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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

4
#27830174 - 06/21/22 10:55 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

I wanted to share this video on Adi Shankara's Atma Bodha , I don't know if anyone will care to watch or view so sharing regardless :awesomenod:

:awesomenod:

The metaphors are just amazing IMO
They make so much sense :P

This work has really helped me out on the day to day basis to remain calm and collected and to see things for what they are and I want to share incase it clicks for anybody else :shrug:

:shrug:

It's a little over a hour or so long :shrug:

:shrug:

I watched it in 2 or 3 parts each morning before work :namaste:

:namaste:

If anyone else would like to share any Adi Shankara work please do as I am looking to move onto more of the works he accomplished

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

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Liberte

Registered: 08/04/21
Posts: 41
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]

1
#27831701 - 06/22/22 12:47 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Thanks for sharing, I like the below version too

Here's a recording of Dakshinamurti Stotram chanted at Ramana Maharshi's ashram

I'd recommend checking out the other works of Shankara which were translated by Ramana, they can all be found in Collected Works.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: Liberte]

1
#27863834 - 07/15/22 03:05 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Thank you for sharing :smile:

:smile:

I was just reading some Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy page on Shankara , quoting one thing that made so much sense to me :wink:

:wink:

Witnessing consciousness is elusive because it is unobjectifiable. It escapes our attention because it stands behind cognitive intentionality and cannot attend to itself. One cannot isolate the witness by pulling it to one side and objects to another, for in drawing a line between the two, both become objects of consciousness. Consciousness cannot become an objective content of consciousness. If one infers that this non-finding of consciousness is evidence of its non-existence, Śaṅkara counters that one cannot deny their own consciousness (BrSūBh 2.3.7). Consciousness is self-evident. It cannot admit its own absence or antecedent negation, for any dismissal of consciousness presupposes its very existence. Consciousness thus falls outside the scope of negation.

Śaṅkara defines the intrinsic nature of consciousness as uniquely self-illuminating (svaprakāśa) because it does not require a second awareness for it to be known. Consciousness is intrinsically reflexive, immediate, and self-revealing in all cognition, while simultaneously remaining the non-object of knowledge. It is self-established in that it does not require a means of knowledge to be known, nor any proof or justification for its existence. It is self-disclosing. No second thing mediates its access to itself (see Śaṅkara on BṛUBh 4.3, TaiUBh 2.1.1)

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
Last seen: 5 minutes

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]

1
#27895538 - 08/09/22 08:35 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I came across a text version here as well. https://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/texts/shankara/knowledgeofself.asp#fn_152

At first I scanned it looking for a specific thing, then a I read a few things slowly, then I read the whole thing slowly.

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
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Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27895569 - 08/09/22 09:02 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

As we were talking about elements, mosquitoes, objectification, I suppose all these threads are the same thread. I like this tied in with the three bodies.

The place for experiencing happiness
and misery, which is made up of the
fivefold compounds of the great elements
and is obtained as the result of past actions,
is called the (dense) body.

The instrument of enjoyment, which is
made up of the uncompounded elements
and which consists of the five life-forces,
the mind, the consciousness, and the
ten senses *, is the subtle body.

The beginningless illusion that is
indefinable is called the causal body.
One should understand the self as other
than these three bodies (or conditions).

The pure self, by the relation of the five sheaths, etc.,
appears to assume their respective natures,
like a crystal reflecting a blue cloth, etc.

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27895574 - 08/09/22 09:05 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

"The beginningless illusion that is indefinable is called the causal body."

I had some consideration to clarify this to myself. I'm trying to jog my memory.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27895692 - 08/09/22 10:34 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I really really enjoy the cloth metaphor makes me wanna get a crystal ball for my altar

We super impose our emotions perceptions and thoughts onto our consciousness
Though consciousness remains utterly the same

If you were to hold the crystal ball up to a blue cloth the crystal ball will appear blue, yet it actually remains utterly clear and the blue is a super imposition

(Color of cloth representing emotions, perceptions, thoughts, while the crystal ball is consciousness)

I did order a copy of Shankara's vivekachudamani, crown jewel of discrimination, cannot wait to start reading it :smile:

:smile:

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
Last seen: 5 minutes

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27896255 - 08/09/22 06:24 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I found it on pdf and am reading.
https://estudantedavedanta.net/VivekaChudamani-of-Sri-Shankaracharya.pdf

Excellent suggestion. It starts off with some sexism like others of these old translations I've seen, the male body being superiorly suited for liberation... but onward it's gold.

Edited by syncro (08/09/22 06:24 PM)

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27896284 - 08/09/22 06:36 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

I'm at the qualities now. It's gone through the elements and aspects of buddhi, mind, and the pranas.

119, The traits of pure Sattva are
cheerfulness, the realisation of one's own
Self, supreme peace, contentment, bliss,
and steady devotion for the Atman, by
which the aspirant enjoys bliss everlasting-...

114, Even wise and. learned men and
men who are clever and adepts in the
vision of the exceedingly subtle Atman, are
overpowered by Tamas and do not under-
stand the Atman even though clearly
explained in various Ways. What is simply
superimposed by delusion, they consider
as true, and attach themselves to its
effects. Alas! How powerful is the great
Avriti Shakti of dreadful Tamas!

Tamas is the lower of the three qualities, darkness, ignorance. Avriti is the veiling power.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27896811 - 08/10/22 02:57 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
I found it on pdf and am reading.
https://estudantedavedanta.net/VivekaChudamani-of-Sri-Shankaracharya.pdf

Excellent suggestion. It starts off with some sexism like others of these old translations I've seen, the male body being superiorly suited for liberation... but onward it's gold.

:facepalm:

:confused:

Why is that a common theme within religions, if caste, color and status are all superimposed onto atma then gender would fall into those categories I would think.... that aside , awesome you found a pdf! I checked out alittle bit of it , wonder if the one I purchased is the same translation/commentary etc.

Interesting , gonna have to do more reading on the gunas, and 3 bodies

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
Last seen: 5 minutes

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27896902 - 08/10/22 06:01 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

181. Therefore the seeker after Libera-
tion must carefully purify the mind. When
this is purified, Liberation is as easy of
access as a fruit on the palm of one's hand.

Edited by syncro (08/10/22 06:26 AM)

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27896917 - 08/10/22 06:25 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Yeah, it would seem individual characteristics outweigh apparent advantages and disadvantages with gender. Perhaps the males' physical strength was considered generally more suited to solitary contemplative life, especially in unsettled areas.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27897040 - 08/10/22 08:19 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
181. Therefore the seeker after Libera-
tion must carefully purify the mind. When
this is purified, Liberation is as easy of
access as a fruit on the palm of one's hand.

Statements like this make me feel like nirvana/moksha is a mind state :strokebeard:

:strokebeard:

one can attain and keep in that state with the right methodology/focus/mind/intellect

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
Last seen: 5 minutes

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27897555 - 08/10/22 03:15 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

The addressing of the causal body and the five sheaths seems unique. It's a bit confusing. The causal body seen as the "undifferentiated" compound of the three qualities, distinquished from the bliss sheath.

207. The Blissful Sheath (Anandamaya)
is that modification of Nescience which
manifests itself catching a reflection of the
Atman which is Bliss absolute; whose
attiibutes are pleasure and the rest ; which
appears in view when some object agree-
able to oneself presents itself. It makes
itself spontaneously felt to the fortunate
during the fruition of their virtuous deeds
from which every corporeal being derives
great joy without the least effort.

208. The Blissful Sheath has its fullest
play during profound sleep, while in the
dreaming and wakeful states it has only a
partial manifestation, occasioned by the
sight of agreeable objects and so forth.

Yet the causal body is also described as like profound sleep, yet modified rendering mind, pranas and so forth, both and all modifications of Prakriti superimposed on the Atman.

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syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]

1
#27898396 - 08/11/22 06:13 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

There is strong emphasis again that once modification is removed, there only pure witness which cannot be perceived. But I'm going through a thing where I'm tending to disagree, I know I may be wrong, perceiving some reflection, but tending to beyond the notion of objectification. The reason I repeat it is because for me it is an aspect of supreme enjoyment.

I wrote this earlier on it. - There is that, a concern in the idea of not catching consciousness in its pure form, as identification is objectification. Then there is the nonconcern except perhaps to that of enjoyment in contentment, where the quality of that objectified is retained either as source, or seen as a reflection enough to enjoy as nondifferent, an image not so important as that shared in what, extrasense, intuition(?), which could be termed as unity. -

I suppose it is like saying the sun is not different from its rays. It can extend outward so that it is "seen". Objectification as an idea must be cleaned, but it is only an idea.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]

1
#27898545 - 08/11/22 08:40 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
There is strong emphasis again that once modification is removed, there only pure witness which cannot be perceived. But I'm going through a thing where I'm tending to disagree, I know I may be wrong, perceiving some reflection, but tending to beyond the notion of objectification. The reason I repeat it is because for me it is an aspect of supreme enjoyment.

I wrote this earlier on it. - There is that, a concern in the idea of not catching consciousness in its pure form, as identification is objectification. Then there is the nonconcern except perhaps to that of enjoyment in contentment, where the quality of that objectified is retained either as source, or seen as a reflection enough to enjoy as nondifferent, an image not so important as that shared in what, extrasense, intuition(?), which could be termed as unity. -

I suppose it is like saying the sun is not different from its rays. It can extend outward so that it is "seen". Objectification as an idea must be cleaned, but it is only an idea.

Is this on the topic of the objectification of consciousness?
Always slipping through the cracks of the mind

I can't help but be reminded of Alan watts and how he always would say " The knife doesn't cut itself" or " Light doesn't illuminate itself"

Ima share a verse I like :shrug:

:shrug:

"Two birds sitting in the tree (the body). One bird, the jiva is enjoying the fruits of the tree and the other the Paramatma is watching the jiva." Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad (4.7)[5]

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

syncro

Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 2,961
Last seen: 5 minutes

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27898618 - 08/11/22 09:17 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

So the jiva is defined by the enjoyment of fruits, and looking back to Paramatma, it is no longer jiva?

Perhaps the verse supports what I'm saying in a way. I don't know, but how is it known that Brahman shines? It would be objectification of a sort.

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connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: syncro]
#27898649 - 08/11/22 09:34 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

You know in all my studying of this advaita vedanta I've noticed Seemingly contradictory teachings

For instance, the neti neti (neither this or that )mantra, to arrive and understand what Brahman is, first you must understand what it isn't Any concept or idea you could imagine is not what Brahman is

How does one describe the indescribable

I really like to use the clay metaphor
By knowing a lump of clay all things made of clay are known

Name and form aside weather jewelry statue or a pot The underlying reality for which the pot statue or jewelry can exist is the clay

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27898654 - 08/11/22 09:37 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/shankara/#AppeUniv

Going to share this link

It's an extremely good read and digs deep into the metaphysics

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

Extras:

connectedcosmos
Neti Neti

Registered: 02/07/15
Posts: 7,545
Loc: The Pathless Path

Re: Sri Adi Shankara's Atma-Bodha (Self-Knowledge)

[Re: connectedcosmos]
#27898710 - 08/11/22 10:21 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

syncro said:
So the jiva is defined by the enjoyment of fruits, and looking back to Paramatma, it is no longer jiva?

Perhaps the verse supports what I'm saying in a way. I don't know, but how is it known that Brahman shines? It would be objectification of a sort.

Now I don't know if I am right, the way I interpret it is maybe , the jiva is the ego, or the one who facilitates using the senses perceptions and thoughts to be able to have thee enjoyment of fruit, and the Paramatma is thee one to reveal the whole thing that is happening as a silent observer who's only function is to be

Man now my head is hurting
Ill now quote the classic was it socrates? "I know that I know nothing"

--------------------

54. The true nature of things is to be known personally , through the eyes of clear illumination and not through a sage : what the moon exactly is , is to be known with one's own eyes ; can another make him know it?

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