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Orokusaki
Stranger

Registered: 08/23/21
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
#27907939 - 08/18/22 09:57 AM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Hartford said:
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koods said: Wtf does that have to do with what I said
I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?
You think homicide laws are based on religion? Like without religion we’d all be ok with mass murder? Even animals don’t behave like that.
Mmmmm. I disagree. I'm guessing you've never heard of otters.
But thats besides the point.
What would it matter if animals did behave like that?
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Hartford
Lawful Good



Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,149
Loc: Tennessee
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All I'm saying is,
From your perspective, is the law banning murder well founded, and if so, what is it based upon?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Quote:
Orokusaki said:
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koods said: Well there’s no such thing as souls. That is a religious construct and has no business being a factor in guiding public policy.
That's an a priori quasi religious/philosophical belief that you personally hold.
It's dishonest to state it as a fact or in a way that implies you can even know it as a fact.
It's business in guiding public policy is exactly the same as any other belief. The people who believe it have every right to influence society and allow their beliefs to influence their votes as they see fit.
There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



Registered: 01/11/05
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There is a difference between killing something and murder.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Orokusaki
Stranger

Registered: 08/23/21
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
#27908094 - 08/18/22 12:03 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Orokusaki said:
Quote:
koods said: Well there’s no such thing as souls. That is a religious construct and has no business being a factor in guiding public policy.
That's an a priori quasi religious/philosophical belief that you personally hold.
It's dishonest to state it as a fact or in a way that implies you can even know it as a fact.
It's business in guiding public policy is exactly the same as any other belief. The people who believe it have every right to influence society and allow their beliefs to influence their votes as they see fit.
There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.
Idk I think the experiences of the majority of the trillions of humans that have lived counts as evidence, as the vast majority of humans to ever live believed in some form of true life.
You're confusing opinion with fact by saying there's no "rational" reason to think souls might be real.
They absolutely do not know that consciousness is the property of a physical brain. You need to do some reading because your perspective concerning what we understand and know vs what we axiomatically assume is skewed.
Saying you damage or destroy the brain and therefore destroy consciousness is synonymous to saying that by breaking the b button on a controller you take away the little man on the screens ability to jump, therefore that somehow proves there was no one using the controller?
There's no known mechanism?
Ok. You're just reiterating the limits of materialism at this point. I'm aware materialism is limited to the material.
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Orokusaki
Stranger

Registered: 08/23/21
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: There is a difference between killing something and murder.
What's the difference?
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 20 minutes, 46 seconds
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When you run over a hitchhiker accidentally with your truck, that’s killing someone. Picking up the hitchhiker and strangling her with your shoelace and dumping her in a state park, that’s murder.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Bandwagon
Alpha
Registered: 08/18/22
Posts: 133
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
#27908137 - 08/18/22 12:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Orokusaki said: What's the difference?
Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.
Edited by Bandwagon (08/18/22 12:35 PM)
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods] 1
#27908158 - 08/18/22 12:49 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bandwagon said:
Quote:
Orokusaki said: What's the difference?
Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.
Abortion is intentional, but it is not murder. Killing in war is not considered murder, even by Biblical standards.
Quote:
koods said: There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.
Extracorporeal consciousness will likely exist within our lifetime. It will arise from silica based neural networks, and will only serve to bolster your argument, honestly.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] 1
#27908162 - 08/18/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hartford said:
Quote:
koods said: Wtf does that have to do with what I said
I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?
Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
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Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 6 hours, 4 minutes
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Quote:
Bandwagon said:
Quote:
Orokusaki said: What's the difference?
Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.
All you have differentiated is first degree murder from second degree.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 29 minutes, 17 seconds
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
Quote:
Bandwagon said:
Quote:
Orokusaki said: What's the difference?
Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.
All you have differentiated is first degree murder from second degree.
Isn't the difference that first degree is premeditated, and second degree is spur of the moment? I think they both require intent, otherwise it's manslaughter..
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Intent and premeditation aren't the same. Manslaughter can also have intent, btw.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 29 minutes, 17 seconds
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
#27908194 - 08/18/22 01:16 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Intent and premeditation aren't the same. Manslaughter can also have intent, btw.
Well, what is the difference between manslaughter and murder, then?
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Voluntary manslaughter is in the heat of passion. Involuntary manslaughter is grossly negligent. Murder is with malice aforethought. First degree murder is with premeditation. Felony murder requires no intent to kill.
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
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Last seen: 29 minutes, 17 seconds
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
#27908228 - 08/18/22 01:42 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Voluntary manslaughter is in the heat of passion. Involuntary manslaughter is grossly negligent. Murder is with malice aforethought. First degree murder is with premeditation. Felony murder requires no intent to kill.
I have a friend who did 5 years in prison for accidently killing another friend. They were boxing, and he punched the guy, and he was knocked down, hit his head on a tree stump and died.
I think that was manslaughter. There was intent to do harm, but that's the nature of the game.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Boxing isn't Intent to harm. He got involuntary manslaughter.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Hartford
Lawful Good



Registered: 11/27/19
Posts: 1,149
Loc: Tennessee
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
#27908258 - 08/18/22 01:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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Can we agree that the basis of these laws is to keep the peace?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] 2
#27908266 - 08/18/22 02:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago) |
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That's an oversimplification, but yes... that's part of it.
This is why abortion should be legal and maybe mandatory. Dead babies do not disturb the peace by crying all the time.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Bigbadwooof
Snitterbundem The Dirty



Registered: 12/07/13
Posts: 14,480
Last seen: 29 minutes, 17 seconds
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Quote:
Hartford said: Can we agree that the basis of these laws is to keep the peace?
The laws are meant to prevent murder. Murder can potentially be very peaceful, even if it does require malice. For instance, if you give someone a big fat shot of fentanyl and it kills them, peacefully.
-------------------- "It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti FARTS "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell Every one of you should see this video. "Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns
 
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