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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
    #27907939 - 08/18/22 09:57 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?




You think homicide laws are based on religion? Like without religion we’d all be ok with mass murder? Even animals don’t behave like that.





Mmmmm. I disagree. I'm guessing you've never heard of otters.


But thats besides the point.

What would it matter if animals did behave like that?

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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki]
    #27907952 - 08/18/22 10:11 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

All I'm saying is,

From your perspective, is the law banning murder well founded, and if so, what is it based upon?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki]
    #27908032 - 08/18/22 11:16 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orokusaki said:
Quote:

koods said:
Well there’s no such thing as souls. That is a religious construct and has no business being a factor in guiding public policy.





That's an a priori quasi religious/philosophical belief that you personally hold.

It's dishonest to state it as a fact or in a way that implies you can even know it as a fact.

It's business in guiding public policy is exactly the same as any other belief. The people who believe it have every right to influence society and allow their beliefs to influence their votes as they see fit.




There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.


--------------------
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“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford]
    #27908062 - 08/18/22 11:39 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

There is a difference between killing something and murder.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
    #27908094 - 08/18/22 12:03 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Orokusaki said:
Quote:

koods said:
Well there’s no such thing as souls. That is a religious construct and has no business being a factor in guiding public policy.





That's an a priori quasi religious/philosophical belief that you personally hold.

It's dishonest to state it as a fact or in a way that implies you can even know it as a fact.

It's business in guiding public policy is exactly the same as any other belief. The people who believe it have every right to influence society and allow their beliefs to influence their votes as they see fit.




There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.





Idk I think the experiences of the majority of the trillions of humans that have lived  counts as evidence, as the vast majority of humans to ever live believed in some form of true life.

You're confusing opinion with fact by saying there's no "rational" reason to think souls might be real.

They absolutely do not know that consciousness is the property of a physical brain. You need to do some reading because your perspective concerning what we understand and know vs what we axiomatically assume is skewed.

Saying you damage or destroy the brain and therefore destroy consciousness is synonymous to saying that by breaking the b button on a controller you take away the little man on the screens ability to jump, therefore that somehow proves there was no one using the controller?

There's no known mechanism?

Ok. You're just reiterating the limits of materialism at this point. I'm aware materialism is limited to the material.

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OfflineOrokusaki
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Re: Forced birth [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #27908095 - 08/18/22 12:03 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
There is a difference between killing something and murder.




What's the difference?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Orokusaki] * 1
    #27908135 - 08/18/22 12:32 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

When you run over a hitchhiker accidentally with your truck, that’s killing someone. Picking up the hitchhiker and strangling her with your shoelace and dumping her in a state park, that’s murder.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
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InvisibleBandwagon
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods]
    #27908137 - 08/18/22 12:34 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Orokusaki said:
What's the difference?





Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.

Edited by Bandwagon (08/18/22 12:35 PM)

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: koods] * 1
    #27908158 - 08/18/22 12:49 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bandwagon said:
Quote:

Orokusaki said:
What's the difference?





Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.




Abortion is intentional, but it is not murder. Killing in war is not considered murder, even by Biblical standards.

Quote:

koods said:
There’s no evidence. There’s not even a rational reason to think souls might be real. It’s magical thinking. There’s also plenty of reason to think there is no such thing as a soul. We know that consciousness is property of the physical brain - destroy the brain and you destroy the consciousness. Also there is no known mechanism for extracorporeal consciousness to have any coherence.




Extracorporeal consciousness will likely exist within our lifetime. It will arise from silica based neural networks, and will only serve to bolster your argument, honestly.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #27908162 - 08/18/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Quote:

koods said:
Wtf does that have to do with what I said




I'm just wondering if this new revelation about souls being nonexistent means that murder shouldbe legalized, too. Or if not, what do you think the basis of homicide laws are, if not religion?



Souls have always been nonexistent. That's not new. If souls were real, murder would be encouraged so as to free as many souls as possible. Since they're fictional, murder is discouraged.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bandwagon]
    #27908167 - 08/18/22 12:57 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bandwagon said:
Quote:

Orokusaki said:
What's the difference?





Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.




All you have differentiated is first degree murder from second degree.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Brian Jones]
    #27908185 - 08/18/22 01:09 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Bandwagon said:
Quote:

Orokusaki said:
What's the difference?





Intent is the difference. The act of murder is premeditated. Killing is a general term for an act that results in loss of life.




All you have differentiated is first degree murder from second degree.




Isn't the difference that first degree is premeditated, and second degree is spur of the moment? I think they both require intent, otherwise it's manslaughter..


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27908190 - 08/18/22 01:14 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Intent and premeditation aren't the same. Manslaughter can also have intent,  btw.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908194 - 08/18/22 01:16 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Intent and premeditation aren't the same. Manslaughter can also have intent,  btw.




Well, what is the difference between manslaughter and murder, then?


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #27908199 - 08/18/22 01:18 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Voluntary manslaughter is in the heat of passion. Involuntary manslaughter is grossly negligent. Murder is with malice aforethought. First degree murder is with premeditation. Felony murder requires no intent to kill.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908228 - 08/18/22 01:42 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Voluntary manslaughter is in the heat of passion. Involuntary manslaughter is grossly negligent. Murder is with malice aforethought. First degree murder is with premeditation. Felony murder requires no intent to kill.




I have a friend who did 5 years in prison for accidently killing another friend. They were boxing, and he punched the guy, and he was knocked down, hit his head on a tree stump and died.

I think that was manslaughter. There was intent to do harm, but that's the nature of the game.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #27908234 - 08/18/22 01:45 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Boxing isn't Intent to harm. He got involuntary manslaughter.


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Enlil]
    #27908258 - 08/18/22 01:56 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Can we agree that the basis of these laws is to keep the peace?

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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford] * 2
    #27908266 - 08/18/22 02:00 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

That's an oversimplification, but yes... that's part of it.

This is why abortion should be legal and maybe mandatory. Dead babies do not disturb the peace by crying all the time.


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OfflineBigbadwooof
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Re: Forced birth [Re: Hartford]
    #27908280 - 08/18/22 02:06 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Hartford said:
Can we agree that the basis of these laws is to keep the peace?




The laws are meant to prevent murder. Murder can potentially be very peaceful, even if it does require malice. For instance, if you give someone a big fat shot of fentanyl and it kills them, peacefully.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell
Every one of you should see this video.
"Facts are chiels that winna ding, and downa be disputed" - Robert Burns

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