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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: koods]
#27833189 - 06/23/22 03:36 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Pretty perfect situation for damn near all companies, actually. Especially with the amount of market share nowadays. Pretty much 90% of the goods any given person consumes in the US is provided by like, 3-4 companies. They control the market, they dictate prices, and they're all making record profits.
And Biden gets blamed, because the GOP unanimously voted down making price gouging illegal.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: Kryptos]
#27833201 - 06/23/22 03:45 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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The irony is that one of the reasons why there is a mismatch between supply and demand is that the economy has recovered from covid much faster than expected and demand is already past prepandemic level while supply has been slow to ramp back up
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,252
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: Kryptos]
#27833220 - 06/23/22 04:05 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
See, the problem with spending money on infrastructure is that more production would cause gas prices to go down, which lowers the profit margins that the oil companies are currently earning. So why would they ever ramp up production? Especially when you're blaming Biden for it instead of them!
Oil prices went up thanks primarily to his sanctions on Russia, and the fact that Biden nixed Keystone XL, along with a few other things: https://clashdaily.com/2021/08/biden-has-shut-down-u-s-oil-production-for-six-months-now-hes-asking-opec-to-pump-more/
Quote:
It began immediately after his inauguration when, with a stroke of a pen, he nixed completion of the Keystone XL pipeline via Executive Order. He did this to “protect public health and the environment” and restore “science” in order to “tackle the Climate Crisis.” Ironically, the Keystone XL would have been the world’s first zero-emission energy pipeline.
Womp, womp.
But that’s not all that Biden has done to undermine America’s energy independence.
In the same Executive Order on Day 1, Biden placed a “temporary” ban on drilling in ANWR which would have increased the use of the Alaskan pipeline.
He also halted energy development on federal land and shut down the 80 million-acre oil lease sale putting the Louisiana oil and gas industry in danger.
The result has been skyrocketing gas prices.
The first thing that will happen when Trump re-takes office is that gas prices will start plummeting.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: chopstick]
#27833257 - 06/23/22 04:30 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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The keystone pipeline has nothing to do with current prices. The project wouldn’t have been finished for years to come and it pumps CANADIAN oil to texas for export. God damn, son. How fucking ignorant are you?
If anything canceling Keystone is a benefit to American producers because keystone would have lowered the costs for Canadian producers while doing nothing to benefit American producers
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/23/22 04:40 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: koods]
#27833262 - 06/23/22 04:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
The first thing that will happen when Trump re-takes office is that gas prices will start plummeting.
Right. Due to another Trump recession
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,252
Loc: Chin's Wok
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: koods] 1
#27833273 - 06/23/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The keystone pipeline has nothing to do with current prices. The project wouldn’t have been finished for years to come and it pumps CANADIAN oil to texas for export. God damn, son. How fucking ignorant are you?
That wasn't the only thing he did. And at any rate, eliminating Keystone XL caused thousands of potential jobs to be eliminated. This still has a negative effect on the economy. Why are you always so irrationally angry?
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
The first thing that will happen when Trump re-takes office is that gas prices will start plummeting.
Right. Due to another Trump recession
sure man..
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: chopstick]
#27833281 - 06/23/22 04:48 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
That wasn't the only thing he did. And at any rate, eliminating Keystone XL caused thousands of potential jobs to be eliminated. This still has a negative effect on the economy.
Those workers are now available to work existing oil fields and boost supply
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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DoneKildatReason
Chemical in the body



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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: koods] 1
#27833571 - 06/23/22 07:53 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
That wasn't the only thing he did.
True. Here are a few others

-------------------- This was an experiment.
Edited by DoneKildatReason (06/23/22 07:56 PM)
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
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Thousands of jobs are like a drop in the bucket. Also, 3 of the 4 phases of Keystone XL were completed, I am sure Chop doesn't know that. The only phase that wasn't finished was phase 4.
Also, the fourth phase only delivers Canadian crude. Oh boy, that sweet, sweet, foreign crude. And on top of that the 4th phase just bypasses an already existing pipeline, so that crude is still getting delivered.
Lots of confusion around this one.
Of course the price of gasoline is hardly something a president can control, since you know, capitalism, private industry, all that shit.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Lynnch
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Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 8,010
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: christopera]
#27833696 - 06/23/22 09:14 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I feel like I shared this recently, but here goes again. The U.S. has five years of proven oil reserves left at current consumption. 5. not 500, not 50, -5- Maybe we can start up some *expensive* shale oil extraction, but the truth of the matter is, oil is a finite resource. The party is over. If you really care about being energy independent, then you should support the switch to green energy.
Also, 'zero-emission pipeline' ...that transports... oil... which then gets.. burnt..... lmfao
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Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: chopstick]
#27833754 - 06/23/22 10:03 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said:
Quote:
Kryptos said:
See, the problem with spending money on infrastructure is that more production would cause gas prices to go down, which lowers the profit margins that the oil companies are currently earning. So why would they ever ramp up production? Especially when you're blaming Biden for it instead of them!
Oil prices went up thanks primarily to his sanctions on Russia, and the fact that Biden nixed Keystone XL, along with a few other things: https://clashdaily.com/2021/08/biden-has-shut-down-u-s-oil-production-for-six-months-now-hes-asking-opec-to-pump-more/
Quote:
It began immediately after his inauguration when, with a stroke of a pen, he nixed completion of the Keystone XL pipeline via Executive Order. He did this to “protect public health and the environment” and restore “science” in order to “tackle the Climate Crisis.” Ironically, the Keystone XL would have been the world’s first zero-emission energy pipeline.
Womp, womp.
But that’s not all that Biden has done to undermine America’s energy independence.
In the same Executive Order on Day 1, Biden placed a “temporary” ban on drilling in ANWR which would have increased the use of the Alaskan pipeline.
He also halted energy development on federal land and shut down the 80 million-acre oil lease sale putting the Louisiana oil and gas industry in danger.
The result has been skyrocketing gas prices.
The first thing that will happen when Trump re-takes office is that gas prices will start plummeting.
Oil prices for WTI crude at the moment of this post, because that's what loaded first: 104$/barrel. Brent is 109$ Average US gas prices: $4.94
In 2012: Brent crude prices, $111 per barrel. Avg US gas price $3.60
Crack spread 2012, ~11$, that's the difference in price between a barrel of crude and a refined barrel of crude...basically, the refinery profit margin.
Crack spread right now: 52$.
Refineries are making 500% profits this year. Oil prices are about 100$/barrel, that's the low side of average. 80 is low, 150 is high. It has nothing to do with oil or oil supply.
But hey, if you're invested in Exxon, for example, your stock has almost doubled since January.
And it will continue to grow, because Haliburton owns basically all of the oil rigs. If you want to buy an oil rig to drill a well, you buy it from haliburton. And as I mentioned before, haliburton is no longer interested in selling new rigs. They don't want to drive down the price of oil.
If gas prices drop, gas prices will drop for exactly one reason: The wall street oil commodity traders figure out a way to make a profit by lowering the price of gas. Or a recession forces them to drop prices.
Edited by Kryptos (06/23/22 10:08 PM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: Kryptos]
#27833793 - 06/23/22 10:55 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Capitalism run amok
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: koods]
#27833901 - 06/24/22 01:45 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
At any rate, he is not interested in doing any of these things. High gas prices and inflation are both fully intended by his administration. They want you poor, broke and desperate to assist with "transitioning" to whatever larger agenda and societal changes they have planned down the road.
You sound like a crazy person
The Federal Reserve literally said last week that their goal is to drive up unemployment.
Over 50 years of systematically dismantling our paltry social safety net and now literally advocating for millions to lose their jobs as official public policy, not sure how you keep going with “they have our best interests in mind” but
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: chopstick] 1
#27833906 - 06/24/22 02:06 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
chopstick said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Chop, what policies, besides ceding Ukraine to Russian autonomy, should the Democrats pursue to rebuild the strength of the domestic and global economy?
As Falcon mentioned, it's not about ceding autonomy, it's about lifting the fruitless and destructive sanctions on Russia. The truth is that we relied on them for oil, fertilizer, and wheat - all very important basic resources for the survival of a nation. Now the prices of all these things have skyrocketed as we seek out more expensive suppliers. This puts the hurt on just about everybody. Farmers especially are facing such high costs that a lot of them are going out of business.
Biden needs to reverse his policies on the oil & gas sector and reapprove the Keystone XL pipeline. Actually take meaningful steps to reduce gas prices by ramping up domestic production. He needs to do something to address the ongoing diesel shortages. Instead he is talking about how it's an "incredible transition" to green energy, which makes no sense. The infrastructure is not in place for a full switch to renewable energy and most Americans don't have money to buy an electric vehicle anyway. Most of them get pissed off when it's even suggested as being a solution.
But more importantly, he needs to address inflation. This isn't really possible without the war in Ukraine ending or the gov't halting almost all spending. But instead of pushing for either of these they came close to making it significantly worse with the "build back better" bill. If that had passed, inflation would be even higher.
At any rate, he is not interested in doing any of these things. High gas prices and inflation are both fully intended by his administration. They want you poor, broke and desperate to assist with "transitioning" to whatever larger agenda and societal changes they have planned down the road. Funny they didn't ask Americans what they thought about being intentionally bankrupted for the agenda of the Democratic party.
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:You’re right I did ask chop, I’m trying to preempt the “everything in the world revolves around Biden’s position on Ukraine” argument that will inevitably take over this thread.
The world economy will never return to "normal" until the war is over. Of course it's the Europeans and other poor third world countries being hurt the most by it, but it still affects us significantly.
I understand you'd like to downplay it, but Biden's admin, along with the last Democrat admin, pushed for this war and they are responsible for the consequences. Luckily Americans are realizing this and the longer the economy goes downhill, the worse future elections will be for Democrats.
I will grant you that food and energy prices regarding Russia has sent a ripple effect across the globe, although inflation was an issue long before February of this year.
As far as Biden’s oil policy, what more do you want? He’s approved more drilling permits than trump, he’s opened up strategic reserves, he softened the official stance on Venezuela, he’s going to Saudi Arabia (reversing his campaign pledge of outing them as a pariah), he’s considering a gas tax holiday, he’s done nothing to advance a green agenda (to his own party’s electoral detriment). Not everything has to do with Russia dude, Biden is incredibly pro using oil. Not even going to address the keystone xl thing because it’s a meme at this point, no serious person is pointing to it as a way to alleviate inflation.
Now I have to address “halt basically all government spending” because lol. For someone who sees the affects that macro policy decisions can have on the global economy, this seems short sighted, and almost like you don’t really have an answer at all besides [boilerplate GOP talking point that they themselves don’t even believe or adhere to]. The rules of Keynesian economics that virtually every country plays by (including Russia) means that public spending is a necessary driver of economic activity, we can’t just not do that without causing a depression. But I guess a depression would drive down prices.
Yes, Biden and the Democrats have no serious plan to help the working class because that isn’t what they’re in power to do. But, and here’s where you veer off the path, the answer is not to be even more right wing.
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christopera
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: The Ecstatic] 1
#27833938 - 06/24/22 04:30 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Domestic production isn't what many think it is. We (US) simply do not have the oil reserves to replace the places we import crude from, even with more drilling we will never have the crude to be independent. And of course, nobody in the US oil industry would want to be independent, why would they be interested in selling oil at lower prices? That is, after all, what people think of when they think of being independent. So unless the US government seizes the means of manufacture, we won't see any meaningful advances towards lower prices that aren't dictated solely by the market itself.
We however have many refinery's, which is what we mean when we say "domestic production." We import foreign crude, we refine it. Even if we refine more crude that doesn't magically change the price of crude, in fact, it would probably raise the price at least for a while. And of course these prices aren't based on domestic consumption, so we'd have to produce like 30% of the worlds crude instantaneously to drop the price, and if we had that crude you can bet we would already be pumping it. Additionally, the US is already a net petroleum exporter, but that is because we are refining and selling petroleum products and selling them abroad. It has nothing to do with having too much oil.
The entire ramping up domestic production and reducing the price of gas argument is not based in reality. It's a talking point because it sells well to certain demographics and enriches politicians and a few companies, it has zero bearing on the population at large.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: Kryptos]
#27833945 - 06/24/22 04:50 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kryptos said:
Quote:
chopstick said:
Quote:
koods said: The US doesn’t rely on Russia for oil or wheat. The US can produce enough fossil fuels to satisfy our own demand.
we were only temporarily energy independent during Trump, that ended quickly after Biden took office
False, on both counts. We were not energy independent under Trump, and we are still currently energy independent under Biden.
Yes, energy independence is a very misleading claim, and can be defined many different ways. We produce more energy than we consume currently.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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The Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: The Democrat-led destruction of the economy [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#27834351 - 06/24/22 11:23 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Folks need to believe that the US can produce everything we need on our own, lest they accept the grim reality that their lifestyle is sustained by exploitation and subjugation abroad.
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