why hydrogen is not an energy source. At best it is an energy store. Either you get it by extracting it from the energetic bonds of petroleum or inputing energy into the bonds of water.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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336
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I personally think we need to start harnessing human BTUs. Kill many birds with one stone that way.
-------------------- "Love is seeing the unity under the imaginary diversity."
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christopera
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
#27959100 - 09/20/22 03:03 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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And there is also just the capital perspective. If you produce fossil fuels you also produce hydrogen. Of course they want to sell it. Low carbon hydrogen basically doesn't exist. It is all made up by people trying to sell a byproduct of their already existing infrastructure.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
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What’s so difficult to understand about using renewable energy to run an electrolysis plant? I’m not disputing what you’re saying about the properties of diesel fuel or ammonia but the engineering has advanced enough to do it. Ships run on heavy fuel oil too which isn’t diesel. One of those articles I linked showed Airbus are looking at it to run their aircraft and I’m pretty sure it can be used to power electric vehicles, I’ll find the info later this evening.
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christopera
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It’s that less than 1% of that hydrogen comes from renewables that you can’t understand.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
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I understand now why chopstick finds it pointless arguing with you. I posted a few good links before demonstrating the technology being rolled out for transporting and producing hydrogen from renewable energy and I found a few more good ones on the hydrogen fuel cells for electric vehicles, buses and back up power in use today, but I couldn't be bothered.
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Kryptos
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Quote:
budmanman said: An area where houses that are about to fall down are selling for 1 million dollars has a lot of teslas? I'm shocked
...uhh, Florida has a bunch of teslas? Wut?
---
As for Quote:
christopera said: I think it has merit if you are willing to operate it locally. It's probably a great product if you can make it and can afford the use of water, and have the renewable to crack H2O. However shipping it around like traditional liquid fuels just doesn't work. Anywhere even remotely dry simply won't ever be a hydrogen based fuel area. Solar and electricity easily outpace hydrogen in those environments.
That is the problem with our current fuel markets. We expect it to work everywhere. The only thing that compares is electric. Which is where we are headed. In three years the amount of electric powered transport is going to be astonishing and in ten it will be the vast majority of what is being sold. It's a good time to get into the lineman trade I would say. Of course much of our electricity is based on natural gas... Luckily the efficiency is pretty high there. Somewhere around 45%, which is about twice that of a standard internal combustion engine.
Problem is, you lose the economy of scale when you produce locally.
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christopera
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: I understand now why chopstick finds it pointless arguing with you. I posted a few good links before demonstrating the technology being rolled out for transporting and producing hydrogen from renewable energy and I found a few more good ones on the hydrogen fuel cells for electric vehicles, buses and back up power in use today, but I couldn't be bothered.
We've all been waiting for 100 years for hydrogen to be renewable. You provide a few links and think the world has been changed. Yet nothing is changing. The physics of it don't work. Otherwise it would have happened at least 40 years ago.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Stable Genius
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: I may have posted an earlier article about this stuff ITT. https://newatlas.com/energy/eat-si-hydrogen-powder/
Following a link in the article you posted ballsalsa.
Kawasaki Heavy says liquefied hydrogen carrier departs Japan for Australia
Quote:
TOKYO, Dec 24 (Reuters) - The world's first liquefied hydrogen carrier left Japan on Friday to pick up its first cargo in Australia, with a return to Japan expected around late February, Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd (7012.T) said.
The A$500 million ($362 million) pilot project, led by Japan's Kawasaki and backed by the Japanese and Australian governments, was originally scheduled to ship its first cargo of hydrogen extracted from brown coal in Australia in the spring.
Kawasaki Heavy aims to replicate its success as a major liquefied natural gas (LNG) tanker producer with hydrogen, a key element that may help decarbonise industries and aid the global energy transition.
In March this year, the Japanese-Australian venture started producing hydrogen from brown coal in the test project that aims to show liquefied hydrogen can be produced and exported safely to Japan.
Partners on the Australian side of the project include Japan's Electric Power Development Co (J-Power) (9513.T), Iwatani Corp , Marubeni Corp (8002.T), Sumitomo Corp (8053.T) and Australia's AGL Energy Ltd, whose mine is supplying the brown coal.
So this shipment is from Hydrogen produced from brown coal, obviously not a renewable source, but what it demonstrates is the capacity for further shipments, and if we go to the link I put up regarding one of the electroliser plants(not Fortescue's) slated for Gladstone (using renewable energy from the massive solar farms that have been and continue to be built here in Queensland) you'll find the backers of the project are
Quote:
The project, a joint venture of government-owned generator Stanwell and Japan-based Iwatani Corporation
Is it going to save Germany this winter? Of course not. Not that I give a shit, the German government shot themselves in the foot over Russian gas. The point is they are able to modify their existing LNG pipelines to accept hydrogen, which according to the number cruncher's is feasible, again in one of the earlier links I posted, with distance being a key as to which type of transportation method is chosen, which includes the cost of the plants needed to store then crack the hydrogen from ammonia.
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