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InvisibleKeyMaker
Urban Wizard

Registered: 01/03/22
Posts: 518
Loc: in a van down by the river
Re: What's happening here [Re: LSDCubed]
    #28261814 - 04/04/23 10:33 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.


Edited by KeyMaker (04/04/23 10:34 AM)


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OfflineGrogu
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Registered: 07/02/22
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Re: What's happening here [Re: KeyMaker]
    #28261828 - 04/04/23 10:46 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

KeyMaker said:
What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.




When trying to stabilize a phenotype the F is how they record how many times they swabbed, then cloned, then swabbed cloned etc...

So for instance a F7 is suppose to be quite stable mushroom...

:stoned:


--------------------


Mushroom Cultivation Techniques...


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Offlineeugenemyco
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Re: What's happening here [Re: Grogu]
    #28261840 - 04/04/23 10:52 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

I took some CRS MS prints (collected from a previous MSS grow), cleaned them up on agar and grew them out in shoeboxes, but the resulting fruits just looked like plain ol' cubes without any distinctive CRS characteristics? This happened to another variety I took prints from too, so i'm wondering if it could have something to do with my technique at the time. Anyone know what might've caused this? Hoping it's not genetic degradation or something like that...


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InvisibleKeyMaker
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Registered: 01/03/22
Posts: 518
Loc: in a van down by the river
Re: What's happening here [Re: Grogu]
    #28261848 - 04/04/23 10:55 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Grogu said:
Quote:

KeyMaker said:
What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.




When trying to stabilize a phenotype the F is how they record how many times they swabbed, then cloned, then swabbed cloned etc...

So for instance a F7 is suppose to be quite stable mushroom...

:stoned:



Do you just put some swabs in a jar and PC for 20 min?  Can you wrap the swabs in foil to use later?


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OfflineScrewup
Googles your dumb questions
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Registered: 01/27/22
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Re: What's happening here [Re: eugenemyco]
    #28261851 - 04/04/23 10:57 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

It’s multispore which means you could get anything lurking in its generics.


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Help US help YOU TEK

2023 Dehydrator TEK


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Re: What's happening here [Re: KeyMaker] * 2
    #28261854 - 04/04/23 10:58 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

KeyMaker said:
What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.





Filial generation, f1 would be the original cross, f2 is spores from the cross, f3 spores from the resulting grow and so on..


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
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πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflineGrogu
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Re: What's happening here [Re: KeyMaker] * 2
    #28261898 - 04/04/23 11:36 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

KeyMaker said:
Quote:

Grogu said:
Quote:

KeyMaker said:
What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.




When trying to stabilize a phenotype the F is how they record how many times they swabbed, then cloned, then swabbed cloned etc...

So for instance a F7 is suppose to be quite stable mushroom...

:stoned:



Do you just put some swabs in a jar and PC for 20 min?  Can you wrap the swabs in foil to use later?




I buy the cool faht one's and just swab and put back in pakaging...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZVYGKMY

:pointmade:


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OfflineGrogu
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Re: What's happening here [Re: AyePlus]
    #28261899 - 04/04/23 11:38 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
Quote:

KeyMaker said:
What exactly do the "F#" numbers mean, in relation to culture on agar plates?  F4, F2, ect.





Filial generation, f1 would be the original cross, f2 is spores from the cross, f3 spores from the resulting grow and so on..




Hey, so the F is the spore marker even thought there is cloning inbetween swabs?

:starwars:


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Mushroom Cultivation Techniques...


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OfflineNFLProof
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Re: What's happening here [Re: Grogu]
    #28261917 - 04/04/23 11:55 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

I think they don't clone until it's stable enough? Spores until that point. I think.


--------------------
Yeah, yeah.


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InvisibleAyePlusS
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Registered: 12/18/14
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Re: What's happening here [Re: Grogu] * 2
    #28261924 - 04/04/23 11:58 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

If you clone an f3  and take spores its still spores from f3, cloning doesnt affect filial generation. Going that route will probably get you a stable variety faster, because there is a reduction of genetics when you clone  and your spores wont outcross as much with other fruits that have different genetics in same tote but not as much genetic reduction as when you β€œself” (50%) selfing is taking spores from one fruit and germinating it, ehich takes it further down the filial gen, unless its already a stable variety then no name to list the f gen

But the f gen labeling wouldn't be affected by cloning. If you backcrossed to parent genetics or outcrossed to a new variety you’d reset to f1 but your label would look like (gt/mm f3/b+)f1

At which point you might shorthand it to GMB#1 f1 or throw a name on the f3 for your own sake (but dont share it named unless you also include the parent genetics because this implies stability).


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflineFiet
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Registered: 01/29/23
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Last seen: 9 months, 18 days
Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Fiet]
    #28261925 - 04/04/23 11:58 AM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Hey guy's my first Unicorn Bag's has arrived i filled then with Dry Oats but i don't know how much is there to much in ore is it good?


These are 2x 10B Bag's and 2x4B Bag's




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OfflineGrogu
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Registered: 07/02/22
Posts: 1,712
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Re: What's happening here [Re: AyePlus]
    #28261934 - 04/04/23 12:05 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
If you clone an f3  and take spores its still spores from f3, cloning doesnt affect filial generation. Going that route will probably get you a stable variety faster, because there is a reduction of genetics when you clone  and your spores wont outcross as much with other fruits that have different genetics in same tote but not as much genetic reduction as when you β€œself” (50%) selfing is taking spores from one fruit and germinating it, ehich takes it further down the filial gen, unless its already a stable variety then no name to list the f gen

But the f gen labeling wouldn't be affected by cloning. If you backcrossed to parent genetics or outcrossed to a new variety you’d reset to f1 but your label would look like (gt/mm f3/b+)f1

At which point you might shorthand it to GMB#1 f1 or throw a name on the f3 for your own sake (but dont share it named unless you also include the parent genetics because this implies stability).




Thanks, I'm confused about the naming though, I'll keep track of variety I cloned pheno, but what is MM, I'm assuming GT is golden teacher and B+ is self evident...

Basically I'm not ghetto crossing yet, just have found a pheno of Hillbilly Pumpkin, but the F still applies to pheno's correct?

So am at the clone stage of a fruit that was grown from an isolated plate Hillbilly Pumpkin and when I take swabs that will be F2 or still F1?

:deathstar:


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InvisibleAyePlusS
Stony Danza
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Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
Loc: Fairfield, Connecticut
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Fiet] * 1
    #28261951 - 04/04/23 12:15 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

@grogu, you wouldnt use F gen labeling at all if youre not crossing. The hillbilly pumpkin is already a Named variety and youProbablyCan’t trace it all the way back to the original spores to know what F gen its actually on.

Isolating is a different practice that breeding, labeling them is a little different, check out the verum subsequentis thread : how not to find an isolate(it worked but..)






to continue filial gen talk:
f 1 has 100% heterozygosity (measurement of genetic variance) so following that math all the way out

F2 has 50%
f3 = 25
f4= 12.5
f5= 6.25
f6= 3.125,
f7 =1.5
And f8 has less than 1% heterozygosity, so its under 1/100 chance something morphologically (visually looking) different will show up barring outside mutagens,

(a good example being the uv light jk fibs had in his room when the TAT mutation occurred. Gt is notoriously inbred but the genetics got shuffled a bit by the UV and a new variety appeared which he then stabilized)




So that is why f8 is considered stable. At that point its highly unlikely to get results that dont look like the parent, so name it and share…


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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OfflineGrogu
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Posts: 1,712
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: AyePlus]
    #28261973 - 04/04/23 12:23 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
@grogu, you wouldnt use F gen labeling at all if youre not crossing. The hillbilly pumpkin is already a Named variety and youProbablyCan’t trace it all the way back to the original spores to know what F gen its actually on.

Isolating is a different practice that breeding, labeling them is a little different, check out the verum subsequentis thread : how not to find an isolate(it worked but..)






to continue filial gen talk:
f 1 has 100% heterozygosity (measurement of genetic variance) so following that math all the way out

F2 has 50%
f3 = 25
f4= 12.5
f5= 6.25
f6= 3.125,
f7 =1.5
And f8 has less than 1% heterozygosity, so its under 1/100 chance something morphologically (visually looking) different will show up barring outside mutagens,

(a good example being the uv light jk fibs had in his room when the TAT mutation occurred. Gt is notoriously inbred but the genetics got shuffled a bit by the UV and a new variety appeared which he then stabilized)




So that is why f8 is considered stable. At that point its highly unlikely to get results that dont look like the parent, so name it and share…




Cool, I don't have to worry about F then, I'll just keep on cloning if I see one's I like then eventually share my favorite spore from that fruit...

:leocheers:


--------------------


Mushroom Cultivation Techniques...


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OfflineFiet
Stranger
Registered: 01/29/23
Posts: 56
Last seen: 9 months, 18 days
Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: AyePlus]
    #28261980 - 04/04/23 12:26 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

AyePlus said:
@grogu, you wouldnt use F gen labeling at all if youre not crossing. The hillbilly pumpkin is already a Named variety and youProbablyCan’t trace it all the way back to the original spores to know what F gen its actually on.

Isolating is a different practice that breeding, labeling them is a little different, check out the verum subsequentis thread : how not to find an isolate(it worked but..)






to continue filial gen talk:
f 1 has 100% heterozygosity (measurement of genetic variance) so following that math all the way out

F2 has 50%
f3 = 25
f4= 12.5
f5= 6.25
f6= 3.125,
f7 =1.5
And f8 has less than 1% heterozygosity, so its under 1/100 chance something morphologically (visually looking) different will show up barring outside mutagens,

(a good example being the uv light jk fibs had in his room when the TAT mutation occurred. Gt is notoriously inbred but the genetics got shuffled a bit by the UV and a new variety appeared which he then stabilized)




So that is why f8 is considered stable. At that point its highly unlikely to get results that dont look like the parent, so name it and share…





Hey you quote me but not quote me :smile: no answer from the bags thx please response


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OfflineGrogu
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Fiet]
    #28261984 - 04/04/23 12:29 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Fiet said:

Hey you quote me but not quote me :smile: no answer from the bags thx please response




I think it AUTO does that...

Not sure your question, please elaborate...

:deathstar:


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Mushroom Cultivation Techniques...


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InvisibleKeyMaker
Urban Wizard

Registered: 01/03/22
Posts: 518
Loc: in a van down by the river
Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Grogu]
    #28262001 - 04/04/23 12:39 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Great info here.  Sounds like I have a lot to learn!  Grogu, I have the same Hillbilly Pumpkin fruiting in some ziplocks.


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Offlineherbstation
Child


Registered: 01/05/23
Posts: 217
Last seen: 1 day, 20 hours
Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: AyePlus]
    #28262003 - 04/04/23 12:39 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Are there any notable backcrossed cubes?

Who started breeding cubes/what were some of the OG crosses?

What are the oldest known records of people cultivating mushrooms?


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Expanding my mind until I can join the collective


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OfflineGrogu
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: KeyMaker]
    #28262010 - 04/04/23 12:44 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

KeyMaker said:
Great info here.  Sounds like I have a lot to learn!  Grogu, I have the same Hillbilly Pumpkin fruiting in some ziplocks.




Hi, hope I'm wording this correctly, but I choose a really big pretty pheno with no cap wrinkle's, thought it would be really cool...

I believe I may have given that HP isolate/clone to SPG, but I forget...lol

I am, however, doing my first bulk, of my clone so hopefully it works out...

:starwars:


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Mushroom Cultivation Techniques...


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InvisibleAyePlusS
Stony Danza
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Registered: 12/18/14
Posts: 3,393
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Fiet] * 1
    #28262026 - 04/04/23 12:53 PM (9 months, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Fiet said:
Hey you quote me but not quote me :smile: no answer from the bags thx please response




Quote:

Fiet said:
Hey guy's my first Unicorn Bag's has arrived i filled then with Dry Oats but i don't know how much is there to much in ore is it good?


These are 2x 10B Bag's and 2x4B Bag's







I never quoted you i just hit quick reply..

Buuut If you want my opinion, no prep sucks and oats suck. I dont use either because i dont like em..
And those bags are way too full. Even if it was prepped not dry.. so I’d recommend you do it completely different or ask someone else lol...


--------------------
Learn about breeding

C10’s agar guide
Good surface conditions = Good pinsets
Read more, post less.
πŸ…‚ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό πŸ„΄  πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό
πŸ…ƒ πŸ„΄ πŸ„° πŸ„Ό  πŸ„² πŸ„» πŸ„Έ πŸ„½ πŸ„Ά πŸ…† πŸ… πŸ„° πŸ„Ώ


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