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twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 29,547
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic]
#27883225 - 07/30/22 06:04 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Cuba is one lens - Vietnam on the other hand was intensifying at that time, Kennedy increased troop numbers from 800 to 16,000 by his death - authorized the use of agent orange & had given approval to an interior South Vietnamese coup 21 days before he died.
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: twighead] 2
#27883457 - 07/30/22 08:54 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah really puts into perspective just how deranged and evil our country is when that guy is remembered fondly as the peacenik.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,755
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27883485 - 07/30/22 09:13 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Stable Genius] 1
#27883496 - 07/30/22 09:20 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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If I broke into your house and killed half your family, how much credit would I get for telling you I planned on leaving soon?
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27883507 - 07/30/22 09:29 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: he was one of very few who understood that moving missiles into Cuba wasn’t some unprecedented escalation, it was akin to what the US did when it moved Jupiter missiles into Turkey. JFK wasn’t completely ethical or reasonable or diplomatic, he was just less of a psychopath than the people around him, specifically in the ‘Exectuvie Committee.’
And I think the story goes he wasn't even aware there were U.S. missiles in Turkey when he came to power, yeah?
I'm not disagreeing with you, or trying to paint him as a saint. The point of my JFK post was to illustrate that he was astute/politically intelligent enough to take Russia's position into account and whether anyone wants to admit it or not it was his reasoning that averted a nuclear exchange.
It's a damn shame the present crop of politicians only take orders from the military and my government is equally as shitful and gets sucked along with it.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#27883516 - 07/30/22 09:37 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: If I broke into your house and killed half your family, how much credit would I get for telling you I planned on leaving soon?
He deserves his share of blame for the destruction and deaths in Vietnam.
In regards the Cuban missile crisis, how easy do you think it would have been for him to go against his advisers, with 99% of them calling for military action?
I think his reasoning, in this instance, was sound. Was he more concerned that this was THE END instead of hurting Russia? Most likely, however he still asked the question "we ought to think of why the Russian's did this".
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27883718 - 07/31/22 05:15 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Yeah really puts into perspective just how deranged and evil our country is when that guy is remembered fondly as the peacenik.
JFK's reputation was probably enhanced by only being President for two and a half years. Carter, with a couple exceptions was our most peacenik President, and that doesn't seem to be a reputation that works in this country.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,256
Loc: where?
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Brian Jones]
#27883732 - 07/31/22 06:27 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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who says jfk was a pacifist?
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mushboy]
#27883737 - 07/31/22 06:36 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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The military brass thought he wanted to get out of Vietnam. Probably he wanted to avoid escalating it, basically just stalling because it was a no win situation politically.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


Registered: 09/26/18
Posts: 5,755
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mushboy] 2
#27883744 - 07/31/22 06:54 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: i dont deny my bias im an american male aged 17-47 the world revolves around my bias.
however. in a historical context russia got this one wrong and history will not treat putin well.
the optics are terrible, the propaganda is laughable. the military is borderline combat ineffective. war crimes are taking place.
like these are facts jack it doesnt make you less a person to admit them.
russia could be, not likely, 100% justified but the build up, execution and continuation of this dumpster fire make russia/putin look really really bad.
There's been a lot said in this thread about the biased media coverage.
June 23rd. Forbes, according to information supplied by the Ukrainian and U.S. military said there has been only 4 M-777 Howitzers destroyed so far. That's how I read their article anyway, I could be wrong. https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/06/23/the-russians-are-targeting-ukraines-american-made-howitzers/?sh=2c848b6f4080
RT reported on June 19 that 10 of the M-777's were destroyed https://www.rt.com/russia/557428-50-ukrainian-generals-officers-killed-russia/ and May 23rd supposedly a battery of M-777's were destroyed. How many in a battery? 6+? https://www.rt.com/russia/555935-army-destroys-american-howitzers/
Also, those M-777's aren't being supplied with advanced computer targeting, just in case they fall into Russian hands. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-supplied-howitzers-ukraine-lack-accuracy-aiding-computers/story?id=84840798
And the 16 HIMARS that were supplied are down to 12 after 4 were destroyed according to the Russian military, a claim which has been denied by the Ukrainian military. Russia has also claimed that the HIMARS were being 'fired blind' into the Donetsk region are were used to hit that prison the other day. https://www.rt.com/russia/559843-ukraine-himars-missile-target-blind/
The liveua map shows Russian forces making gains, they have taken control of the entire Luhansk region and are on their way to doing the same thing in the Donetsk region. I haven't looked at this for a couple of weeks and I was surprised by the gains in the south, particularly the area north east of Kherson. So who's telling the truth? I don't know, but it looks like Russia is winning and if that's the case then I can't see any facts I'm missing that I need to admit to.
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mushboy] 2
#27883757 - 07/31/22 07:20 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: russia could be, not likely, 100% justified but
Watch out using that word justified + Russia in the same sentence around here
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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In an earlier post you said Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe. My search said it was either them or Moldova, and since I doubt we could find them on the map, let's say it's Ukraine. But Russian life expectancy is only .15 years better than Ukraine, despite Russia being ranked 10th or 11th in GDP in the world. To me that makes your statement that Ukraine is also the most corrupt country in Europe questionable, and I would nominate Russia. The death statistics say a lot about the economic condition s for regular people. I would also nominate Russia as least democratic country in Europe, but that's another issue and I don't expect to change anyone's mind on that.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,256
Loc: where?
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Quote:
Stable Genius said:
Quote:
mushboy said: russia could be, not likely, 100% justified but
Watch out using that word justified + Russia in the same sentence around here 
my hypothetical scenario is about as likely as salt water turning to gold.
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Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
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Quote:
Stable Genius said: looks like Russia is winning and if that's the case then I can't see any facts I'm missing that I need to admit to.
Winning !
Quote:
Heavy Russian strikes hit the southern Ukrainian port city of Mykolaiv overnight and early on Sunday. The attacks killed the owner of one of the country's largest grain producing and exporting companies, the local governor said. Oleksiy Vadatursky, founder and owner of agriculture company Nibulon and his wife, were killed in their home, Mykolaiv Governor Vitaliy Kim said on Telegram
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/07/31/russia-hits-southern-ukraine-city-killing-grain-exporter-governor-says.html
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mycosis


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,727
Loc: USSA
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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: Psilynut2]
#27884050 - 07/31/22 12:41 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Yay Russia!
After more than five months of fighting they’ve almost conquered two provinces that wanted to join them anyway!!
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koods
Ribbit


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mycosis]
#27884139 - 07/31/22 02:05 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Do you know how hard it is to completely destroy entire median sized cities?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Hey everyone, I'm back! 
Lots of interesting news while I was banned. Let's start with this:
For those who refuse to admit that the US/Ukraine bear any responsibility for the war in Ukraine, Poroshenko just said the reason he signed the Minsk agreements wasn't for peace, but to buy Ukraine time to build up its military "to restore Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in the internationally recognized borders" (to take Donbas and Crimea).
Watch from 7:00 - 8:15
More on this topic here.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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mycosis


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,727
Loc: USSA
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Let's play bingo! 
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi


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Re: The Official Ukraine War Threat [Re: mycosis]
#27884376 - 07/31/22 05:26 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Stable Genius
Durka durka


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Great to see you back Falcon! 
It’s likely very few people will read that article by RT, even though it’s excellent reporting on 1. Why Poreshenko is such a shit/two faced politician. 2. Why Zelensky had no chance of resolving this after his election.
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