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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: budmanman]
    #27953532 - 09/16/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Not more than can be provided by a thermocouple


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
    #27953535 - 09/16/22 07:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

It has to run its blower. The air doesn't move through the ducts without it, now I suppose you could have it heat some steam and steam power the blower if you wanted but you would have to keep adding water regularly and if it runs dry well you're gonna burn your house down.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
    #27953547 - 09/16/22 07:59 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Do you know what the word "easy" means?  It isn't synonymous with efficient.  Even if it was, a tanker truck burns fuel and has a human driver.  In no way is that easier.  1000 miles of transmission lines is a fraction of the work to build and maintain than 1000 miles of highway.  Not to mention building the trucks.  Your whole efficiency argument is absurd when you consider the infrastructure and equipment necessary.

Also, I don't know what you're talking about when you say AC is only good for transmission.  That is simply untrue.  AC motors are ubiquitous, bro, and far superior to DC in almost every way.





Then why are there so many tanks of propane out in the boonies, instead of using electric everything?



The better question is why doesn't everyone have those tanks if it's so much easier.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
    #27953549 - 09/16/22 07:59 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Do you know what the word "easy" means?  It isn't synonymous with efficient.  Even if it was, a tanker truck burns fuel and has a human driver.  In no way is that easier.  1000 miles of transmission lines is a fraction of the work to build and maintain than 1000 miles of highway.  Not to mention building the trucks.  Your whole efficiency argument is absurd when you consider the infrastructure and equipment necessary.

Also, I don't know what you're talking about when you say AC is only good for transmission.  That is simply untrue.  AC motors are ubiquitous, bro, and far superior to DC in almost every way.





Then why are there so many tanks of propane out in the boonies, instead of using electric everything?



Because electricity is more expensive than gas


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Climate Change [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27953570 - 09/16/22 08:10 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Not more than can be provided by a thermocouple




That works for a gas water heater with a pilot light.

A furnace has fans, and uses electric glow plugs to ensure the gas is combusted.

Still the amount of electricity to run a fan and a glow plug is pretty inconsequential.


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NotSheekle said
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
    #27953574 - 09/16/22 08:12 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I've had radiant wall furnaces with no power to them.


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
    #27953589 - 09/16/22 08:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

You mean a steam radiator system with a boiler room in the basement? They would still need electricity I’d think. A pump to move the water into the boiler at least


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods] * 2
    #27953593 - 09/16/22 08:24 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Enlils first car ran om steam


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
    #27953597 - 09/16/22 08:25 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

No... like this

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Williams-Monterey-Top-Vent-Wall-Heater-35-000-BTUH-66-AFUE-Natural-Gas-3509622A/311800993

I've also had floor furnaces that used no power other than the thermocouple and a steam radiator system with a basement boiler that used no pump.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
    #27953650 - 09/16/22 08:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

This is where I get lost....  soup to nuts, what is better for the enviroment gas(s) or electricity (coal,wind, hydro, etc)?


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Fear is the mind-killer.
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27953677 - 09/16/22 09:00 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Depends on context but not coal.
Renewable electricity is ideal where it's possible and new storage systems are coming along that should make renewable electricity the cheapest option as well.  Modular consumer storage tech would make grid upgrades less important.


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Re: Climate Change [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27953686 - 09/16/22 09:04 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Gas is efficient for heating. It’s not perfect because there are losses at the heat exchanger and some of your heat goes out the chimney with the exhaust gases. Electric heat is essentially 100% efficient. Aside from very tiny mechanical vibrations and a small amount of visible light, almost all the electrical energy consumed is output as heat.

If you have low pressure gas lines from the gas company there’s essentially no loss in transmission. Electrical transmission is lossy, but I think most of the potential energy in fossil fuels is converted to electrical energy in modern turbines.

Either way, producing heat energy is the least lossy conversion from burning gas or consuming electricity. Heat loss is normally where you lose efficiency in heat engines or electrical systems. If heat is your intended purpose then loses would come from far less significant factors like vibration, sound or visible light.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods]
    #27953766 - 09/16/22 10:02 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Heat pumps are stupid efficient. Down side the refrigerant can leak.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Climate Change [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27953969 - 09/17/22 03:53 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I haven't done the math, but what percentage of electricity comes from coal? I have heard the debate before, but is burning coal better than gas for the environment?

Also, is there a plan for our electrical grid to be widened? If everyone had an electric heater and car, as it stands the grid couldn't handle it.




It was 22% last year, down from 39% in 2014. That's good news. There's no way to calculate how much lung cancer, etc., it causes but it's significant.

Yeah, the power grid; hopefully there are a lot of smart people working on that, and not just one's working for electric companies.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27954978 - 09/17/22 05:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

There's been successful conversions of major power stations from coal to gas.

I think the same thing could be done from coal to Green Hydrogen, that way a large % of the existing power generation infrastructure remains basically unchanged. Those fly wheel generating units produce a stable grid which wind/solar plus batteries just can't achieve.
A better way to use solar is to produce hydrogen.

Large scale battery storage isn't viable and the only other option is nuclear. Like we only need to heat water to produce steam.

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Re: Climate Change [Re: Stable Genius]
    #27955035 - 09/17/22 05:41 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

The new nuclear designs are awesome and also based.


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Climate Change [Re: budmanman]
    #27955073 - 09/17/22 06:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Yes I don't really have a problem with nuclear other than the waste.

Aus sells a lot of uranium so I think if we sell it for profit we should also be the place to dispose of it.

We have stable, remote geography that could be used for underground storage. It still has a dirty by-product problem that hasn't been solved whereas Green Hydrogen doesn't appear to have any.

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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #27955113 - 09/17/22 06:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

The newer reactors can use the waste as fuel. Self solving problem.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Climate Change [Re: budmanman]
    #27955116 - 09/17/22 06:43 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

I don't love nuclear but these pebble bed reactors are pretty cool
https://www.energy.gov/ne/articles/x-energy-developing-pebble-bed-reactor-they-say-cant-melt-down


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Climate Change [Re: budmanman]
    #27955141 - 09/17/22 07:03 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
The newer reactors can use the waste as fuel. Self solving problem.




Sweet :thumbup:

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