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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum * 4
    #27813318 - 06/10/22 11:58 AM (1 year, 7 months ago)

"The main objective of the present study was the production and extraction of commercially important ergot alkaloids from fungal species using fermentation technique to contribute to the field of pharmaceutical industry. Hence, this research was designed to synthesize ergot alkaloids from fungi because the life cycle of fungi is very small than plants and it can produce large amounts of ergot alkaloids in a very short period of time. Therefore, Penicillium citrinum was used in the present research for the production of ergot alkaloids within a very short period of time using a sophisticated statistical technique of response surface methodology during fermentation studies. The ergot alkaloids which are produced during this study were identified as ergocryptine and ergoclavine which are very useful as pharmaceutical and therapeutic agents and can be used in various drug formulations."

In this study, they show that simple colonies on agar of P. Citrinum produced decent yields of ergocryptine and ergoclavine.

They use a method in this study I'm not sure about, which exposes the cultures to UV light to induce alkaloid formation. They don't test a before/after exposure to UV unfortunately, so it is impossile to access the importance of that element. However, growing P. Citrinum in culture, even without this aspect, may be a good method for the production of ergot alkaloids without the need for the procurement of a strain of ergot.


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Offlinewhitehawk
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27813416 - 06/10/22 01:35 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

good to know


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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: CreonAntigone] * 2
    #27819234 - 06/14/22 12:22 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Intersting.

I read through this. But have questions.

Are they making ergot alkaloid-producing Penicillium simply from exposure to UV light and taking what doesn't die?

I assumed there would be something about CRISP or similar in this. I know micro fungi and also E. coli bacteria have been genetically altered to produce a bunch of drugs, I think even including psilocin.

There's one thing in passing in the article that might indicate genetic altering other than just UV light, but it's vague. It's this (emphasis underline mine):

Quote:

Methods and techniques in the synthesis of ergot alkaloids were improved over time with advancement of techniques and still efforts are being conceded, using the optimization techniques of fermentation technology, genetic improvement of strain and the use of protoplasts of the cultures




I'm almost wondering if they're publishing to establish Prior Art but intentionally obscuring a detail to cut down on someone beating them to the patent office.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: nektar61]
    #27819623 - 06/14/22 04:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Are they making ergot alkaloid-producing Penicillium simply from exposure to UV light and taking what doesn't die?

I assumed there would be something about CRISP or similar in this. I know micro fungi and also E. coli bacteria have been genetically altered to produce a bunch of drugs, I think even including psilocin.





From my research, this Penicillium naturally produces ergot alkaloids. I presumed the study was saying that exposure to UV somehow enhanced alkaloid production by inducing stress.

The main concerns here wouldn't be locating a wild-type strain of P. Citrinum that produces ergot alkaloids - apparently many in nature do. What might make this idea unworkable for ergot alkaloid production is that P. Citrinum is also known to produce many other toxic alkaloids that would contaminate any effort to isolate lysergic acid. It makes many mycotoxins, such as Citrinin.

My concern is, even if UV induces mass ergot alkaloid production, I'm concern about these other toxins and see no reason why they wouldn't also be present in the sample.


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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27819664 - 06/14/22 05:13 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CreonAntigone said:
Quote:

nektar61 said:
Are they making ergot alkaloid-producing Penicillium simply from exposure to UV light and taking what doesn't die?

I assumed there would be something about CRISP or similar in this. I know micro fungi and also E. coli bacteria have been genetically altered to produce a bunch of drugs, I think even including psilocin.





From my research, this Penicillium naturally produces ergot alkaloids. I presumed the study was saying that exposure to UV somehow enhanced alkaloid production by inducing stress.

The main concerns here wouldn't be locating a wild-type strain of P. Citrinum that produces ergot alkaloids - apparently many in nature do. What might make this idea unworkable for ergot alkaloid production is that P. Citrinum is also known to produce many other toxic alkaloids that would contaminate any effort to isolate lysergic acid. It makes many mycotoxins, such as Citrinin.

My concern is, even if UV induces mass ergot alkaloid production, I'm concern about these other toxins and see no reason why they wouldn't also be present in the sample.





Thank you.

What I find interesting is that it looks like maybe the lysergic acid amide in morning glory and woodrose isn't produced by the seeds, but by an ergot-like fungus that grows on the seeds. I wonder if that fungus could grow on agar (or maybe on rye agar)....

Use a VPN and TOR, government link:
"Periglandula, a new fungal genus within the Clavicipitaceae and its association with Convolvulaceae":
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21558502/

Wikipedia link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periglandula

The fungus, like ergot, contains other alkaloids, some horrible also, but I've seen an extraction, I think one by Sasha to get the pure out of seeds (out of the fungus).

I have taken and enjoyed some large (chickpea sized) woodrose seeds a long time ago, then more recently got extraordinarily sick on 7 very small ones, they were called "Terence McKenna varietal", supposedly from a line of seeds he and his brother grew in Hawaii. My symptoms were basically very low-level ergotism. Bad nausea, cold fingers and toes, trembling, vomiting, headache, general creeping malaise.


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Edited by nektar61 (06/14/22 05:23 PM)


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OfflineNichrome
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27822881 - 06/16/22 03:59 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Most ergot alkaloid producing fungi are triggered in that way by uv exposure.

Depending on the life stage and the preferences of the fungi a combination of lighting and temperature fluctuations in certain patterns will either start or halt the production of those alkaloids.


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: Nichrome]
    #27828053 - 06/19/22 11:36 PM (1 year, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
There's one thing in passing in the article that might indicate genetic altering other than just UV light, but it's vague. It's this (emphasis underline mine):

Quote:

Methods and techniques in the synthesis of ergot alkaloids were improved over time with advancement of techniques and still efforts are being conceded, using the optimization techniques of fermentation technology, genetic improvement of strain and the use of protoplasts of the cultures




I'm almost wondering if they're publishing to establish Prior Art but intentionally obscuring a detail to cut down on someone beating them to the patent office.




I agree that this passage implies some kind of genetic change to the species in question, but it is very vague. I agree they may well be trying to preserve a patent here.

If there was a genetic improvement to make with P. Citrinum, I think it'd be limiting the other toxic compounds so that it exclusively makes the lysergamides. I'm sure it is much more expensive to purify the final material if it contains a lot of undesireable compounds.

Quote:

nektar61 said:
I have taken and enjoyed some large (chickpea sized) woodrose seeds a long time ago, then more recently got extraordinarily sick on 7 very small ones, they were called "Terence McKenna varietal", supposedly from a line of seeds he and his brother grew in Hawaii. My symptoms were basically very low-level ergotism. Bad nausea, cold fingers and toes, trembling, vomiting, headache, general creeping malaise.






You must have picked up a bad strain of HBWR where the fungus in question produced some of the more toxic alkaloids. There are two basic classes of ergot alkaloids, the ergopeptines and the amides of lysergic acid. LSA and LSH are the amides - they aren't considered nearly as dangerous, they produce psychedelic effects; the ergopeptines such as ergotamine sometimes produce mental effects too, but their strongest effect is severe vasoconstriction. So one class is mostly physical effects, the other more mental ones - although the amides of lysergic acid can still cause vasoconstriction. It seems like you had a strain that produced too many of the more toxic alkaloids.

I'm sure that, even if the original for that strain came from McKenna, a lot could change about the seeds and the strain of fungus within a few seasons - even just one season of planting in an excessively wet area could change alkaloid content greatly.

Quote:

nektar61 said: Thank you.

What I find interesting is that it looks like maybe the lysergic acid amide in morning glory and woodrose isn't produced by the seeds, but by an ergot-like fungus that grows on the seeds. I wonder if that fungus could grow on agar (or maybe on rye agar)....

Use a VPN and TOR, government link:
"Periglandula, a new fungal genus within the Clavicipitaceae and its association with Convolvulaceae":
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21558502/

Wikipedia link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periglandula

The fungus, like ergot, contains other alkaloids, some horrible also, but I've seen an extraction, I think one by Sasha to get the pure out of seeds (out of the fungus). 




It is an idea I thought about before. The study that tried it on agar found it wouldn't grow. This makes sense, since the fungus lives in symbiosis in nature - it grows on the leaf surface of the morning glory plant and transmits alkaloids to the plant, which then brings the alkaloids to the seeds. So if you try to grow it on agar, there is no plant for it to be in symbiosis with and it doesn't grow so well.

I have two suggestions though for how one might be able to multiply alkaloids from morning glory plants...

1. One might be able to make a petri dish of plant cells - I've seen this done before. Then, since the fungus grows on the surface of the leaf, one could easily get it to grow in media.

2. What if one tried to grow morning glories in a specialized hydroponic system? Imagine that the 'nutrient water' for the plant also contained many things that feed the fungus, like sugars from malt extract. If that is the case, one might be able to get a soup of alkaloids multiplying in the liquid.

The setup I imagine is, first germinating the morning glory seeds, then transferring them to a special liquid. This special liquid presumably will eventually become full of LSA and LSH because the fungus will grow on the leaves and transport it down the stem, where it will accumulate in the water. Since the plant is still alive, the fungus still can take advantage of the symbiosis.

I think growing more alkaloids with living morning glory would be the best strategy for that particular fungus since it has never been observed to grow on its own, outside symbiosis, in nature.

For maximum efficiency though, one who wants to eventually just get pure lysergic acid should just make a liquid culture of Claviceps Purpurea, because it is said that the method to derive lysergic acid from ergotamine is easier than from LSA. But, the difference is, the alkaloids of morning glory are all useable as-is, since they are the watwer-soluble ones, whereas ergotamine is an ergopeptine. Potentially, then, the liquid culture from the morning glory fungus, Periglandula, would be much safer than the liquid culture of Claviceps Purpurea, the most common ergot species.

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Most ergot alkaloid producing fungi are triggered in that way by uv exposure.

Depending on the life stage and the preferences of the fungi a combination of lighting and temperature fluctuations in certain patterns will either start or halt the production of those alkaloids.




So then a person wishing to maximize ergotamine production from an ergot liquid culture might find a UV light worth the investment?


Edited by CreonAntigone (06/19/22 11:37 PM)


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OfflineMr.Giggles
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: CreonAntigone]
    #27848047 - 07/03/22 06:22 PM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Wait, so the "jailhouse lsd" with the mint toothpaste on the moldy orange could actually be real??? I met someone who said he used to do it when he was locked up but naturally I thought he was dumb-ass and either full of shit or it was the placebo effect. Either way he was still dumb-ass.
You should look into claviceps paspali btw, more desirable alkaloids profile than purpurea.


--------------------


Edited by Mr.Giggles (07/03/22 06:25 PM)


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InvisibleCreonAntigone
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: Mr.Giggles]
    #27851602 - 07/06/22 07:41 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Giggles said:
Wait, so the "jailhouse lsd" with the mint toothpaste on the moldy orange could actually be real??? I met someone who said he used to do it when he was locked up but naturally I thought he was dumb-ass and either full of shit or it was the placebo effect. Either way he was still dumb-ass.
You should look into claviceps paspali btw, more desirable alkaloids profile than purpurea.




You could generate ergot alkaloids that way, but most of them are toxic and unusable. So I'm still not certain p. Citrinum could be used, as there are many other toxic alkaloids at play.

With C. Paspali, it has a good profile of ergot alkaloids but it contains other mycotoxins that cause ataxia, the paspali 'staggers'. I'm not sure whether these toxins could be removed without destroying everything?

Quote:

  The toxicity is not ascribed to ergot alkaloids; the toxic principles are thought to be indole-diterpenes such as paspalinine and paspalitrem A and B, tremorgenic compounds from the sclerotia.




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OfflineCyonic
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Re: Good yield of ergot alkaloids from Penicillium Citrinum [Re: Nichrome]
    #27859464 - 07/12/22 12:55 AM (1 year, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nichrome said:
Most ergot alkaloid producing fungi are triggered in that way by uv exposure.

Depending on the life stage and the preferences of the fungi a combination of lighting and temperature fluctuations in certain patterns will either start or halt the production of those alkaloids.





Is claviceps one of the fungi that is affected by UV that way?

I collected a bunch of sclerotia that I discovered while I was walking around a town. They're probably not viable at this point but I could go back one day.


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