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Anonymous #1

Incapacitate Round
    #27890479 - 08/04/22 09:54 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

How the fuck is it 2022 and we dont have a round that instantly incapacitates a target with as high of accuracy as a bullet but doesnt kill the target?


Its not fucking right that these cops have to kill people that want to suicide by cop. Its fucking destroying people.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27890492 - 08/04/22 10:10 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

What if I told you that destroying people was the goal?


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Anonymous #3

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27890495 - 08/04/22 10:17 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Part of what makes a bullet accurate is it's velocity. Less velocity, less accuracy. You can really tell this while shooting bows of different draw weight. So for something to be accurate and safe for the user it needs a particular level of impact force. Even bean bags can cause a brain hemorrhage. Essentially to have a knockout projectile you'd need to figure out how to incapacitate someone without significant injury. Pain compliance is the goal with pepper spray and tasers for instance but they don't always stop someone. Pain doesn't always work when adrenaline is involved. If I made a projectile with intent to injure then at what point does it become reasonable to use and what level of injury is sufficient? What level of incapacity? Sure I could say, let's break some ribs but at what rate is it going to stop someone and at what rate are we going to discuss it's ethics?


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #3]
    #27890502 - 08/04/22 10:28 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Speaking of ethics, anon just referred to a murder as a suicide.  That sounds like what a cop would say


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27893873 - 08/07/22 05:20 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Although I know you were probably referring to the school shooter type loonies...

Not always to shooters kill innocent victims though.  Sometimes its necessity.

The world is full of shit people that do all sorts of things.  Sometimes the shooters just had enough life destroying torture from scumbags, and the cowardly worthless police won't do anything to stop it, but will to you if you do.  Its not really right to always blame the shooter, they may have had to do so to save their life either from the threat of violence and murder themselves, or the slow and painful death by poverty and homelessness.

As long as the shooters just need to get their revenge and justice in a way that doesn't involve innocent victims, I don't really judge them as inherently bad.

What people need to start doing to hooligans that burglarize and vandalize shit is something along the lines of what isis does


Hold those bitches hostage and send a video like this to the governor.  Make them pay the price.

Make them pay the price for selective enforcement.  i.e. ruining peoples life arent one of them, but refusing to stop criminals from ruining that persons life.

Would really clean things up even if you filmed a fake propaganda video.

Maybe throw some of these terrorist vandal scumbags into a woodchipper and literally use that piece of shit for fertilizer.

Shooters are actually a victim themselves sometimes.  And you never hear their side of the story.

The courts actually give a bigger penalty for it being premeditated, so that people that have been tortured on the daily and fears for their life, and eventually doesn't have a choice, get more time, than someone who just kind of whilly nilly pulls a gun out at walmart and hoses someone down for looking at them funny.

Its just what happens in a corrupt society. 

What we really need is a more lethal round and the citizens' rights to defend themselves to stop being infringed upon.  In fact not only are people are dying because of police cowardice, I think being shot dead by police is statistically way more likely than being shot by someone who isn't the police.

All cops are bastards. 


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27894102 - 08/07/22 08:19 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Wasnt talking about the school shooters. I was talking about people who decide they want to die and use cops to suicide with.

Or criminals who get caught and decide they'd rather suicide by cop then go back to prison.


The second one is more common than youd think it is. And it harms the mental health of our cops.




But I guess if the attitude is "fuck all cops" then I dunno how to deal with that. I like to think a little more nuanced than that.




For example.... if a military member shoots and kills a human being.... they can go a few ways with it. One of the ways they can go is deluding themselves into thinking they are hotshit and did really good and saved their country. This is a coping mechanism. Its to mask their ego from having to deal with the fact that they shot and killed someone.
Another way they can go is self-hate. Which ends really badly. So typically the ones who continue to be around are the ones that prop up delusions of being a hero.


This kinda shit happens with cops. So ideally we want these cops NOT killing anyone ever. Even if you dont like cops it would be better for cops to not be killing people so their psyches dont get fucked up.


Personally I think most cops join the force to do good. But thats just me.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27894806 - 08/08/22 02:59 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Why do you insist on calling murder "suicide"?


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27894865 - 08/08/22 03:45 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Why do you insist on calling murder "suicide"?





Why when I refer to "suicide by cop" do I call it "suicide by cop"?


Or are you living in a fairy tale land where some people dont use cops as a method of suicide?



You can leak your semantic arguments of what words mean all day long. It doesnt mean anything. Its literally just an argument of "suicide means kill self and the cops are shooting him!"

Its like having a problem with someone saying "Dont blow smoke up my ass" because theres no actual smoke involved.

Suicide by cop is a well known colloquialism that refers to suicide by cop.



But I guess you feel pretty righteous and smart when you make the argument though hey? Atleast theres that.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27894871 - 08/08/22 03:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I just thought of a better idea to stop this problem.

We should make a video game.

Instead of it being called Grand Theft Auto, we call it Grand Thief Whoopass

And the main character, instead of being a hooligan that goes around stealing cars, running over pedestrians, vandalizing things, and shooting cops...

You're a dirty cop, and your objective is to round up all these punks, take them where nobody's looking, and beat them senseless and suffocate them in the street and then slip a bag of coke in their pockets.

We can change the background rap music crime-jam to something more classy too.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27894923 - 08/08/22 04:32 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I dont understand what joke you are trying to make or what point you are trying to go with here.


But you have a good day bud.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27895093 - 08/08/22 07:11 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Well 1 point is that our society is the way it is because thats the way people are taught.  Violence is heavily promoted.  Maybe we could take all the ways that violence against the innocent is promoted, and change the narrative from kill the good guy to kill the bad guy.  It would be an improvement I think.  And yes I was joking.

Point 2, more importantly, is that murder and suicide need to be distinguished here.

Murderous police that kill because they have no choice should deserve to go to jail for murder.  A law is a law.  Maybe they don't deserve it because they didn't have a choice, but they deserve to be expected to follow laws they enforce

Like a case law that says police don't have to protect you when crimes are committed against.

I make this point for a reason

What you're doing, perhaps unintentionally is promoting the idea that shooting a whacko that wants to die is suicide when it's really murder, Its often not the case that these murdererous police are always telling the truth.  They have quite a bit of immunity to consequences too.

If police have to illegally commit murder and it ruins their life when they are held accountable, so also mention that the citizens are dealt with unfair conditions, like how we are expected to be defenseless.

I really wish the police would get the bad guy once in a while instead of regularly bullying young people, poor people, targetted groups just because they can get away with it

Why a criminal might be in a shootout with the police isn't always their fault.  Not everyone is dealt the same deck of cards.

Shooting a burglar for example is always murder.  It doesn't matter if you've dealt with decades of torture and the police told you to go fuck yourself, its still murder.  So when a police shootout happens because someone took matters in your own hands, and the police shoots that person, its also murder just as if they shot the police, its also murder (minus the immunity and pat on the back police get)

You've got the right idea, but it pisses me off a bit to see murder called suicide.

Police departments are allowed to discriminate against intelligent people that want the job.  They are allowed to refuse to help you.  Yet pretty much any single thing you can do to someone committing a wrong doing, is illegal.

Are you shocked that the world is full of violent people given the conditions they are unnecessarily forced to live in?

An upstanding citizen is one who stands up to the government or at least [dis]obeys them once in a while.

I think the next time my house gets vandalized or broken into to steal things one more time I could see why I might wind up in one of those "suicided" (in your cop speak) predicaments too.

Its just not so simple is as people that got murdered by police just wanted to die is all I'm saying.  As it stands now, its almost treated like a privilege and not a right to not have crimes committed against you.

I really wish anarchy could happen.  It would be so much more peaceful this way.  Then the govt wouldn't need to teach people to be scumbags just to have scumbags to "suicide".  Not saying its all their fault, or that anarchy would be 100% peaceful, just that I try not to judge people just on what the news says about someone's alleged suicide.

Vigilantes that resort to DIY justice aren't always so bad, they were just born unimportant and haven't sold out and become a traitor to their neighbors to join the good ole boys and don't have that government costume that gives them god like powers.

Blowing smoke up someone's ass means lying.  Murder means someone is responsible for someone else's death as opposed to suicide.  This is not being a smarty pants playing word games.  The difference is that someone might not be fried in an electric chair vs someone that DOES get fried in an electric chair.  That difference is much more significant than having someone blow actual smoke into your anus vs tell a lie.  I'm pretty sure you've missed my point here.  When you do this, it provides cover for murderers.  And helps cover up conspiracies.  When you speak metaphorically, that's not happening.  I can't believe you'd think I was trying to be an English teacher here.


Edited by Anonymous (08/08/22 07:23 PM)


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27895358 - 08/09/22 01:43 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

You really dont see how your argument is chalked up to word games?

We as a society have a word for when someone wants to die and uses cops to get them killed. Its called suicide by cop. You may disagree that that SHOULDNT be a word.... but its still a word. And also it doesnt really fucking matter which word I use. I'm conveying a message. I'm not defining what words mean.


My message is this: Some people suicide by cops. Typically in 2 ways. The first and much more rare way is that someone is unable to kill themselves alone so they go and find a cop and make it seem like they are reaching for a gun or they use a toy gun or something along those lines to get the cop to shoot them.

The other much more common way is a criminal will be caught while doing an illegal thing. And this person does not want to go to prison so instead they choose to beg the cop to kill them or try and get the cop to kill them in some way.





These are the ONLY two situations I am talking about when I say its not fair on the cops mental health to have to deal with this. And additionally.... if you have a cop dealing with killing people on their conscience.... it can lead to cops behaving even more poorly.

Killing someone is very very difficult. There arent very many people who can just kill someone and not care.



This fantasy world a lot of people live in where cops are all just murderous thugs going around beating up black people is just bizarre. Go ask a 16 year old who has plans to become a cop what their reasoning is for wanting to be a cop. It will always be "to protect everyone". Most cops dont join for a big dick ego demanding respect or for the paycheck. Most cops join simply to protect people.


Sure. Some cops get the power into their head and they do bad things. Power will always corrupt.


But there is a legit concern for the mental health of these people. Can you imagine being attacked by a dude with a knife and deciding between pulling out a nonlethal tazer and pulling out your gun? Like..... really put yourself in that situation. You have a tazer on the one hand..... which may or may not work..... but at least this person trying to kill you wont die if you use it...... and on the other hand you have a gun which will definitely work..... but you have to kill a person.


Its a fucked up world. I've seen a lot of fucked up shit. My brain will forever be tormenting me. And I didnt even kill anyone. I just lost people. Seeing death.... smelling death.... death being on your fingers and all around you. This feeling of helplessness......


I wish you could see it. I wish you could really be a part of it. Typing words on an internet screen doesnt do it justice.



I spent quite a few years trying to "help" people. I thought I could change the world. I thought I had ideas that would fix impoverished communities. Let me tell you from experience.... they wont work. Any plan you have. Any idea you have. That you think can help a community living in crime and poverty and killings and rape and what not..... any thing you think could help.... it wouldnt help. And its been tried before.



Really the only way to help communities like these is time. You just let the government cogs churn and churn through generations and slowly as a snail but as sure as the ocean it will fix it. Its horrifying when you realize it.


I wish I didnt ever try and help the world. I wish I just lived for myself.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27895493 - 08/09/22 07:40 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Oh, I understand what youre getting at.  The police should have non lethal rounds.

You make a good point.

Our disagreement is here

Quote:

Its literally just an argument of "suicide means kill self and the cops are shooting him!"




No it literally is not.  This is more than semantics, its a logic error.  You can't just AND those together.  They are mutually exclusive.

And someone making you want to kill someone doesn't mean murder is legal.  If this was you, then you might get away with assuming you were rich like Rittenhouse and the jury had sympathy for you or they are scared of being shot over politics or something. Rarely do ordinary citizens get away with killing in self defense.  And never is a homicide not called a homocide

I think its important to be specific and formal in definitions in court.

If we were in the field searching for mushrooms, and you were looking for Sil-Owe-Sihbs and I was looking for Sih-Loh-Sih-bees, then yes maybe we are splitting hair. 

Prosecutors and attorneys play word games.  These kangaroos often screw people on word games.  What would happen if a police force could just redefine words at their liking?

Suicide means killing one's self (self caused self to die).  You've appended "and the cops are shooting him" to your interpretation of this definition.

Murder means you died because another person made a deliberate effort to cause your life to come to an end.

"Cops are shooting him" means that the police are attempting murder him (or her, them, etc)

So we're on the same page sort of, when it comes to killing people except that I believe the cause of someones death would be important in a court case where someones life came to an end.  And I do not think I am just being an autist.

Legal stuff is complicated. 

At least we hopefully both agree that police sentencing people to death right on the spot without trial causes problems?

The government just is not always right.

Lines are no longer straight, they squiggly lines and circles with this kind of language.

But some people say potayto some say potahto i guess.

Here's an analogy.  Lets say someone had sex with a woman without her permission.  But if she didnt want that to happen why would she dress like that and stand on the corner. She was just begging for it to happen.  Is this not rape? 

Now maybe rape, which is what I would call that because it meets the definition of such crime, is justified sometimes.  If someone used the threat of murder to force someone to do it, while they had a gun pointed at them, maybe the prosecuters would throw it out, and maybe not, but are they throwing out a rape charge?  Or are they throwing out a not-rape charge?

Calling a murder a suicide is kind of enabling language for police to go around saying "he's coming right for us!!!" which happens all the time.

There have been 0 cases of people committing suicide via having a human make the conscious decision to make someone's life come to and end if you ask me.  Even if they were criminals, they were murdered criminals.  Murdered in self defense means murder.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27895557 - 08/09/22 08:53 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
Oh, I understand what youre getting at.  The police should have non lethal rounds.

You make a good point.

Our disagreement is here

Quote:

Its literally just an argument of "suicide means kill self and the cops are shooting him!"




No it literally is not.  This is more than semantics, its a logic error.  You can't just AND those together.  They are mutually exclusive.

And someone making you want to kill someone doesn't mean murder is legal.  If this was you, then you might get away with assuming you were rich like Rittenhouse and the jury had sympathy for you or they are scared of being shot over politics or something. Rarely do ordinary citizens get away with killing in self defense.  And never is a homicide not called a homocide

I think its important to be specific and formal in definitions in court.

If we were in the field searching for mushrooms, and you were looking for Sil-Owe-Sihbs and I was looking for Sih-Loh-Sih-bees, then yes maybe we are splitting hair. 

Prosecutors and attorneys play word games.  These kangaroos often screw people on word games.  What would happen if a police force could just redefine words at their liking?

Suicide means killing one's self (self caused self to die).  You've appended "and the cops are shooting him" to your interpretation of this definition.

Murder means you died because another person made a deliberate effort to cause your life to come to an end.

"Cops are shooting him" means that the police are attempting murder him (or her, them, etc)

So we're on the same page sort of, when it comes to killing people except that I believe the cause of someones death would be important in a court case where someones life came to an end.  And I do not think I am just being an autist.

Legal stuff is complicated. 

At least we hopefully both agree that police sentencing people to death right on the spot without trial causes problems?

The government just is not always right.

Lines are no longer straight, they squiggly lines and circles with this kind of language.

But some people say potayto some say potahto i guess.

Here's an analogy.  Lets say someone had sex with a woman without her permission.  But if she didnt want that to happen why would she dress like that and stand on the corner. She was just begging for it to happen.  Is this not rape? 

Now maybe rape, which is what I would call that because it meets the definition of such crime, is justified sometimes.  If someone used the threat of murder to force someone to do it, while they had a gun pointed at them, maybe the prosecuters would throw it out, and maybe not, but are they throwing out a rape charge?  Or are they throwing out a not-rape charge?

Calling a murder a suicide is kind of enabling language for police to go around saying "he's coming right for us!!!" which happens all the time.

There have been 0 cases of people committing suicide via having a human make the conscious decision to make someone's life come to and end if you ask me.  Even if they were criminals, they were murdered criminals.  Murdered in self defense means murder.



'


Why does it matter the specific wording you want people to say?

Does it change anything at all if I said "Cops killed a person who wanted to die" vs if I said "cops shot a person who wanted suicide by cop".

Its so fucking stupid what youre wanting dude. And regardless of you wanting it or not.... the point I'm mkaing isnt brought up at all. Its just..... what do words mean? Thats what you bring up.

Like people dont know what "suicide by cop" means.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #27895702 - 08/09/22 10:43 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

You just like to think in anecdotes is why you are not comprehending what I am saying. 

Someone somewhere using police as a way to
die in an extreme way could theoretically happen, sure. 

In other times police just murder someone and go, "well fuck him he wanted to die." as an excuse to kill someone they dislike.  I am betting this happens way more often than the above justification for murder.

Not every one of their murder victims were suicidal.

I bet out of all police murders, there are way more where they werent suicidal.

Why do you think meaning is not important to words?

Is this a troll?

You are saying this is something that just happens like all the time.  Could you point me to your source of propaganda that leads you to believe this?  I bet its very one sided.  Dead people cannot defend themselves.  People locked up behind sound proof glass cannot tell their side of the story.

If you do not believe that police and courts lie that you are the one in fantasy land.

The difference between suicide and murder is night and day.

Language really matters.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27896024 - 08/09/22 03:34 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I'm not here to discuss if the words "suicide by cop" should exist or not bud. You go take that up with wikipedia and the dictionary.

Ill continue using it. Because thats what we call it.


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Anonymous #2

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #27896452 - 08/09/22 07:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I kind of like your spirit.

I really wish I could find a way to keep people from robbing my house and other worthless shit.  I live next to some really trash people

I thought about many times pulling out my shotgun and assisting them with suicide, but I'm not a suicidal person that ends lives.

So I just deal with week after week of torture.

I'd call the police but I'm scared they'll suicide me.

Don't want to step out of line and get suicided.

They aren't there to help when you need them.

I wouldn't need them to help protect me against gangster type people suiciding me, but self defense and property protection is illegal.

If I beef with them it could lead to a war and I could lose my job and home, and might even lead us having to suicide each other, but I could get the suicide penalty for this and fry in the suicide chair :frown:

You need to help spread the love so people dont wind up in the situation where angry disgruntled police dont pull out their 9 millie and suicide their ass, or they don't suicide the police.  Why do they deserve to be suicided?  I'm sure they don't want to die.

Everyone always talks about what to do with criminals after they commit a crime, but hardly ever about how to prevent it in the first place.

Thing is, it doesnt always work, and thats when survival comes into play.  And thats when people get into a gun fight to see who commits suicide first.  Not always can someone be reasonable with the unreasonable

I'm too young to be suicided.  Not that I'm scared of dying. Just that I'd hate to commit suicide against someone else.  Killing is wrong.  Plus nobody will hear my side of the story.  It'll just get twisted around.

You can't fix the world's problems dude.

Carry lethal bullets. 

Rubber bullets are a toy.

This really bothers me that our corrupt government is always out their suiciding people for trying to protect their life, yet refuse to help.

I'm going to carry a UV light in my vehicle for the next time the town clown pulls me over and shines their flashlight inside of it. I'll shine my flashlight in their car to expose all their cumstains as they jerk the day away on my free pay, refusing to help good people, whilst prohibiting them helping themselves.

A large majority of cops hide behind buildings like cowards all day and get a freebie, refusing to stop real criminals and praying on the weak and defenseless.

I don't need their help for shit.  These days I'd rather them all go out of business and we all live in anarchy.  It'd be much more peaceful.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #2]
    #27896640 - 08/09/22 10:22 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #2 said:
I kind of like your spirit.

I really wish I could find a way to keep people from robbing my house and other worthless shit.  I live next to some really trash people

I thought about many times pulling out my shotgun and assisting them with suicide, but I'm not a suicidal person that ends lives.

So I just deal with week after week of torture.

I'd call the police but I'm scared they'll suicide me.

Don't want to step out of line and get suicided.

They aren't there to help when you need them.

I wouldn't need them to help protect me against gangster type people suiciding me, but self defense and property protection is illegal.

If I beef with them it could lead to a war and I could lose my job and home, and might even lead us having to suicide each other, but I could get the suicide penalty for this and fry in the suicide chair :frown:

You need to help spread the love so people dont wind up in the situation where angry disgruntled police dont pull out their 9 millie and suicide their ass, or they don't suicide the police.  Why do they deserve to be suicided?  I'm sure they don't want to die.

Everyone always talks about what to do with criminals after they commit a crime, but hardly ever about how to prevent it in the first place.

Thing is, it doesnt always work, and thats when survival comes into play.  And thats when people get into a gun fight to see who commits suicide first.  Not always can someone be reasonable with the unreasonable

I'm too young to be suicided.  Not that I'm scared of dying. Just that I'd hate to commit suicide against someone else.  Killing is wrong.  Plus nobody will hear my side of the story.  It'll just get twisted around.

You can't fix the world's problems dude.

Carry lethal bullets. 

Rubber bullets are a toy.

This really bothers me that our corrupt government is always out their suiciding people for trying to protect their life, yet refuse to help.

I'm going to carry a UV light in my vehicle for the next time the town clown pulls me over and shines their flashlight inside of it. I'll shine my flashlight in their car to expose all their cumstains as they jerk the day away on my free pay, refusing to help good people, whilst prohibiting them helping themselves.

A large majority of cops hide behind buildings like cowards all day and get a freebie, refusing to stop real criminals and praying on the weak and defenseless.

I don't need their help for shit.  These days I'd rather them all go out of business and we all live in anarchy.  It'd be much more peaceful.





Some people are suiciding by cops. Even you agreed with that.

I'm talking specifically about suicide by cop deaths. So I cant be wrong. Do you not understand that?

I specifically am saying "people who suicide by cops are suiciding by cops" its not a physically possible sentence that can be wrong.



People do do it. And those are the situations im talking about. So I win. You lose. Have a good day.


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Anonymous #4

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #1] * 1
    #27896647 - 08/09/22 10:30 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

I’m sure we do.  Alien technology is ever present and apparational.  Opening your mind to the possibilities avail you to the impossibilities.  It’s a matter of perspective.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Incapacitate Round [Re: Anonymous #4]
    #27896661 - 08/09/22 10:41 PM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous #4 said:
I’m sure we do.  Alien technology is ever present and apparational.  Opening your mind to the possibilities avail you to the impossibilities.  It’s a matter of perspective.





Even though youre being stupid.... at least you actually read my post and responded to what its about. Lol. Thank you.


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