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 vts1134
member
Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 159
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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 Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? 
#278826 - 03/25/01 09:24 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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if you are sterilizing an hour you are not sterilizing enough at all, I sterilize my rye for 3-4 hours at 19 psi and the slimy stuff is bacteria and yes a new source of rye may be advisable
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: vts1134]
#278927 - 03/25/01 10:17 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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3-4 hours? What size jars are you using? And how many are you packing in that autoclave?
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lounge lizard
enthusiast
Registered: 01/06/01
Posts: 101
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 22 years, 11 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Kast]
#278948 - 03/25/01 10:44 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Soaking your rye overnight in spring water will help get rid of some of the bacterial contams. Then autoclave for an hour or so and you should be fine. Anyone have problems with stalled rye jars? Could a bacterial contamination be the source of my problem? The jars take of then they just kind of halt.
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: lounge lizard]
#278988 - 03/25/01 11:37 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Bacteria is a common cause of halted growth, yes.
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MrBoomer
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 7
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch?
#279227 - 03/26/01 09:39 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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So what's the general consensus - preboiling? presoaking?
It's so weird, some of the jars will actually show heavy mycelium growth and then after a shake on day 12 or so all the mycelium will disappear and never recover. Then comes the "looks too wet" kernel sydrome.
My main concern is my upcoming use of spawn bags. Is presoaking and preboiling and THEN filling the bags and pressure-cooking the holy hell out of them the best way?
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 ar393
old timer
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 702
Loc: VT
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch?
#279242 - 03/26/01 10:14 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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i also used to have some major rye issues, my methods now:
soak rye overnight, then rise the shi for like 10 minutes under hot water (my sink the water gets quite hot, and i have one of those nifty spray thingies).
this greatly reduced contams, and also reduces that nasty stank smell from PCing.
i just take the soaked/rinsed rye, fill my quart jars about 1/2 way, and PC for about an hour at above 15 PSI (anywhere from 15 to 20, depending on how carefully i am watching the stove)
im relatively new on rye, but this seems to work out, and this is also compiled form many tips i have received
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NeonBlack
enthusiast
Registered: 11/23/00
Posts: 331
Last seen: 15 years, 22 days
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279244 - 03/26/01 10:16 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually, let me go through what I do... I use a whole bottle of peroxide and add water until it's an inch or so above the rye.. I let it sit there and bubble for a while, usually about an hour.. Then I put the pot on the burner and boil/simmer the rye for an hour.. Then I drain it and rinse all the gunk off.. Pressure cook that and you'll be fine..
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Ryche Hawk
A Messenger
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 2,112
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: NeonBlack]
#279265 - 03/26/01 10:43 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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First off, you do NOT want to cook your rye for 3 to 4 hours.
45 minutes to 1 hour is plenty. Any more then that your start carmelizing the sugar make up of the rye, which will inhibit strong mycelia growth.
Stamets clearly points this out in his books.
Pre-soaking the rye is important.
Also the quality of the rye. We have had these same problems with some of the rye we have used. Changed the rye up and the problems went away.
Also we used less water in the rye. To much water in the rye to begin with can bring on that slimy bacteia, wet spot.
peace
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Ryche Hawk]
#279293 - 03/26/01 11:40 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, just compare how dry the PF substrate is compared to that stinking ass rye. I've also added vermiculite to absorb some of the extra moisture, too. But for some reason, it seemed harder to break apart later on in colonization. (It may have just been me, I dont know for sure).
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ralphster44
collector
Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 4,657
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 Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch?
#279451 - 03/26/01 04:53 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by administrator.
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: ralphster44]
#279582 - 03/26/01 07:46 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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What's the shipping on FP's rye? They're so damn expensive; Probably because ol' Stamets knows he's basically got a monopoly on the mushroom cultivation world.
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Carnelian
newbie
Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 21
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Kast]
#279635 - 03/26/01 09:16 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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I got my rye from FP, but ordered other stuff, so not sure of exact shipping. It was $25 for 50lb, but the shipping may have been $15. FP gets it from Montana Merchandising Inc.
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Eddie Walker
enthusiast
Registered: 11/28/00
Posts: 142
Last seen: 23 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Kast]
#279648 - 03/26/01 09:35 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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F.P. Organic Rye Grain you could look at it like that Kast or you could say it is high quality and is therefore expensive.
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MrBoomer
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 7
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Eddie Walker]
#279658 - 03/26/01 10:08 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I'm also using FP rye grain. Have been for the past couple of attempts now as I bought one of the 50lb bags. You should've seen the postman's face when he lugged that over the counter.
Anyways - is there no problem with boiling with hydrogen peroxide and water? Specifically referring to the post talking about boiling in a whole bottle of h202 and water. Is that alright? If so that sounds like a pretty much surefire way of ensuring sterlization.
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MPG
member
Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 56
Loc: B.C.,MI,USA
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279678 - 03/26/01 10:42 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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How do you guys place the lids on your jars, seal down or up? How tight?
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Kast
old hand
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 222
Last seen: 19 years, 4 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279681 - 03/26/01 10:46 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you boil h2o2 it breaks down. It will actually break down at a temperature of 140* (or was it 160*?), so don't even add it to hot water.
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Carnelian
newbie
Registered: 03/25/01
Posts: 21
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279682 - 03/26/01 10:46 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pre Pressure cooking peroxide treatment may have some effect, but the peroxide will not be effective any more after it is pressure cooked because of heat, some people treat the grains with h20 after pressure cooking, but you'd have to have water content right.
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MrBoomer
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 7
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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 Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Carnelian]
#279707 - 03/26/01 11:56 PM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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So here's my next question:
If the peroxide breaks down is that ok? I mean, if I soak it in it and let the h202 do its business on the grain and then I just pressure cook it, will it's breaking down adversely affect the grain as it will be boiled into the grain when I preboil it and thus become part of the water content? Anyone grown like that?
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Shroomzilla
enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/01
Posts: 177
Loc: Texas, home of the longho...
Last seen: 22 years, 6 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279787 - 03/27/01 02:45 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Peroxide is basically an oxidizer, and it likes to attack and break down organic matter. This can be good or bad. In terms of mixing a bunch in with the rye, it will tend to break down a lot the the nutrients present.
Peroxide is also not too effective against the dreaded green mold. I have soaked cakes in peroxide at the first sign of of "green death", and never once has it completely eliminated it.
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NeonBlack
enthusiast
Registered: 11/23/00
Posts: 331
Last seen: 15 years, 22 days
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: MrBoomer]
#279849 - 03/27/01 06:37 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I actually add the peroxide to the rye and let it soak before I cook it. I just do that to take care of some of the pesky bacteria that plague bad rye. My rye is somewhat questionable, so that's why I took the extra precaution. After letting the rye and peroxide soak for an hour, then I cook it for 45 minutes.. That breaks down a hell of a lot of that peroxide, then pressure cooking would break down whatever's left and hopefully take care of the little green meanies.. H2O2 is a pretty unstable molecule anyway, even light will break it down, that's why it's in a brown bottle.. I haven't had any problems doing it that way.. But that's just me. :-)
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Prellgott
addict
Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 383
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 Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: NeonBlack]
#279885 - 03/27/01 08:49 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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I love Rye and peroxide..
I just put 100gRye/105g Water + teaspoon gypsum in a 500ml jar..p cook for 1,5h...let it cool and injekt 6ml peroxide and innoculate it with two spoons of Rye Spawn..
colonizes in about 8-12 days
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MrBoomer
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/01
Posts: 7
Last seen: 22 years, 3 months
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 Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Prellgott]
#279889 - 03/27/01 08:55 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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So does soaking the rye in h202 or squirting some in it post-colonization before you innoculate a bad thing? I think someone posted that it'll break down some of the nutritional value of the rye. Is this so? Has anyone done use one of these techniques or something like them and had success?
I really think rye grain is the best bet for substrate, it's just so damn difficult.
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Doublesided
Stranger
Registered: 03/27/01
Posts: 4
Last seen: 23 years, 5 months
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Carnelian]
#279891 - 03/27/01 09:18 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Carnelian,
Do you have a link or any contanct info for Montana Merchandising?
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Ryche Hawk
A Messenger
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 2,112
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Re: Rye grain - Always a bitch? [Re: Doublesided]
#279903 - 03/27/01 10:03 AM (23 years, 5 months ago) |
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Another friend of mine adds a table spoon of crushed oyster per quart jar. She says the pan species love it and colonize it much faster. I have not tried it yet personally but she is a real good grower so I'm sure it works.
peace
--------------------
-Peace-
High Quality MUSHROOM SPORES and CULTURES for microscopy at www.muShrooms.com
muShrooms.com is the new web site of
www.thehawkseye.com
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