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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Flow hood help
    #27835366 - 06/25/22 08:40 AM (7 months, 2 days ago)

I'm currently about to make a purchase and if anyone with experience would like to chime in I would appreciate the feedback before I drop some doe. I'll try n keep it short sweet and informative.

Is anyone familiar with Glasfloss Magna Series HEPA 1100 series? I'm about to purchase an 18x24x5 7/8's filter. I have some graphs that look like the initial w.g. is .79 and I figure I'll add .1-.2 resistance for my prefilter which would land me at a w.g.of .9-1.0 to match up to a blower.

The filter part number would be 2418A5 on this pdf sheet which is actually 2418A6 but it both falls under the same line on this chart since it says in small letters underneath to replace the 5 with a 6 for the 1100 series. I've been studying this stuff for a few weeks and don't want anyone to just do the work for me but I'm not familiar with some of the abreviations at the top as far as Std, hc or shc and getting kind of burnt out on this.





I do know the surface area which is obviously simple at 3sq ft which would be a 300 cfm blower at 1. w.g with a prefilter to meet spec.

I do have some other concerns because I see some people buying blowers in other threads that are way over spec as far as power goes.

Some say that the filters may clog over time and to put a throttle on a more powerful blower to basically increase power as needed but I plan to use a prefilter and change that as needed instead. I'd rather just use the prefilter and change it until the HEPA needs replaced and then shell out the coin when
the time comes instead of worrying about burning out my blower with a throttle.

The blower I'm picking is pretty common. It's a Dayton 1TDT8. Here is the graph.



If necessary I may step it down to the 12x24x5 7/8's 1100 series filter instead.
Any input or help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance 👍

If I gotta step it down to 12x24 that's fine. I'd prefer the 18x24but I just really need to know what would be best and what would be a solid build. If not that's fine. Anyone who knows just lmk and I'll get back to the drawing board if it's not a good fit.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (06/25/22 08:51 AM)


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson] * 1
    #27835589 - 06/25/22 03:27 PM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Standard capacity, high capacity and probably super high capacity is what SC-HC-SHC mean. Capacity means how much airflow they are designed to operate at, higher capacity are designed for more flow higher speeds.

You will notice that the 1100 SC are displayed at 175 fpm and you will also notice that the pressure is relative to the speed if you look at the graph here

175:0.79 = 90:X, a little ratio calculation to determine the pressure at 90 fpm desired speed and you get 0.4" sp at 90 fpm. So you only need a fan that blows about 225 CFM @ 0.6" sp (~225 cfm makes 90 fpm out of a 18x24 when you calculate the frame size away, 0.4+0.2 prefilter makes 0.6)

hope that helps


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: sandman420]
    #27836274 - 06/26/22 12:52 AM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Makes some sense. Thanks alot.

So basically I'm aiming for 100fpm? The lower flow being 100fpm obviously reduces sp/w.g. accordingly. So you just used a simple ratio and divided and rounded it up to get closer to the 100fpm we need. Going off of the specs they are giving which is 175 @.79 w.g. like ur saying.

Also you even reduced the box size from the filter for me to get closer to the actual CFM required?

Now I see why some people add a variable speed control because it's kind of hard to find a blower to get to the exact spec.

Is it really bad to add a variable speed control and couldn't one dial it in with a thicker prefilter to gain the resistance required to hit the right cfm and just use an anemometer to get to the required fpm?

1TDT7 is closer then the 1TDT8 but still overkill and the 1TDT6 wouldn't be enough power. I definitely wasn't aware of reducing the rated fpm also reduces the w.g. til now.



Even the 1TDT7 which is this graph above is 330 cfm at .6 w.g. and that's on it's low setting. Even doubling the w.g. to .8 if I could do that somehow would be 280 cfm.

Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated. Til then I'm gonna try and match a blower to this filter. Because it seems to be a pretty decent filter as far as particle size and filtration just not much resistance to it which I suppose is good because then you don't need as powerful of a blower but yea any suggestions from experience on how to dial something like this in would be greatly appreciated.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (06/26/22 06:56 AM)


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Invisiblesandman420
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson] * 1
    #27836347 - 06/26/22 01:36 AM (7 months, 1 day ago)

90 is the target, 100 is often called out in amateur builds but 90+/-10 is the real goal for a clean bench

Could do that 1tdt7 on low wiring it is 265 cfm at 0.8" so just stack another prefilter to get you there. Then you can take 1 off and run 1 prefilter when the filter gets some build up and gains some resistance over time.

recommend this anemometer only https://www.amazon.com/Dwyer-Vaneometer-Swing-Anemometer-25-400/dp/B009PARXXI


--------------------
- Sandbag Tek - How To Sterilize Spawn Bags - All About Static Pressure / Pressure Drop for DIY Flow Hoods - Sandman's LC Tek-

Marijuanaut escapes earth to cultivate - Grow-room is church temple of the new stoner breed


Edited by sandman420 (06/26/22 01:38 AM)


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OfflineHILLBILLY OUTLAWS
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: sandman420]
    #27836382 - 06/26/22 01:56 AM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Great informative sandman! I’m bookmarking this for future reference.

:dancer:


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: sandman420]
    #27836566 - 06/26/22 03:56 AM (7 months, 1 day ago)

Awesome and thanks alot for the help sandman. The least I could do was give you a positive general rating. I really appreciate you taking time to point me in the right direction. It can be challenging trying to learn something new then source, price and gather all the info for this stuff. :peace:


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #27837956 - 06/27/22 04:39 AM (7 months, 5 hours ago)

Well I ordered the 24x18x5 7/8's filter. It's about a 20 to 25 day wait before they ship it.

I'm still kind of looking at blowers. Any thoughts on inline duct fans or are they sub par as far as quality goes? I was just reading and seeing threads where some have used them with success supposedly.

I only ask because many of them have variable speed contol.

I figure I'd only have to make sure it can exceed handling the static pressure at the required cfm since the speed can be adjusted. I'm still leaning towards the 1TDT7 but just want to see if this is an option because the variable speed control is appealing.

Not trying to save money or anything like that I just want to ensure that I can mantain laminar flow and if buying a quality inline duct fan costs the same or more that's fine when in all reality I here they are cheaper for the most part. 2¢?


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InvisibleBlueIndian
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #27838089 - 06/27/22 06:06 AM (7 months, 4 hours ago)

Here’s my opinion and it has no proven facts but I have tried different filters and blowers and finally just built one that works. Long story but 1st one just didn’t have enough flow and filter box got tossed eventually but I had $200 invested in the d8 blower so kept that.

Then…found a camfil 22x42” something like that for a great price. A lot thinner than the previous koch filter so I built a box “hoping” it would work…nope!

So…I got out the sawzall and cut that filter in half!  Say what!? Sure did…capped off the cut end and sealed it and built a box around it. So a little under 2x2 size and the d8 is a little much so I do have a speed controller on it. No pre filter yet but will add one. So the d8 is the tight blower for something like a 2x2 and I think could be ok for a 18x24.

As far as blowers. I think the regular squirrel cage is the way to go mounted on top. My opinion is those blowers are built to handle back pressure. It’s the type blower in your furnace unit. The axial blowers are more for exhaust in my opinion. Duct boosters etc. And I don’t trust the specs of the majority of axial fans.

I have seen posts here about ppl buying the ffu boxes lately and saying the flow is uneven. I think it’s because the fan is causing turbulent flow. You are wanting to pressurize a plenum not just blow are through a filter.

I built a 2x2 once with an 8” axial on top as well…same problem…uneven flow…

And about anometers…I bought a cheap one too..can’t say as I really trust it. What do you expect for $20? Think a lighter works just as good lol.

Good luck buddy…that’s just my thoughts and input.


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InvisibleBlueIndian
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: BlueIndian]
    #27838091 - 06/27/22 06:08 AM (7 months, 4 hours ago)

When I say axial fan I am referring to inline fans…I just don’t think they are designed for even flow or the bac pressure


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InvisibleBlueIndian
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: BlueIndian]
    #27838095 - 06/27/22 06:12 AM (7 months, 4 hours ago)

Just get the dt8 you’ll be good to go


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: BlueIndian]
    #27838146 - 06/27/22 06:50 AM (7 months, 3 hours ago)

First of all thanks for the input.

I do agree with you about inline fans and their actually purpose being used as an exhaust and not for pushing air especially in a flow hood build. That's why I had to ask
though because I do like the idea of having a variable speed control but not to sacrifice laminar flow do to it bogging down or having issues maintaining static pressure and not being able to keep it pressurized properly. I just saw it and had to ask. Maybe it's just people being cheap trying to make their build which I don't mind paying a little more to ensure quality as long as I can achieve laminar flow.

I do understand that I'm trying to pressurize the box and not just blow air through a filter that's why I'm trying to match everything up accordingly but the 1tdt8 looks like it would be overkill since my filter has such little resistance .4 w.g. roughly at 90fpm + or - 10 since it says in the chart above they tested it at 175fpm and it has .79 w.g. at that flow rate. I read you can achieve laminar flow at 70 up to 100 but 70 is not desirable lol.

I've also read that it was bad to wire a variable speed control to these types of blowers. I mean it even says in the specs it's not recommended which I'd like to avoid possibly burning it out if that's the case but since you did it I have to ask is it working well for you and do you see any issues arising from wiring one onto it?

As for the anemometer I was gonna buy something of quality since it's something I'm going to use throughout the life of the flow hood but I do understand how to use the flame to make sure it's bending 90° and staying smooth and steady. Honestly I'd probably do both to verify it's working properly.

I'll prolly just buy the 1tdt7 since it looks closer to spec and appears to still be overkill but not as much.

Why suggest the 1tdt8? My filter only has like .4 w.g. at 90fpm roughly.

Thanks for the input and steering me back towards the proper fans lol. That's bad ass you hacked that bitch in half and made it work for you lol.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (06/27/22 07:07 AM)


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InvisibleBlueIndian
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #27838197 - 06/27/22 07:34 AM (7 months, 2 hours ago)

I hate math. So personally I would rather have too much fan that can be throttled than one that isn’t enough. As far as a controller messing up a Dayton I don’t know about that…a bit skeptical. The d8 has 3 wires where you will attach a plug. You can wire it for low or high speed. Mine is wired for high and the cfm’s are 700+…wired low it’s 550 something. Once you have attached a plug you can plug it straight into a speed controller you can get online for $20.

I didn’t know they made a d7. But if you have a d8 you can use that for a 2x2 later if you wanted too as well.

The filter I have is probably same width as yours maybe a little thinner. Remember it was a little under 2x4 to start with. The label states it was tested at 550 cfm @ .401 inches w.g. With efficiency at 99.99993. I cut in half so it is just under 2x2’. The d8 works fine with a controller. Also, laminar may be considered 90 fpm but 100 is better. Also over time the airflow will decrease so it helps to be able to boost the airflow later as the filter ages.

Again I hate math…all I know is what I found. If nothing else you get from me just avoid the inline fans imo.


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: BlueIndian]
    #27838231 - 06/27/22 08:10 AM (7 months, 2 hours ago)

Lol cool and thanks man. I'll prolly do the d7 since it's still overpowering as is because I can always switch the wires to high if I actually build up that much resistance.

It's rated 542/409 cfm so not as powerful as urs but should be good for what I'm running. I might check out that speed controller tho because it sounds simple. I did provide some graphs and a chart above for both models.

In my first post is the graph for ur d8 and a little down is the graph for the d7.

Is this the controller your talking about. I see a couple very similar to this also.




If it is from what I've read they arn't good for your motor long term.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (06/27/22 10:46 AM)


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #28072252 - 11/28/22 05:49 AM (2 months, 1 day ago)




I hate to even ask but I finally got around to building this thing. I've had everything needed to assemble it for about 3 months so I definitely procrastinated to say the least lol. Anyways I just want to make sure I wire this thing up right so I have to ask since I'm not completely certain on this. I'll only be hooking up one speed since I'm not installing a DPDT switch.

The colors on the power cable have black as hot, white as neutral and the green is ground. Pretty standard.

As far as the blower goes red is low speed, black is high speed and white says common






As far as I understand I'd want to connect the black high speed wire from the blower to the black(hot) wire on the power cable then the white common wire from the blower to the white neutral wire from the power cable.

Then cap off and secure the red low speed wire from the blower. So what do I do with the ground for the power cable.

And shouldn't there be a ground wire coming from the blower??? Or does connecting the ground from the power cable to a bolt on the blower suffice?

Second thought I may actually try to use a 6 pin dpdt. If so do you just connect the two commons in the middle then put the low speed wire on one side of the top pins and the high speed wire to the other top pin. Then just cross each one diagonally to the bottom pins. Then ground the power cord to a screw on the blower as stated above.

Where would the hot cable from the power cord go on the device? Does it get wired to the 1st rows bottom pin? Sorry for asking all this.  I'll continue researching til I get a strait answer but if anyone can help I'd greatly appreciate it.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (11/28/22 01:00 PM)


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson] * 1
    #28072812 - 11/28/22 08:16 PM (2 months, 13 hours ago)

So I figured it out. I actually bought what's called an SPDT and wired the commons strait together then grounded it to the blower like everyone else lol.

The switch is farely simple. Hot black from the power cord is to the center of the switch then the high speed black to one side and the low speed red to the other. Works like a charm.

















This is what I'm using as prefilters




Edited by Mr. Anderson (11/29/22 05:19 AM)


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OfflineHILLBILLY OUTLAWS
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #28073023 - 11/28/22 10:21 PM (2 months, 11 hours ago)

Looks good. I would mount the switch in a junction box to protect the terminals from accidentally being touched. Don’t wanna accidentally get in between the hot and neutral. That’ll hurt pretty good. If you don’t want to put it in a box wrap it with some electrical tape at least.


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OfflineDreamEasy1111
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: HILLBILLY OUTLAW]
    #28073038 - 11/28/22 10:32 PM (2 months, 10 hours ago)

just be sure to replace the pre-filter once a month to maintain the integrity of the hepa filter!


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: DreamEasy1111]
    #28073112 - 11/28/22 11:09 PM (2 months, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

HILLBILLY OUTLAW said:
Looks good. I would mount the switch in a junction box to protect the terminals from accidentally being touched. Don’t wanna accidentally get in between the hot and neutral. That’ll hurt pretty good. If you don’t want to put it in a box wrap it with some electrical tape at least.




Most definitely. I was gonna use silicone to insulate the terminals and just mount it to the back of the box by the blower. I'm gonna look into the junction box now tho. May go that route possibly.

Quote:

DreamEasy1111 said:
just be sure to replace the pre-filter once a month to maintain the integrity of the hepa filter!





Thanks will do for sure. I bought a pack of 9 so I should be good for awhile 👍


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (11/30/22 06:42 AM)


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InvisibleMr. Anderson
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #28073233 - 11/29/22 12:30 AM (2 months, 9 hours ago)

Would it be ok to set it up and use it in the garage since it'd be much easier for me. Garage is draft free and heated.

It's over half the size of my tiny house. Just trying to play with the hand I've been dealt.

The garage is a dog free zone so that's a plus there at least.

I could cover the hood with plastic sheet in between use just for extra precaution. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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Edited by Mr. Anderson (11/29/22 05:16 AM)


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OfflineDreamEasy1111
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Re: Flow hood help [Re: Mr. Anderson]
    #28074700 - 11/30/22 12:26 AM (1 month, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Mr. Anderson said:
Would it be ok to set it up and use it in the garage since it'd be much easier for me. Garage is draft free and heated.

It's over half the size of my tiny house. Just trying to play with the hand I've been dealt.

The garage is a dog free zone so that's a plus there at least.

I could cover the hood with plastic sheet in between use just for extra precaution. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.




I would say do whatever is best for your situation. If you cover it up between uses and when you open the garage i would say you would probably be okay. But test it out and if you find you are having a high contamination rate then i would consider a better place for it.


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im new go easy on me! love to learn and ill ask a lot of questions!


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