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 ComfortablyNumb-PF
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 Premature Teachers 
#27817573 - 06/13/22 02:34 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Hey all, looking for some guidance. I am currently on my first grow and have 3 monotubs going. Yeah, I know everyone recommends starting slowly, but there was very little price difference other than the tubs themselves so it did not make sense to start with one since multiple spore syringes were basically going to cost the same as one when I factored in shipping costs, everything else was a minimal investment. As is I was sent an 4th syringe of A+ for free by being associated with this forum that I have not used. This hobby has so much conflicting information that I am not sure how viable the syringes will be when stored, some resources say use them right away, others say they will be good for years if in the fridge. Weed was much more consistent with the information I found and was able to pull a pound from my first grow just by reading and continued to do well but it was just too much of a time suck for me at that time in my life.
Anyway 2 of the 3 were inoculated at the same time and I have already completed my first flush of the B+ that was a week ahead of the GT's. The GT's however are growing super slow and pinning but most all of them are breaking veils when they are super small. The GT's were were fully colonized and moved to the monotub on 5/14 (a week after the B+) and I am finally starting to see a decent amount of pins but not sure if they are going to grow small like all the ones I have had to pull.
I am struggling to find a good thread on the topic, if anyone knows of any existing information I can read up on a link would be perfect.
Will the babies I pulled be of any usable potency despite being small?
Here is a pic of the GT Tub.
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CannabisKid
Registered: 05/11/17
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What was your metric that you followed to confirm spawn was clean?
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****in Skitz m8
Follow My Journal - 22/08/17 First Grow (Monotub~Bulk)
"My posts on this forum are for role playing purposes only."
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Quote:
CannabisKid said:
What was your metric that you followed to confirm spawn was clean?
I purchased sterilized grain bags.
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Guerrilla
Registered: 01/30/21
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Ok so there's a few reasons why that's not a determination of clean spawn.
If the grain bag was truly sterile to begin with, then this is only your grains that are clean, your canvas if you wish, not your spawn.
There's also a chance they weren't clean, buying sterilised grain bags is a gamble, you don't really know.
Anyway, we're going to assume the grains were clean.
Your spawn is your fully colonised grain bag, your finished piece of art.
If the means of inoculating your grain bag were not clean, either through your method or your inoculant (such as a spore syringe) - then your final spawn is not clean.
When going from spore syringe directly to grains there is a high chance of contamination. Spore syringes are inherently dirty which is why we use agar to clean them up and be sure our inoculant is clean.
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Edited by Guerrilla (06/13/22 03:15 PM)
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Guerrilla]
#27817636 - 06/13/22 03:22 PM (12 days, 1 hour ago) |
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Then it is very possible it was not clean as I did exactly that. Nothing smells off and I am getting some production but it sounds like that means nothing. When I opened the grain bag it smelled nice and earthy though.
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Guerrilla
Registered: 01/30/21
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Sometimes spawn can seem clean, especially to the untrained eye, but still be bacterial.
Bacterial spawn can still fruit, sometimes quite happily, but other times can exhibit defects such as small fruits or stalling of growth.
Clean spawn should generally smell like fresh mushrooms.
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Edited by Guerrilla (06/13/22 03:24 PM)
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Guerrilla] 1
#27817703 - 06/13/22 04:08 PM (12 days, 23 minutes ago) |
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Sounds like I need to learn agar sooner than I expected, I knew I would need to but thought I would get started the easy way while I work my way up to that. My wife had cancer and after she asked her Dr about microdosing he very much encouraged her and said his wife does it. We got burned on the first order and the 2nd one was very expensive so I thought I would grow our own since I want to take some too. We also use it recreationally. I definitely have a start from the B+ tub. Quite amazing how many videos and tutorials there are on syringe to grain bag.
At this point I have one unused syringe and 3 other syringes in the fridge. Are those good candidates to go into agar or should I purchase new/fresh syringes or get spores and skip the syringes entirely?
As far as that tub goes, there is nothing I need to do to try to correct anything right? I am misting if it looks like its drying up and have 6 holes for FAE and have been fanning more often.
Thanks all!
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Guerrilla
Registered: 01/30/21
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Agar is a learning curve for beginners so expect some failure to begin with, but keep reporting back to the forum with progress and questions and you'll get all the help you need.
You'll need to build a SAB (still air box) which is just a large clear tote with two arm holes cut out. This will be your clean environment for your cultivation, working in still air, and trying to maintain that still air throughout work by being mindful of hand movements and placement.
Your syringes will be fine to go to agar, just one drop on an agar plate is enough (shake the syringe first), though I'd recommend getting an inoculation loop so that you can streak the spore solution across the plate. Couple reasons - 1) to distribute excess liquid and 2) to give you the potential access to multiple mycelial colonies. You may see growth in the pattern you streaked the plate versus just growth in the center where the drop of spore solution was placed.
However, spore prints are far superior and I would always recommend anyone to use them over syringes. If you give me a PM once you're all set up with your agar gear, I should have some prints I can send you free of charge (use privnote.com to create a self destructing note when sending addresses to people on here for giveaways or trades).
Another way you can make good use of your syringes is PF tek. PF Tek involves a brown rice flour and vermiculite mixture which is highly resistant to contamination, where whole grains are not.
You will likely have good success with your syringes to PF and it's something you can do while you're learning agar.
Also, in response to your original post, the baby mushrooms (pins) are actually quite potent. So you may get something from them depending on how many you have.
With your current tub, misting if it dries is fine. There should be lots of tiny water droplets across the surface. Ditch the fanning though - it's outdated information and serves no purpose - your FAE is providing all the air exchange you need.
Misting will become redundant or close to it as you gain more experience. Correctly hydrated substrates don't need misting, only rehydrating via bottom watering with a syringe when there are heavy pinsets, or in later flushes, dunking the tub in water (just the bottom half floating in water for up to 12hrs).
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Edited by Guerrilla (06/13/22 04:27 PM)
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CannabisKid
Registered: 05/11/17
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Mycelium Spawn does not smell earthy. A soil smell is a clear contamination. Once you’ve smelt a clean jar of myc you will have the nose for it
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****in Skitz m8
Follow My Journal - 22/08/17 First Grow (Monotub~Bulk)
"My posts on this forum are for role playing purposes only."
Edited by CannabisKid (06/13/22 04:37 PM)
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Guerrilla]
#27817799 - 06/13/22 05:33 PM (11 days, 22 hours ago) |
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Thank you very much for the info and offer! Awesome help.
As I noted earlier there is so much contradictory information on this. I actually started out not misting much and never fanning because I had read a lot of people saying it was not necessary and quite frankly I did not want to be a slave to the process. I only started doing it when the GT's were premature.
Again, thank you very much for the help!
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Seeing a few different options for making one where some just tape the holes and cut a cross in them and others where they are making an actual glove box. Is the glove necessary, recommended or optional but best?
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Guerrilla
Registered: 01/30/21
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Quote:
ComfortablyNumb-PF said:
Seeing a few different options for making one where some just tape the holes and cut a cross in them and others where they are making an actual glove box. Is the glove necessary, recommended or optional but best?
Gloves attached to the box are not recommended at all, they actually cause more problems.
Just two open holes is good. And you can get velcro strips to attach covers for the holes for when you're letting unwrapped Petri dishes sit for a while.
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Edited by Guerrilla (06/13/22 06:05 PM)
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Guerrilla]
#27817834 - 06/13/22 06:07 PM (11 days, 22 hours ago) |
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Wow, so glad I asked, seems like it would be the ultimate option!
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 Ashtray161
SettledNomad
Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 3,863
Loc: Rugby, England
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Agar is king, you will thank yourself for learning it. I'd suggest staying away from premade stuff and grow kits, DIY is significantly cheaper, more fun, and more successful.
Guriella has given you a bunch of super good info from what I skimmed so I'd follow their advice.
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Yeah, I knew to get the kind of consistency I would want that I would need to eventually learn it. When I started this a couple months ago I thought I could get away with being lazy, but that is apparently not going to be the case. Now you are shooting down my prepoured agar plates! I agree though mostly because I am frugal, exactly the reason I started doing this in the first place, but if its cheaper and better then its an easy call.
All good, I am down to learn and am a quick study!
Is amazon a good resource for supplies or should I be finding more a lab place to purchase from?
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Ashtray161
SettledNomad
Registered: 03/21/21
Posts: 3,863
Loc: Rugby, England
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Quote:
ComfortablyNumb-PF said:
Yeah, I knew to get the kind of consistency I would want that I would need to eventually learn it. When I started this a couple months ago I thought I could get away with being lazy, but that is apparently not going to be the case. Now you are shooting down my prepoured agar plates! I agree though mostly because I am frugal, exactly the reason I started doing this in the first place, but if its cheaper and better then its an easy call.
All good, I am down to learn and am a quick study!
Is amazon a good resource for supplies or should I be finding more a lab place to purchase from?
I personally use amazon for quite a few things but certain things like petri dishes and jars are way overpriced so I get them from lab supply stores for plates and IRL for jars. Same thing w Oats. I get those off, not on amazon. Lots of things I do get from them though
Edited by Ashtray161 (06/13/22 09:23 PM)
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Hey all, these teachers now have tiny flies all up in them. They seem to be only contained to that bin. I have some fly traps around the bin and a small one in the bin (per some info I found on this thread.
These things are still producing on the first flush but probably nearing the end, I read that I might be able to dunk/down everything and continue on but I am wondering if I should just cut bait and dump them now.
Thoughts?
On the brighter side of things, my other tub is looking very nice. Really dont want to screw up that run too.
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Ashtray161
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Registered: 03/21/21
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You need to get a hold on your infestation or it's going to keep getting worse. They breed extreamly quickly.
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Yeah, I am definitely trying, just vacuumed out all the ones I could find. I have 3x traps now one being just a bowl of soapy water. I also wrapped the top of the bin in plastic wrap so hopefully nothing escapes.
If this does not look better tomorrow morning I can cutting my losses and tossing them, then spraying the room.
Is this caused by the tub or did these come in the spawn bag? I am certain the substrate was processed properly.
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Ashtray161
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Loc: Rugby, England
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Quote:
ComfortablyNumb-PF said:
Yeah, I am definitely trying, just vacuumed out all the ones I could find. I have 3x traps now one being just a bowl of soapy water. I also wrapped the top of the bin in plastic wrap so hopefully nothing escapes.
If this does not look better tomorrow morning I can cutting my losses and tossing them, then spraying the room.
Is this caused by the tub or did these come in the spawn bag? I am certain the substrate was processed properly.
They came from your environment. Theyll set up shop in sink drains (and any other drains) and in the tubs. They like water and food scraps
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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OK, learning daily. Like I said, I have these pretty well sealed up and am watching carefully. If things aren looking better tomorrow this tub is gone, I do not want to risk my other tub.
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Rotnpins
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Registered: 01/11/22
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Loc: Sporetopia
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I've had to switch to fruiting in fahtlocks until fall/winter time due to gnats.. once I did that, plus set traps and fly tape, they finally went away.. after these tubs are done, I'd recommend trying to fruit in Ziplocks at least until you get the gnats under control
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Nichrome
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27824809 - 06/17/22 10:15 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Invest in tiny spiders. Then frogs for the spiders.
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Following the sun is what the earth is all about. Mold is mycelium too. Pheno Hunters
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Rotnpins
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Nichrome] 1
#27824824 - 06/17/22 10:22 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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 is that like a gecko for a cricket?
And then I think it's an owl for the gecko 
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Nichrome
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27824832 - 06/17/22 10:23 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Eventually it's a mongoose problem...
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Following the sun is what the earth is all about. Mold is mycelium too. Pheno Hunters
Edited by Nichrome (06/17/22 10:24 PM)
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Rotnpins
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Nichrome]
#27824836 - 06/17/22 10:25 PM (7 days, 18 hours ago) |
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Ashtray161
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Rotnpins] 1
#27824989 - 06/17/22 11:32 PM (7 days, 17 hours ago) |
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Or is it a mongoose opportunity 
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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LOL, got it! Spiders>Frogs>Mongeese. Noted 
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Rotnpins
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Quote:
ComfortablyNumb-PF said:
LOL, got it! Spiders>Frogs>Mongeese. Noted
Yupp..  welcome to mycology101
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Rotnpins]
#27827183 - 06/19/22 01:40 PM (6 days, 2 hours ago) |
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The teachers have retired. The flies did not seem to be in control and that tub was not producing much any way. After 18 hours of removing that tub I see no evidence of any more flies, but I am really hoping no eggs were laid in the room or the other tubs. I will be spraying the room with a pesticide while the other two tubs are soaking in another space.
I have also purchased my SAB bin, but have not yet modified it. Still need to purchase agar, though I need to do some research on which agar to purchase.
Wish me luck.
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Nichrome
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Eggs don't last more than a few days without humidity and the larvae would need a food source to mature into adults. Removing the food source for even a few days is usually enough to interrupt the life cycle.
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Following the sun is what the earth is all about. Mold is mycelium too. Pheno Hunters
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Ashtray161
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Re: Premature Teachers [Re: Nichrome]
#27828818 - 06/20/22 04:33 PM (4 days, 23 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Nichrome said:
Eggs don't last more than a few days without humidity and the larvae would need a food source to mature into adults. Removing the food source for even a few days is usually enough to interrupt the life cycle.
Just make sure to spend extra attention on sink drains, I've noticed theyll retreat there if they dont have a tub to feed on anymore. Any drains with food scraps in them are prime real estate for those little fuckers.
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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Thanks, I have no sinks in that area.
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ComfortablyNumb-PF
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SAB is complete!
I will also have all of my agar supplies by the end of this week, very excited for the next step in this journey. Also curious to see if the GT spores I got are viable after plating them. I pulled 57grams dry from the good tub (Cubensis Blue Meanie) not counting the 2 trays that were still on the dehydrator, pretty happy with that haul. Thinking those will be this weekends journey! I then soaked that tub and promptly got Trichoderma, pretty disappointed with that considering I had not gotten a print from the first flush. Not sure I am will keep trying to soak an entire tub, I see the videos of people that look like they have zero cleanliness and I cannot imaging how they get by like that. Maybe I am just doing it wrong or have bad water.
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