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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Climate Change [Re: mycosis] 1
#27952737 - 09/16/22 11:45 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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quite the opposite, its just that generally we want to make the electricity do other work than generating heat so heat production is directly related to inefficiencies, especially in engines. In this case, excess electricity is being converted to heat to be used in industrial processes when supply is high and demand is low and storing it for use when demand is high and supply is low. The economics allegedly work out to being cheaper than fuel (like natural gas) which is pretty friggin cool. The same sort of systems could be used to convert solar/wind power to heat for homes, etc.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Climate Change [Re: mycosis]
#27952781 - 09/16/22 12:23 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mycosis said: I’m no rocket surgeon but isn’t turning electricity to heat an absurdly inefficient process?
Not at all. At least at the consumer end it’s 100% efficient. Heating with gas you have a lot of heat loss due to the inefficiency of the heat exchanger
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 22,488
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Climate Change [Re: koods] 2
#27952789 - 09/16/22 12:30 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Heating with gas has traditionally been cheaper because of the cost of fuel vs the cost of electricity but if renewable keep getting cheaper this sort of tech will make electric heating the winner, economically
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
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Loc: PNW
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I love my all electric home heating. Basically no maintenance.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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I haven't done the math, but what percentage of electricity comes from coal? I have heard the debate before, but is burning coal better than gas for the environment?
Also, is there a plan for our electrical grid to be widened? If everyone had an electric heater and car, as it stands the grid couldn't handle it.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (09/16/22 01:39 PM)
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Kryptos
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Gas is easier to transport than electricity.
Coal is easier to transport than gas.
In terms of pollution per kWh, coal is by far the worst. Natural Gas burns the cleanest per kWh. This is basically a factor of combustion efficiency: NG is usually a mixture of methane, ethane, and propane, i.e. the stuff that comes out of an oil well as a gas at room temp. It's a lot easier to get complete combustion from a mixture of gasses, even forced air feeding a coal furnace isn't going to get absolutely everything, you will have ash/smoke.
Also, the relative components make a difference. Coal has a bunch of other shit in it. Sulfur, nitrogen, metals. That's the really bad shit. CO2 isn't great for the environment, but as far as pollutants go, it's probably the least bad. SO2 makes acid rain, NOx makes acid rain and brain damage and ozone, and metals don't leave your body. Once they're in there, they're in there, just clogging stuff up.
Gas contains crap too coming out of the oil well, but it is mostly purified out during the refining process. Plus, it's a better source of sulfur than sulfur mining, which is horrific. Once the LNG gets to the customer, burning it is pretty clean, especially with a well designed burner. Not ideal, of course, if you have a gas stove and cook for an hour with closed windows, depending on the size of your house you might be above OSHA pollution limits (and if you've got kids, cooking with gas is associated with 42% increase in current childhood asthma), but if you did the same with coal you'd be dead.
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The plans to widen the electrical grid seem to be getting blocked by gas companies in congress. Turns out, profit margins are higher when there are shortages.
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The brick thing is interesting, but while we can turn electricity into heat with 100% efficiency, and apparently they managed to turn heat back into electricity with 98% efficiency...I don't see anything about the storing of the heat in one place. That to me seems the biggest challenge. If heat was easy to store, we'd have a lot more stirling engines.
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Hartford
Lawful Good



Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,149
Loc: Tennessee
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953091 - 09/16/22 04:06 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Would it surprise you if the inevitable answer to the climate crisis is to become Amish?
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Climate Change [Re: Hartford]
#27953095 - 09/16/22 04:08 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Amish use gas and electricity just as much as normal people, they just don't use it to have fun. And that's not an environmentalist stance, that's just because they think having fun is a sin.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953105 - 09/16/22 04:16 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Well having fun is a sin
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953148 - 09/16/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said: Gas is easier to transport than electricity.
On what planet, dude?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
#27953150 - 09/16/22 04:41 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I hate it when my electricity pipe leaks
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
budmanman said: Well having fun is a sin
I don't know if having fun is a sin, but sinning is fun af
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Kryptos
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
#27953401 - 09/16/22 06:53 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Kryptos said: Gas is easier to transport than electricity.
On what planet, dude?
Average electricity loss in power lines is 6-10%. Average energy loss in electricity generation is 65%.
Gas tankers do not leak 5-10% of their cargo every trip. Nor do dump trucks full of coal.
That's not counting the losses inherent in transforming AC to DC, because AC is only good for power transmission, DC power would be orders of magnitude less efficient.
P=I^2*R
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A fully electrified system is more efficient only due to the economy of scale, a bigass power plant is much more efficient than an internal combustion engine powering a car/generator, but that requires infrastructure. Gas can be pumped into a tanker and transported anywhere easily.
EDIT: I should also clarify: when I say "gas burns cleanest" I mean of the fossil fuels.
Edited by Kryptos (09/16/22 07:00 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Posts: 67,514
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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953455 - 09/16/22 07:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Do you know what the word "easy" means? It isn't synonymous with efficient. Even if it was, a tanker truck burns fuel and has a human driver. In no way is that easier. 1000 miles of transmission lines is a fraction of the work to build and maintain than 1000 miles of highway. Not to mention building the trucks. Your whole efficiency argument is absurd when you consider the infrastructure and equipment necessary.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about when you say AC is only good for transmission. That is simply untrue. AC motors are ubiquitous, bro, and far superior to DC in almost every way.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
#27953466 - 09/16/22 07:20 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Enlil isn't the same anymore since the sea slug vanished
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Re: Climate Change [Re: Enlil]
#27953496 - 09/16/22 07:37 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Do you know what the word "easy" means? It isn't synonymous with efficient. Even if it was, a tanker truck burns fuel and has a human driver. In no way is that easier. 1000 miles of transmission lines is a fraction of the work to build and maintain than 1000 miles of highway. Not to mention building the trucks. Your whole efficiency argument is absurd when you consider the infrastructure and equipment necessary.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about when you say AC is only good for transmission. That is simply untrue. AC motors are ubiquitous, bro, and far superior to DC in almost every way.
Then why are there so many tanks of propane out in the boonies, instead of using electric everything?
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953499 - 09/16/22 07:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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I don't know if you know this or not but those houses have electricity.
Shit we are close to the point where people can just start making their own electricity but big energy Tryna stop us from doing it
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Well obviously they do, the federal government forced the power companies to run power lines to them at great expense back in 1968.
But if electricity is so much cheaper, then why (a) do they still have tanks of propane, and (b) did the government have to force power companies to run electricity to them?
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



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Re: Climate Change [Re: Kryptos]
#27953514 - 09/16/22 07:46 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Even a propane furnace has to have electricity to run
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Kryptos
Stranger

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Flint and steel gets the job done just as well. Why should my power bills subsidize those lazy rednecks?
We should give electricity back to the invisible hand of the free market.
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