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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms]
    #27834523 - 06/24/22 01:38 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CowsPoopShrooms said:
"Quick question,....Why is PF Tek a good choice/option for MSS inoculation?"

My understanding is that it is a good option. I can understand how the verm can act as a filter to prevent contams from entering through the holes in the lids. But MSS Inoc would be below the dry verm layer, so what am I missing? What am I not understanding?




First reason is that BRF cakes are very resistant to bacterial contamination which is common in MSS.

Second reason is that the verm top layer isn't to protect against contams in the MSS, it's to protect against contams in the air that comes into the jars through the holes in the lid - especially trich and mold spores that float around in your ambient air. If you were to get a bunch of mold spores in your MSS, PF Tek isn't going to save you.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms] * 1
    #27840845 - 06/28/22 03:38 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

CowsPoopShrooms said:
.
.
Quick Question: Ok, I'm hoping this is a quick Question/Answer, How do I tell if my agar plate(s) are finally "clean"? Is it by the growth/presence of a monoculture or what? Sorry, but I don't think I've found an actual explanation at a nOOb level. I'm on T3 and getting ready to do T4s. I have 1 that is very close, IMO, to a "monoculture". What am I looking for?




Some examples......

This is a T1 from multispore. There are obviously several sectors here.... several cultures growing on the same plate. To my eyes, this looks clean, but there is some risk there - perhaps the area growing around 9:00 is contaminated by some other fungus. Again, it's probably clean but some people (including myself if I've already tried growing a variety out and had contamination issues) might take more transfers until they don't see sectoring like this:



This is someone else's photo. I post this here to give an example of bacterial contamination. You can see it on the bottom. Note the sharp edges and yellowish color vs the fuzzy edges and whiter color of the mycelium above. Bacterial contamination is often round.



Bacterial contamination again. Notice the round spots with sharp edges:


Another bacterial, with some mycelium growth mixed in:


More bacteria:



You want to avoid anything of an odd color too... small black, brown, green, etc spots are contamination. I don't have any pics of that handy.

Like the first example, this is too uneven for me. I wouldn't send this:


Here are some examples of nice looking plates:




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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms] * 1
    #27840932 - 06/28/22 04:41 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

"Ok, so would those be "monocultures"? Or, just good clean even growth?"

When most people say "monoculture", they simply mean "even, consistent looking growth." A true monoculture is one dikaryotic connection between two spores. You can't take transfer after transfer and be positive that you only have ended up with one true monoculture there. But unless you are trying to grow crosses, it doesn't matter. You don't need a monoculture. You just transfer until you have nice, even, fast growth. Just remember that transferring is a double edged sword - you don't know if the culture you end up with is going to fruit, or fruit well. The time and energy you spend transferring could be wasted if what you end up with is a culture that never fruits or fruits poorly. This is why I usually err on the side slight contamination risk..... I would send plate #1 from my first post to grain, which is a T1. I rarely go beyond T1 unless I see really ugly looking growth like plate #6, which I would not send to grain. I want the widest genetics possible in hopes of stumbling on something good or unique and then cloning/printing it, understanding that I have a bit more risk of contamination (always fungal in my case since bacteria is so easy to spot).


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Smellyhobbit] * 2
    #27841986 - 06/29/22 08:12 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Until they dry out. How long it takes them to do that depends on many factors like the RH of your room, whether you left them without wrap vs used cling wrap vs used parafilm, etc, how thick you poured them, etc. The bottom line is that if they didn't dry out, you could leave them for a decade... doesn't matter. Cling wrap prevents drying better than parafilm, but even parafilm works for a long time. Cling wrap has the advantage of being much faster than parafilm in that you can stack 10-12 plates and then wrap them with a roll of cling wrap in one movement. When done like this, the plates will last many, many months.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms] * 2
    #27842329 - 06/29/22 12:52 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

1. I don't even get rid of the dust. Just load and soak. Yes that is all that is needed.
2. Psilocybe Fanaticus.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: san pedro guy] * 5
    #27845073 - 07/01/22 02:03 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

The mycelium isn't just growing on top of the agar. It's growing all through it, just like LC. You just can't see the growth inside or on the bottom because there is no air space. That's why as soon as you give it air space, it very quickly fuzzes up on all sides exposed to air.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms] * 2
    #27845090 - 07/01/22 02:19 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

If it grew only on the surface, then when you dumped a wedge into a grain jar, you would see the mycelium spread from one side of the wedge, around the sides of the wedge, and then moving to fully colonize the back of the wedge, It wold take 4-8 days or so for that to happen (for a good size wedge) because it would move at the normal rate that mycelium grows. Instead, when you put a wedge in a jar, within 24-48 hours every visible surface of the wedge has mycelium growing out from it, and it's an even fuzz - not a movement from the top-side.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Cob]
    #27852623 - 07/06/22 07:55 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Cob said:
Noob here with a question about building a FH. I'm new to this, I have ordered and accumulated some things to work with. I understand some trying to cultivate the easiest and cheapest way possible. But in my opinion after doing some research it appears that I would be ahead to jump straight to the more established techniques. I have the ability to build a FH and want to go ahead and get one built. I'll be following c10's flow hood build to build mine: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24201748

My question is about the material and paint used. I have the plywood necessary to build one, I also have OSB. I'm guessing the OSB is not a great idea considering how rough the surface texture is. Plywood seems a better choice, possibly sanded on the interior surfaces that will be exposed to the work area. Then when it comes to paint, I've read many use VOC free paint. If I go with plywood, would it be pertinent to prime the plywood with KILZ?

Another question regarding materials, is there a substitute for plywood that would be better? I was thinking gauge metal/sheet metal or similar? The only reason I ask is because I have access to both carbon and stainless steel and the ability weld/fabricate the same box. It will be a little bit of money vs using plywood I already have. But I can easily fabricate a steel cabinet for under $150 or less. I have multiple blower motors though I need to calculate the cfm they produce.

I'm basically just trying to figure out how I'm going to build this FH. I'm building it around a 24"x24"x6" 99.99% @ 3mic filter backed by a second "large particulate" filter to help protect my HEPA filter.

I'm also going to make a simple SAB and begin with making Agar before I even attempt to inoculate any cakes/jars. My goal is to be able make clean Agar plates before I even unwrap my first MS syringe. I have a good PC and most of the materials. Once I have verified clean myc on Agar I'll be starting out with PF cakes in 1/2 pint jars. My goal is to successfully grow PE, I just want to do it right. It only recently occured to me that I could grow my own "fruits". After doing the research I'm stoked, I just want to take my time getting started and minimize contams.




Many people have built with OSB and it worked ok. I built mine with nice sanded hardwood ply. I primed the inside with kilz. Stained the outside and then applied two coats of polyurethane. The idea is to prevent anything from growing on the wood (though even if it did, the filter should prevent it but why tempt fate).

Your first cabinet will be a learning experience - I am glad I used wood for my first build instead of metal (I can TIG weld). Metal might actually be cheaper but you end up re-doing some things as you dial everything in, such as your intake size, even the filter dims and fit can be tricky and it's nice to have the flexibility and workability of wood. Despite using a trusted vendor (not sponsored vendor of this site though), the motor they spec'd was WAY too big for the filter I bought from them. I ended up learning the flow hood math and finding the right blower myself, which meant more mods to the cabinet. Then the cabinet vibrated too much so I had to add in vibration isolating mounts and vibration isolating duct. Unless you think you are really, REALLY good and are only going to do everything once, I'd go with wood, even if more expensive.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Cob] * 1
    #27856983 - 07/10/22 06:50 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Wood can trap and harbor mold and bacteria. That is why I primed the inside and sealed the outside. Ideally you'd have a truly non-porous work-surface for your flat table area right in front of the hood. Most use stainless steel. I have a sheet of stainless I plan to cut to shape and screw down onto my wood table but haven't gotten around to it yet and I actually have not had any contamination issues with just using the polyurethane sealed wood table surface. I know copper is anti-microbial as you mention and I would think it would be just as good as, if not better than stainless for that reason so yeah I would go for it if you already have it.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: CowsPoopShrooms] * 1
    #27862292 - 07/14/22 10:02 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Nice work!


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: InfiniteLupercal]
    #27862359 - 07/14/22 10:58 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

InfiniteLupercal said:
Hello!

So quick cultivation background; I have done quite a few BRF cakes with pretty good success. Ready to take my first dive into bulk growing. Already have a grain jar almost totally colonized. However, the spawn colonization has slowed or possible halted (inoculated about a month ago). My suspicion is too much liquid in the jar (I used liquid culture and was a little overzealous on the amount). My question is; with 75-80% of the grain covered in beautiful white mycelium, is there a way to utilize what HAS colonized, and safely get rid of the uncolonized grain? Or does it matter, and should I just put the loose uncolonized grain in with my bulk substrate and not worry about it? Sorry if this is overly vague or broad, or has been touched on anywhere. Just figured for a first post this wouldn't be too bad?!?! Thanks for any help!!!

(I can snap a picture and attach it if that would help?!)




Pics might help give a better answer, depending on what the pics show. We might be able to identify some contamination in the jar depending on how it looks. If the jar is contaminated, most people don't bother trying to salvage portions of the jar because the success rate is rather low. You are best to just toss them and start over. If you REALLY want to salvage them and you don't have the culture backed up on an agar plate, I would suggest sterilizing a blade, letting it cool, then pulling out a couple of grains that look clean from the top and putting them on agar. Alternately you wrap a spoon in foil then bake it at 400F for 30 mins. Let it cool, then use it to scoop a tablespoon or two of grains from the top of the jar and dump those into a new clean jar of spawn and shake. That second option is likely to have a low success rate though. And either option should be done in your SAB or in front of your hood. Again, most of us just toss bad jars. If you have a yard, toss the grains under a bush and cover it with Blak Cow, compost, or coir and you are likely to get some good mushrooms outside:





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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: InfiniteLupercal]
    #27862407 - 07/14/22 11:51 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

That jar is extremely contaminated - bacterial. Just toss it outside and skip trying to save any grains from it.

How did you get the LC? And did you use a spore print or a spore syringe? You want to go spores to agar to grains. Can skip LC entirely unless you are growing large volumes.


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OfflineHindsight
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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: InfiniteLupercal] * 1
    #27862460 - 07/14/22 01:02 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Look up agar teks. I would suggest starting with no-pours. If you are getting LC or syringes, you will want to put them on agar to ensure they are clean. If you absolutely can't, or don't want to wait, make some BRF cakes and follow PF-Tek (using your LC syringe instead of a spore syringe). Agar is better but you can have a chance at success with BRF cakes.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24144021


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Smellyhobbit]
    #27897262 - 08/10/22 11:00 AM (1 year, 5 months ago)

Question for those of you who feel you have LC down pat. What kind of needles are you using, how long are they, and are they reusable or disposable? If they are reusable, how are you handling your sterile technique with them?

I haven't found any disposables that are long enough to get way down into a pint jar of LC. I would prefer disposables because they are easy to maintain sterility. Since I haven't found those, I found some reusable stainless steel 4" needles (forget that diameter but they are big enough to get mycelium into without an issue) that have a slip type fitting. I use those with disposable syringes, and I sterilize the needles by wrapping in foil individually and baking at 400F for 30 mins. The issue I have is that, even with a flow hood, I'm a bit nervous about maintaining sterility with them. The needle may puncture the foil without me noticing, prior to my unwrapping it. And when you unwrap the foil, there is always the risk of contamination from the foil getting onto the needle. Then I have to get the needle onto the syringe.... just a lot of things that could go wrong there. Sure, I can flame the tip of the needle but I'm more worried about the other end of the needle where it interfaces the syringe.... something getting blown in there by the hood during the unwrapping of the foil or disposable syringe.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: rumfor69]
    #27927499 - 08/31/22 12:53 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Send now.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: TillerG]
    #27928203 - 08/31/22 08:39 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TillerG said:
Looking on Amazon for coir bricks. So many different kinds. Any recommendations?




Local pet stores often have bricks for super cheap. If you end up having to buy from Amazon, Eco Earth and Coco Bliss are both reputable, tried and true brands used by many here with good results (including myself).


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Then Transporeter]
    #27939402 - 09/07/22 08:15 PM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

uninc4life2010 said:
I understand that many growers run inline exhaust fans and fans to circulate air and fog.  That being said, how do you all recommend to best control temps to get fruiting conditions into the 60-70 F range?

My assumption was to just control the temperature in the space where the grow tent sits via an AC unit.  That way, the intake would pull in air that's already cool enough.  Are there other ways, like hooking up a portable unit to pump cool/warm air in directly?

Thank you all for your help!

TL;DR How do you control temps in a grow tent for gourmet mushrooms??




Yes, controlling temps in the room where the tent sits is the best way. I like growing at 78F - the things I grow like it - even cubes, though I mostly grow pans, mexicana, etc. 78F is easy because most people keep their house at around that temp or lower via A/C, and if you keep it even lower than that, you can use a small heater in your grow area to bring temps up a bit. That same heater works great in the winter to get your room into the mid 70's when the rest of your house is in the high 60's etc.

Your other option is to skip the tent and instead us a JCM fruiting chamber. Basically just a large tote with a few inches of water in the bottom, to which you add an aquarium heater set to whatever temp you want your air in the tote to be (say 78F etc), and some air stones attached to an air pump sitting outside the tote. Put a wire dish rack in the tub to give you a floor surface that's up out of the water and set your trays on that, then put the lid on. High humidity and good temp control this way. Down side is not as much space as a tent.

Quote:

Then Transporeter said:
Quick question:

I am pouring agar into sterile 2oz plastic cups in a homemade 106qt Sterilite SAB. What is the best technique to use while pouring as it compares to petris?

Thanks in advance for any help.




No difference really. Pour is pour. I'm not a fan of pour agar in SABs. Bit of a pain and more risky than a flow hood since any contaminates on your hands or bottle will be falling downward toward you plates. Don't get me wrong, you can do it, it will work, but I prefer no-pours if using SAB and save pours for the flow hood. If in a SAB just try to pour into the very edge of the receiving container to keep as little above the receiving container as possible to reduce contamination risk.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: uninc4life2010]
    #27939959 - 09/08/22 07:49 AM (1 year, 4 months ago)

Quote:

uninc4life2010 said:
Okay.  What is a good option if I want to cool the tent?  Is there any way to chill the water in the fogger?




There isn't a great way to do that. You could cool the water in the fogger but doing that would require purchasing an expensive water chiller device, not to mention that I am not sure how much of an impact it would have on your tent temps anyway - definitely some but how much depends on how often you are fogging and I don't know if the fruits would like the temp swings. A much better option is keeping your room temp proper, with air conditioning. How hot is your room?


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Grogu] * 1
    #27976298 - 10/01/22 08:16 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

shroomsurf said:
What's the deal with casing/no casing? I've seem amazing pinsets with both and the only difference I'm thinking is the "casing" just has no nutrients near the surface and the "no casing" does so what's the deal...lol

Thanks,

:starwars:




Some varieties need casing in order to develop a pinset, or a good pinset. Most cubes don't require it, though I have found a number of cubes benefit from it substantially. Taman Nagara and OG Melmac are two cube varieties that I have much better and faster pinsets with when using a casing. My procedure for cubes is to grow without casing and if they seem to be very slow to pin, or the pinset is bad, I'll use a casing layer in my next attempt and see if there is a difference.

Once you get out of cubes, many varieties require a casing. Well, again, you can often get away without a casing layer but the pinsets will be slow to develop and very sparse. Panaelous is a good example.


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Re: Ask Quick Questions, Get Quick Answers [Re: Widowedshroom] * 1
    #27976396 - 10/01/22 09:41 AM (1 year, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Widowedshroom said:
All, would you case this now or let it ride out and see what happens? This is a PE cake. First time grower here.




Personally I would case that now, yes. I would strongly recommend a mix of 50/50 peat moss and fine vermiculite with 1Tbs of hydrated lime per quart of 50/50 blend. Bring to field capacity and pasteurize or sterilize. The pasteurization or sterilization is optional but I have found increased success by pasteurizing it.


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