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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27908325 - 08/18/22 02:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Can you imagine how legal abortion can lead to the degradation of the peace?

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #27908495 - 08/18/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The Freakonomics guy claims that legalized abortions caused the drastic decline in violent crime from the early/mid 90s on.

Other people have claimed that it was the reduction in childhood lead exposure.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #27908501 - 08/18/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Can you imagine how legal abortion can lead to the degradation of the peace?



No


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908543 - 08/18/22 05:23 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I imagine there could be more shootings and bombings at abortion clinics . Maybe that's what he's talking about .


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Psilynut2]
    #27908560 - 08/18/22 05:40 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

When people defile their conscience by murdering their children, it causes society to degrade.

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27908579 - 08/18/22 05:53 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Abortion isn't murder,  though.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908581 - 08/18/22 05:55 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The motherly instinct seems to think so

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27908584 - 08/18/22 05:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

That's a evolutionary chemical reaction. The point of society is to rise about the savage, primitive nature of our chemistry. That's why religion is so harmful.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908591 - 08/18/22 06:03 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The motherly instinct might be hard to shake without religion. It might even be driving religious sentiment, partly. The point is, the counties that are more peaceful will be better places to live and that should be a state's rights issue.

Think of it as an agar plate with multi spore, where contamination inhibits growth.

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford]
    #27908615 - 08/18/22 06:31 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Places such as Quebec and the Czech Republic have become substantially less religious. Has this made them less peaceful?


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27908654 - 08/18/22 07:05 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Soon there will be cats living with dogs, people double-dipping and rampant uncle Ben tek users :facepalm3:

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Onlinechristopera
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27908663 - 08/18/22 07:10 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

My cat sleeps literally on my dog and I had good luck with Uncle Bens Tek (just tried it for shits and giggles, it's easier and cheaper the BRF). So yeah, "soon" is pretty much in the past.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford]
    #27908944 - 08/18/22 11:35 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Can you imagine how legal abortion can lead to the degradation of the peace?




We don't have to imagine it. It's been the reality for quite some time now. I know several women who have had abortions and don't ever think about it... ever. If I were a woman, I'd have an abortion, just to try it. Fetus's are very useful for research, btw. My dead babies would be organ donors.


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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27909467 - 08/19/22 11:17 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Can you imagine how legal abortion can lead to the degradation of the peace?




We don't have to imagine it. It's been the reality for quite some time now. I know several women who have had abortions and don't ever think about it... ever. If I were a woman, I'd have an abortion, just to try it. Fetus's are very useful for research, btw. My dead babies would be organ donors.





They don't ever think about it because they're not good people.

Edited by Orokusaki (08/19/22 11:31 AM)

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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27909470 - 08/19/22 11:18 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Abortion isn't murder,  though.





Says who?

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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27909475 - 08/19/22 11:21 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?



Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.





Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?



Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.





Actually this new belief in non life, that were nothing more than bags of meat, belief in no form of spirit is new. And I'm inclined to believe it has to do partially with the rise of autism.

The vast majority of societies and people have believed in spirit or some sort of soul, historically speaking.

Why would murder be encouraged? How'd you come to that conclusion?

Your legs must hurt because the assumption leaps you're making are astounding.

Edited by Orokusaki (08/19/22 11:30 AM)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki]
    #27909550 - 08/19/22 12:08 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?



Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.





Actually this new belief in non life, that were nothing more than bags of meat, belief in no form of spirit is new. And I'm inclined to believe it has to do partially with the rise of autism.

The vast majority of societies and people have believed in spirit or some sort of soul, historically speaking.

Why would murder be encouraged? How'd you come to that conclusion?

Your legs must hurt because the assumption leaps you're making are astounding.




You're right, atheism is on the rise in America, according to PEW research. Just the other day I looked up the most recent polling data, and I was pleasantly surprised, but the reason they suggest that religiousity is on the decline, was quite surprising, and funny. They said that people are turning away from religion, because it is so strongly associated with Republicans/conservativism, and they do not want to be associated with the "values" of conservatives.

I would like to say that this change arose through the various revelations of modern science, which is the foundation for all human prosperity in our day and age. It's obvious that religion has no place in the intellectual world, for many reasons. I suppose I could list them for you, but if you're not aware, you're probably not interested in the truth.

You do, however, misrepresent the views of atheists/agnostics. Most of us are not of the opinion that life is nothing more than 'bags of meat'. Life is an exceptionally rare and wonderful anomaly in our universe. Life is the only meaning in the universe. Certainly, nobody wants to kill babies, but if the alternative is to allow a life to be born into an abusive world that is unwilling or unable to properly care for it, then it is an act of mercy to destroy it.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27909728 - 08/19/22 02:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?



Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.





Actually this new belief in non life, that were nothing more than bags of meat, belief in no form of spirit is new. And I'm inclined to believe it has to do partially with the rise of autism.

The vast majority of societies and people have believed in spirit or some sort of soul, historically speaking.

Why would murder be encouraged? How'd you come to that conclusion?

Your legs must hurt because the assumption leaps you're making are astounding.




You're right, atheism is on the rise in America, according to PEW research. Just the other day I looked up the most recent polling data, and I was pleasantly surprised, but the reason they suggest that religiousity is on the decline, was quite surprising, and funny. They said that people are turning away from religion, because it is so strongly associated with Republicans/conservativism, and they do not want to be associated with the "values" of conservatives.

I would like to say that this change arose through the various revelations of modern science, which is the foundation for all human prosperity in our day and age. It's obvious that religion has no place in the intellectual world, for many reasons. I suppose I could list them for you, but if you're not aware, you're probably not interested in the truth.

You do, however, misrepresent the views of atheists/agnostics. Most of us are not of the opinion that life is nothing more than 'bags of meat'. Life is an exceptionally rare and wonderful anomaly in our universe. Life is the only meaning in the universe. Certainly, nobody wants to kill babies, but if the alternative is to allow a life to be born into an abusive world that is unwilling or unable to properly care for it, then it is an act of mercy to destroy it.





You seem to not understand basic philosophy. I'm not interested in your subjective feelings on how special or rare you think life is. Though I'm not sure how you can speak for the entire community on the subject, I doubt you've read any polling on the subject.

Anyway, what I'm specifically referencing by the bags of meat comment is the ideological constraints materialists and atheists place themselves by embracing materialism.

In your ideological narrative, everything is random and we exist through chance. There is no true life, no life force, no spirit, nothing beyond the material. Were here by accident. All we are is biological machines, essentially no different than a rock that can move, and you can't really claim it matters that we exist or what we do.

Most of you will try to claim "Well it matters to me."

And I'll say, yea and how do you define that? How do you measure it? A feeling? Isn't that just a chemical interaction in a machine, that in the grand scheme of things was brought about by randomness?

Then you'll try to argue that you somehow give it all meaning. To which I'll say,

Yea? What is this grand meaning you bestow, oh biological machine which exists by random occurrence and accident? How do you decide you've given it meaning? An idea, a feeling?

More chemicals in a random universe. More illusions and phantom nonexistant ghosts of the material world.

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki]
    #27909830 - 08/19/22 03:12 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orokusaki said:
You seem to not understand basic philosophy. I'm not interested in your subjective feelings on how special or rare you think life is. Though I'm not sure how you can speak for the entire community on the subject, I doubt you've read any polling on the subject.




Why would you doubt me?

^^^ That's a link to the study.

Quote:

Anyway, what I'm specifically referencing by the bags of meat comment is the ideological constraints materialists and atheists place themselves by embracing materialism.




I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not using the word "materialism" in the conventional way, but probably the secondary definition here:

Quote:

ma·te·ri·al·ism/məˈtirēəˌlizəm/

noun
1.
a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values.
"they hated the sinful materialism of the wicked city"
2.
PHILOSOPHY
the doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications.




It's still pretty funny to have someone call me a materialist. My gf would certainly laugh. I'm one of the least materialistic people I know of. However, by the second definition, I suppose I do somewhat fit the bill, but there are things beyond matter. Photons don't have any mass, and quantum forces, such as electromagnetism and gravity are massless.

Quote:

In your ideological narrative, everything is random and we exist through chance. There is no true life, no life force, no spirit, nothing beyond the material. Were here by accident. All we are is biological machines, essentially no different than a rock that can move, and you can't really claim it matters that we exist or what we do.




That's a strawman. You're misrepresenting my views. There is life, as evidenced by... life. Life force is ATP, and photosynthesis. Our energy comes from the sun, ultimately. Many cultures have worshipped the sun, but we now know it to be a large collection of a couple gases, with such incredible mass, that the gravitational force at the center is strong enough to create nuclear fusion. It's not a god.

Likewise, your god can be ruled out by similar means, though basic logic will generally suffice. That's not to say there isn't a god. If there is one, nobody can claim to know him. Not in the way of formal religion. Call me a doubting Thomas, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, in my experience.

Quote:

Most of you will try to claim "Well it matters to me."

And I'll say, yea and how do you define that? How do you measure it? A feeling? Isn't that just a chemical interaction in a machine, that in the grand scheme of things was brought about by randomness?

Then you'll try to argue that you somehow give it all meaning. To which I'll say,

Yea? What is this grand meaning you bestow, oh biological machine which exists by random occurrence and accident? How do you decide you've given it meaning? An idea, a feeling?

More chemicals in a random universe. More illusions and phantom nonexistant ghosts of the material world.




Meaning is a very personal thing. Each person must establish their own purpose, and their own meaning in life. That's true with or without religion, and religion offers a very poor substitution for real, legitimate meaning.

Do you realize what you are saying? Of the billions of stars in our galaxy, we may very well be the only civilization. The chances of multicellular life existing are astronomically small, and the chance of intelligent multicellular life existing are almost non existent. The chance that a person with your genetics lives and breaths; that the sperm and egg that made you came together in the first place, are so very small.

What more do you want? Your brain is the most complex piece of technology in the known universe. You are the means by which matter experiences the universe. How is that not enough? Souls may exist, but we have no evidence of their existence. Do you need to live forever to justify living?

This is all my view. I can't give meaning to your life, and I would argue that neither can religion. False meaning is not meaning at all.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki]
    #27909939 - 08/19/22 04:37 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orokusaki said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Abortion isn't murder,  though.





Says who?



See above.


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