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averagehobbyist
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(pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated)
#27811209 - 06/08/22 06:45 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello to the wonderful people of the Shroomery
I spent 10 hours yesterday searching through previous posts seeking help discriminating between mycelium growth and mould/other contamination.
However after all this time and hundreds of posts I am still unsure.
These plates are on MEA agar, they are MS colombian spores from a stored print.
I have used a digital microscope to take photos at 40x magnification - I have not been able to find similar images on past "Contamination or Mycelium" posts
As such I am hoping someone in the know can identify these images and let it stand as a record for future noobs in the same position as me.
I will start with the photos that show what I believe is definitely mycelium.
The brown dots are spores, it is on a low contrast background which doesnt show the thin and whispy hyphae branching out.

Similar to image 1, but the other growth is slightly more visible.
 Here the wispy growth is slightly visible.

These images are on a black background and shows how thin and whispy the hyphae is. From my research I'm unsure whether this could simply be tomentose growth or contamination.



I'd really appreciate some opinions and want to say a big thanks to the Shroomery. I've been a long time lurker, first time poster. As such, please let me know if I've done something wrong with this post, or it goes against posting best practise.
Gracias!!
Edited by averagehobbyist (06/08/22 08:31 PM)
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Nichrome
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: averagehobbyist] 1
#27811313 - 06/08/22 08:05 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Most folks don't click on offsite links. Can you just upload pics to shroomery? They strip all data and don't keep fancy records about jack squat. Probably one of the safest venues online in that regard. If you can post pictures here I'd be happy to help.
Fuck trackers.
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averagehobbyist
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: Nichrome]
#27811338 - 06/08/22 08:34 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks heaps for your reply. I didn't realise the images weren't showing.
I uploaded them on shroomery and used the on-site links. Do you see them properly now?
I strongly agree btw, fuck trackers !
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TheTimelessDon
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: averagehobbyist]
#27811350 - 06/08/22 08:41 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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To my eyes, looks like both!
It looks like the outer reaching strands are mycelium for sure... But the overlay on top of the spores could be mold. I'm not too sure what that possible mold looks like under further magnification, but I'm just judging based on other pictures I've seen recently posted here.
Awesome pics and hope you post more!
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averagehobbyist
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: TheTimelessDon]
#27811466 - 06/08/22 10:11 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey thanks for taking the time to reply!
I will be very happy to have it be mycelium, even if there is contamination and I have to sector it out.
I'm actually making a time lapse of the mycelium (hopefully) growing, I'll upload it to this thread if it comes out ok
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rcraft
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: averagehobbyist]
#27811485 - 06/08/22 10:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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So the problem is both mold and mushrooms have "mycelium", and there are subtle differences in their structures (apologies if you already know this and I'm missing forum shorthand where mycelium==mushroom). https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25975793#25975793 is what you probably hope to see more of.
I assume you meant 40x with a 10x viewport, so these are 400x views? I wonder if you could perhaps get flatter/dispersed areas so you can make out the individual hyphae? It's all a bit too cobbled together to make any distinctive characteristics out. Perhaps a bit too bright too, may be washing out some of the outlines.
Do you have pictures of the agar plates as well? Any notes, did they smell like anything?
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Nichrome
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: rcraft]
#27811499 - 06/08/22 10:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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It looks awfully fast and I see a lot of individual strands that reach and some fork or split, but they don't join together. They run next to each other...

If it were a boxing match I'd bet on the other guy. Sorry that's just what I see. Good time to reflect on what you learned and try again.
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Ashtray161
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: Nichrome]
#27811507 - 06/08/22 10:47 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nichrome said: It looks awfully fast and I see a lot of individual strands that reach and some fork or split, but they don't join together. They run next to each other...

If it were a boxing match I'd bet on the other guy. Sorry that's just what I see. Good time to reflect on what you learned and try again.
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averagehobbyist
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: Nichrome]
#27811642 - 06/09/22 04:19 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nichrome said: It looks awfully fast and I see a lot of individual strands that reach and some fork or split, but they don't join together. They run next to each other...

If it were a boxing match I'd bet on the other guy. Sorry that's just what I see. Good time to reflect on what you learned and try again.
I spent some time looking at images of mushroom and mold see distinctions between how their Hyphae is organised.. They tend to be more cohesive, growing outward much like a stem, and shooting off into branches. What I have here looks more like mold because, like you said, they do not join together, the centre is a tangled mess of threads.
I am still left with a question whether the feature of cohesion and organisation is a feature of rhizomorhpic growth, and whether tomentose growth can look like what I'm seeing in the early stages.
Regardless, I agree with you. At this point it's probably mold. I will just set the plates aside and try again with some different prints.
Thanks for taking the time to give me some help 
Quote:
rcraft said: So the problem is both mold and mushrooms have "mycelium", and there are subtle differences in their structures (apologies if you already know this and I'm missing forum shorthand where mycelium==mushroom). https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25975793#25975793 is what you probably hope to see more of.
I assume you meant 40x with a 10x viewport, so these are 400x views? I wonder if you could perhaps get flatter/dispersed areas so you can make out the individual hyphae? It's all a bit too cobbled together to make any distinctive characteristics out. Perhaps a bit too bright too, may be washing out some of the outlines.
Do you have pictures of the agar plates as well? Any notes, did they smell like anything?
Hi rcraft,
Thanks for your reply mate. Before today, I didn't realise mould was a form of fungus. So yes it's very helpful to have that pointed out. Your images were very helpful. It's what I was looking for last night, so I spent some time looking at more images and realised it's probably mould. They were a great reference.
Regarding the magnification, I am using a cheap USB digital microscope. I think 400x magnification makes a bit more sense, but it would be hard for me to tell.
I had some issues taking photos of the agar due to condensation and smudging. The growth is still very tiny, but is starting to become more visible. I will try to take some better photos using your suggestions, if only for the practise.
I'll also update this thread to say whether it was mycelium or mold, in case anyone has a similar question in future.
Thanks for all the help I can't believe how great this site is
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Nichrome
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: averagehobbyist]
#27811815 - 06/09/22 07:48 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cohesion and organization, or at least what I think you mean by those terms will be a microscopic feature of both rhizomorphic and tomentose growth. Those terms (rhizo/tommy) are limiting and not a good way to describe mycelium past macroscopic viewing. Microscopy is a different world. P. cubensis mycelium is not confined by rhizo or tommy growth only.
Even with culture that are not mold, just following germination of spores you will not see real patterns right away. It can take potentially weeks and several transfers before you see real patterns of growth. Those patterns can change too and are not always telling of what will happen in the end. There is nothing wrong with tomentose growth. I've seen plenty of great cultures that never get ropey rhizomorphs and I've seen plenty of rhizomorphic cultures that just shit the bed and quit or suck as fruiters. Just keep pouring plates and swiping spores and watching.
Cube myc up close. Most of what you can see here is thousands of hyphae that have already joined together in a cohesive effort.

Just take pictures of mycelium on plates with a regular camera at regular magnification if you want help. Most folks here don't practice microscopy and wouldn't be able to help much. I love my microscope and have spent thousands of hours looking through it and observing. It is worthy but you don't need to bother with that for just growing some fruits. Growing fruits successfully is step 1. It gives you a relativity point to compare your observations.
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redcrow

Registered: 03/25/22
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Re: (pics under 40x magnification) Is this tomentose mycelium or contamination? (agar) (help appreciated) [Re: averagehobbyist]
#27811958 - 06/09/22 09:26 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not sure if this will help distinguish mold from mushroom mycelia, but I posted some pictures I took at about 200x in my thread titled "First agar plates" At that magnification, mycelia looked like Nichrome's picture above. The suspected contam picture didn't have clear fibers like that.
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