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OfflineDanny_k
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Registered: 04/06/22
Posts: 7
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List
    #27722895 - 04/06/22 06:42 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

So I am just making this post to kind of consolidate and list out the pros and cons of vs grow teks and styles. Essentially today is going to be the all in one bag grow vs mono tub grow... and for sake of knowledge lets just assume cubes are species of choice and all other factors are the same (Spawn type, room temp, substrate etc) Would like some insight on anything I am not thinking of.  Also added a poll because who doesnt love data.

Poll questions: Do you enjoy growing/fruiting in Mono tubs or Bags better?


Mono Tubes: The pros:

Larger surface area
Potentially Higher yield
easy to transport and monitor
Reusable housing (better on the environment)
Greater hands on exp, more chance for learning

Mono Tube: The Cons:

Dunking for multi flushes can be a pain
Potential for more maintenance (Misting fanning)
Bulkier takes up more space and shelving
Larger and open air eco chamber. Larger batch that gets contam more waste, also the contam is in open container and can spread



Grow Bags: The Pros:

Set it and forget it
all enclosed contam containment
No misting
No clean up of tubs, just grow, harvest, toss out the bag
Lower waste in cases of contam (lower amount of sub per bag
Quicker set up time.
Easy to dunk and drain for multi flushes

Grow Bags The Con:

Environmental impact (depending on op, that could be a lot of plastic)
Costly, you can spend a lot of money buying 1 time use bags
Potentially smaller yields given size constraints.
Less hands on less learning
Can be harder to harvest without destroying the bag


Thats all I can think of at the moment. Let me know if I missed anything. Also let me know your thoughts on the idea that a 5qt mono tub yields more that a all in one grow bag (while also keeping in mind subs and spawn volume) I havent ran the numbers yet but it would be interesting experiment to run which I will add to my bucket list.

Say I run a mono tub that takes 4 pounds of sub and 2 pound of spawn what would be my yield on that vs an all in one grow bag that holds say 2 pounds of sub and 1 pound of spawn, and then calculate the yield to volume ratio. (Also I have no idea if those weights are in line with what would actually be held I'm just spit balling)

Anyways before this goes on too long of a tangent lt me know your thoughts on all of it? Any personal experience do you like Mono tubs more of bags more.

Thanks for your time!
ng BagsDo you prefer growing in Mono Tubs or Fruiti
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (04/06/22 12:00 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



Edited by Danny_k (04/06/22 06:57 AM)


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OfflineBobbins
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Registered: 02/02/22
Posts: 445
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Danny_k]
    #27724145 - 04/07/22 02:32 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

You can't use a supplemented/sterile bulk substrate in a monotub so there is that.


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InvisibleeLShaMukO
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Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,685
Loc: far away
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Bobbins]
    #27724442 - 04/07/22 11:10 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about


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OfflineBobbins
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Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #27725155 - 04/08/22 12:09 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about




Not everybody is growing actives.


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DeALeRsHrOoMs


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InvisibleeLShaMukO
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Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Bobbins] * 2
    #27725606 - 04/08/22 11:59 AM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about




Not everybody is growing actives.




:picard:  read the first post correctly

good day


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OfflineDanny_k
Explorer
I'm a teapot
Registered: 04/06/22
Posts: 7
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #27733120 - 04/13/22 03:58 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about





Thanks for this insight!


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OfflineOm Namo Shivaya


Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 749
Last seen: 7 days, 15 hours
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Danny_k]
    #27789045 - 05/23/22 05:10 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Running an experiment right now. I heard recently about some people using sterilized all-in-ones and also heard about people spawning to bags instead of tubs and getting better yield, more contained contamination, and bigger fruits.

I've only ever used monotubs(or shoeboxes) really, but so far i'm thinking i will swap entirely to bags. One reason is, I have been having major contamination issues and I think it is due to tubs not being cleaned thoroughly enough, tubs cross-contaminating, etc, so I am curious to see if the bags will have a major cutdown on contamination for me. so far it seems that way.

While it is more work at harvest to have to cut the bag, pick inside the bag, and reseal for second and third(maybe forth) flush, i think compared to having to cut a liner, clean the liner, clean the tub, spawn/mix to tub, dump tub and reclean the tub, it might actually be the same amount of labor, if not less, to work with bags over tubs.

And in terms of watering, i'm going to experiment with just pouring a few cups or so of water into the bags after the first flush to let it soak up. But i've heard because there is much less evaporation than a monotub that they don't need as much rehydration.

I'll also be comparing yields between sterilized all-in-ones and spawned bags. right now the ratios i'm trying out are:

Sterilized all-in-ones: 2.5lbs hydrated wheat + 2 liters hydrated coco
spawned bags at various ratios: 5lb spawn bag to 2,3,4, or 5 bags of 3 liters hydrated coco per bag.

I just had my first harvest yesterday on some of the 5lb to 5 bags, and doing some estimates it looks like i'll be yielding around 2 oz dry on first flush from each of the 5 bags(so 10 oz first flush off the 5 lbs of spawn). If i recall correctly, i was yielding closer to
6 or 7 oz from the first flush, on the same 5 lb spawn to monotub with this strain. 

Another note: the sterilized all-in-ones are almost ready to harvest and they definitely have noticeably more fruit than the 1-to-5 spawn bags. we'll see how the total yield relative to spawn comes out.

Hope these notes are helpful, if you want me to keep you updated on my results let me know.


Edited by Om Namo Shivaya (05/23/22 05:24 AM)


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OfflineBobbins
Stranger
Registered: 02/02/22
Posts: 445
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #27790175 - 05/24/22 02:55 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
Quote:

Bobbins said:
Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about




Not everybody is growing actives.




:picard:  read the first post correctly

good day




If you are growing gourmet which typically uses a supplemented substrate, else why bother due to the low yield otherwise, this cannot be done in a monotub due to it needing to remain sterile throughout the colonisation and therefore must be done in bags or other completely sealed containers. That is why people use bags. If you can't grasp this I assume you've never grown gourmet.

Read and understand this correctly.


--------------------
DeALeRsHrOoMs


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InvisibleQM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Bobbins]
    #27790318 - 05/24/22 06:55 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
You can't use a supplemented/sterile bulk substrate in a monotub so there is that.




Well noone does that anyway so that doesn't matter at all.
And ya you can if you want, I e colonized supped bulk subs in bags on their sides, even up right then broken up and put into a tub.


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InvisibleQM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Om Namo Shivaya]
    #27790321 - 05/24/22 07:05 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Om Namo Shivaya said:
Running an experiment right now. I heard recently about some people using sterilized all-in-ones and also heard about people spawning to bags instead of tubs and getting better yield, more contained contamination, and bigger fruits.

I've only ever used monotubs(or shoeboxes) really, but so far i'm thinking i will swap entirely to bags. One reason is, I have been having major contamination issues and I think it is due to tubs not being cleaned thoroughly enough, tubs cross-contaminating, etc, so I am curious to see if the bags will have a major cutdown on contamination for me. so far it seems that way.

While it is more work at harvest to have to cut the bag, pick inside the bag, and reseal for second and third(maybe forth) flush, i think compared to having to cut a liner, clean the liner, clean the tub, spawn/mix to tub, dump tub and reclean the tub, it might actually be the same amount of labor, if not less, to work with bags over tubs.

And in terms of watering, i'm going to experiment with just pouring a few cups or so of water into the bags after the first flush to let it soak up. But i've heard because there is much less evaporation than a monotub that they don't need as much rehydration.

I'll also be comparing yields between sterilized all-in-ones and spawned bags. right now the ratios i'm trying out are:

Sterilized all-in-ones: 2.5lbs hydrated wheat + 2 liters hydrated coco
spawned bags at various ratios: 5lb spawn bag to 2,3,4, or 5 bags of 3 liters hydrated coco per bag.

I just had my first harvest yesterday on some of the 5lb to 5 bags, and doing some estimates it looks like i'll be yielding around 2 oz dry on first flush from each of the 5 bags(so 10 oz first flush off the 5 lbs of spawn). If i recall correctly, i was yielding closer to
6 or 7 oz from the first flush, on the same 5 lb spawn to monotub with this strain. 

Another note: the sterilized all-in-ones are almost ready to harvest and they definitely have noticeably more fruit than the 1-to-5 spawn bags. we'll see how the total yield relative to spawn comes out.

Hope these notes are helpful, if you want me to keep you updated on my results let me know.






Here's what I do, mainly because tubs suck to clean, that's it, all this substrate nonsense. Coir holds water, grains provide nutes, simple as that, fuck manure, manure isn't allowed for a good reason actually in oregons new medical program. Because it can harbor diseases that if not treated properly could be passed to your fruit and you.

I hydrate all my sub in a big stock tank with cold water, the. Scoop a gallon of hydrated sub into a XLSA bag. I do like 1 to 4 parts coir to water by weight, you want to be able to squeeze some water out of it, field capacity will not cut it.
Put those bags into my steamer, alternatively you can bucket Tek into the bags even, or bucket Tek and fill bags after. Ensuring the coir stays above 170 for an hour is important. I steam them until core temp is 179 then turn it off. Let them cool.
About a 3lb block gets 1lb spawn. Shake the bag like a gourmet bag.
And here's my secret. I just told the bag over under the filter! No seal, no clips, a simple food below the filter allows just enough for gas build up to exit, which is really about all they need, like a nomod tub, you can find or add holes if you want but I've found it unnecessary.
Harvest by slowly removing the entire cake, even using a piece of cardboard to hold the canopy while removing the bag.

Beat part, bags are reusable! 3 bags is equal to about 1 tub. And I can mix 3 bags about as quick as mixing tubes. No liners for bags, no holes to mess with, a simple spray with the hose or sink and they're ready for reuse. And they get filled and steamed again.

I might even see if I can get custom ones without filters.

This is the way, at least for now. Much more time effective.









And are you saying you doing a comparative trial for different subs? I'm a little confused on your comparisons, but ide love to see the results! Maybe start a thread for it, and give me a link!

I'm planning on doing similar trials to try and weed out the profiteers and save the OMC fam some money.

Anything they can do YOU can do better!


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI


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InvisibleQM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: QM33]
    #27790364 - 05/24/22 07:48 AM (1 year, 8 months ago)

..

I like tubs too tho


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI


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OfflineOm Namo Shivaya


Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 749
Last seen: 7 days, 15 hours
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: QM33]
    #27790714 - 05/24/22 02:07 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

QM33 said:
..

I like tubs too tho







Is that Enigma? Very interesting growth.


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OfflineOm Namo Shivaya


Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 749
Last seen: 7 days, 15 hours
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: QM33]
    #27790715 - 05/24/22 02:09 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Heya, I just meant I am doing a grow with bags for the first time and I am comparing bags (in a variety of ratios) versus tubs.

So far the bags seem to be the winner, i'm surprised i haven't heard of people doing cubes in bags until just recently.


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InvisibleeLShaMukO
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,685
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Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Bobbins]
    #27790743 - 05/24/22 02:33 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
Quote:

Bobbins said:
Quote:

eLShaMukO said:
bags do offer some commodity as a fruiting chamber , but at harvest time it will be a lot more work to open each bag (assuming a hundred) and harvest everything on the bottom , and assuming one wants to keep the blocks for more then one flush and dont mind the mess , hydration of the blocks would be another thing to think about




Not everybody is growing actives.




:picard:  read the first post correctly

good day




If you are growing gourmet which typically uses a supplemented substrate, else why bother due to the low yield otherwise, this cannot be done in a monotub due to it needing to remain sterile throughout the colonisation and therefore must be done in bags or other completely sealed containers. That is why people use bags. If you can't grasp this I assume you've never grown gourmet.

Read and understand this correctly.




op says lets assume cubes is the species of choice ,you are the only one who cant grasp that ..correctly :rofl2:


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InvisibleMurphSmurf
Float On
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 02/08/18
Posts: 68
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: eLShaMukO]
    #27790756 - 05/24/22 02:46 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

manure isn't allowed for a good reason actually in oregons new medical program




Interesting, off to look into that. What about sterilizing manure in a MCVG AIO?


--------------------
Long-time lurker - love this site - love to learn - love agar - MMFam


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InvisibleQM33
(NOT A PUPPET!) ❤❤❤❤❤
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 04/09/20
Posts: 4,739
Loc: Oregon
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: MurphSmurf]
    #27790825 - 05/24/22 03:59 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Yes enigma, yes interesting, a iso I cloned of the last round that seems to have stabilized, very thick.



Wtf is mcvg aio?

It's basically because of stamets, he presented the idea to the panel. You can find it discribed in the officially legislation 333-333 or whatever. You can go to oregon.gov/psilocybin or something like that and find a link for the full legislation, but again it won't tell you why.

Stamets is right tho. You only have to have a basic understanding of manure to understand the dangers it harbors. Not to say it couldn't be done safely, but it opens the doors for alot of potential danger that is easily avoided.



Aslo think, manure is grass digested by a cow. Grains are the fruits of grasses for the most part. So not only are they more nutritious in nature, butt hey also haven't been digested already. Idk just a thought on that


--------------------
OmManiPadmeHum,OmManiPadmeHum, OmManiPadMeHum...
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns,
          there are also unknown unknowns.
With great privilege comes great responsibility.

Quantom Qups PROOF AND Soft Drops
Turn your Swab to a Syringe and Syringe to Multiple Syringes!
No Pours (QuantomStyal)
Magic Fruit Leather
DMT for IandI


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OfflineOm Namo Shivaya


Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 749
Last seen: 7 days, 15 hours
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: QM33]
    #27790894 - 05/24/22 05:12 PM (1 year, 8 months ago)

Quote:

QM33 said:
Yes enigma, yes interesting, a iso I cloned of the last round that seems to have stabilized, very thick.






Nice, Yeah i've noticed a similar thing with enigma. I have a few cultures and one is very wavy and makes these fragile, turkey-tail-like growths. The other two cultures produce dense cauliflower chunks that are much easier to harvest.


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OfflineValgrant
Mushroom Farmer
Male
Registered: 08/19/19
Posts: 10
Last seen: 12 days, 5 hours
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Om Namo Shivaya]
    #27793718 - 05/26/22 01:34 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

:laugh: Great


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InvisibleCowsPoopShrooms
StillUphill


Registered: 06/08/22
Posts: 505
Re: All in one bags vs Mono Tubs a pros and cons List [Re: Bobbins]
    #27820694 - 06/15/22 11:34 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

that is?


Edited by CowsPoopShrooms (10/14/22 01:53 PM)


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