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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27812142 - 06/09/22 01:57 PM (16 days, 2 hours ago)

Slowly getting there! One failure at a time :grin:

So on the concept of drying. How should I go about that? Dry in an oven maybe on baking trays?

I kept the oats in a colander in the fridge for a night, even more. But maybe this brand needs more drying.

Here's what BOD had to say:



I personally find that drier grains perform way better than anything too wet. I sometimes prepare lots of grain a day ahead of time let it dry in the colander for a few hours then put it in the fridge overnight. It almost seems too dry, you can't get it too dry. If I have the time I vastly prefer to make the grain on the dry side



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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27812184 - 06/09/22 02:20 PM (16 days, 1 hour ago)

Don't use heat to dry them as you can get them too dry, you're just not reaching that point yet with passive drying. 

The hulls on oats don't release water as easily as the surface of wheat/rye/barley so they usually take a bit longer to dry.  You want to let the grain steam off as much as possible to remove the excess moisture before it becomes trapped in the grains when they cool.  It also helps to have a fan blowing on the grain to get the moisture out of the way quicker.  For me it takes me 1-2 hours on a screen table for a sack of grain to dry enough for bagging.  I stop drying when grains don't stick to my hands while mixing them.


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Invisiblesandman420
Saint PP
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Registered: 06/17/04
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27812192 - 06/09/22 02:26 PM (16 days, 1 hour ago)

I lay the steaming hot strained grain in a thin layer on a piece of plywood and mix it around every so often for 30 minutes total so it can steam dry.


--------------------
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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27812238 - 06/09/22 03:24 PM (16 days, 36 minutes ago)

Quote:

baldur said:
Slowly getting there! One failure at a time :grin:

So on the concept of drying. How should I go about that? Dry in an oven maybe on baking trays?

I kept the oats in a colander in the fridge for a night, even more. But maybe this brand needs more drying.

Here's what BOD had to say:



I personally find that drier grains perform way better than anything too wet. I sometimes prepare lots of grain a day ahead of time let it dry in the colander for a few hours then put it in the fridge overnight. It almost seems too dry, you can't get it too dry. If I have the time I vastly prefer to make the grain on the dry side






I don't have room to spread mine out. I put them in two wire colanders, with a strong fan blowing on them. Once an hour stir them up from the bottom. I do this for 24 hours, but that includes sleeping time and going to work, so if you're around it will take maybe 8 hours.


--------------------
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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
Posts: 252
Last seen: 55 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27813107 - 06/10/22 10:33 AM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
Don't use heat to dry them as you can get them too dry, you're just not reaching that point yet with passive drying. 

The hulls on oats don't release water as easily as the surface of wheat/rye/barley so they usually take a bit longer to dry.  You want to let the grain steam off as much as possible to remove the excess moisture before it becomes trapped in the grains when they cool.  It also helps to have a fan blowing on the grain to get the moisture out of the way quicker.  For me it takes me 1-2 hours on a screen table for a sack of grain to dry enough for bagging.  I stop drying when grains don't stick to my hands while mixing them.




What is a screen table? A table made out of a fine net or something with plenty of holes?


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27813120 - 06/10/22 10:45 AM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

Yeah, that's basically it.  Mine is just a wood framed table with a window screen bottom.  I use welded wire fencing under the window screen to support the weight of the grain and the finer window screen keeps it from falling through.  You can use fans below the table to help push air through the grain and fans above to remove the moisture from the grain.


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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27813122 - 06/10/22 10:47 AM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

Sounds like a great design, I'll give this a try at some point.


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27813135 - 06/10/22 11:00 AM (15 days, 5 hours ago)

So I'm trying to dry my oats more, but now I'm starting to think that they are not really suitable, a lot of them seem to be cracked open and the mushy inside starting to show.

This is how they look after drying on the table for an hour next to a fan with frequent mixing. I boiled them for 45 minutes, drained them in a colander for 10 minutes, and then an hour on the table.

When I run my hand through them there are allot who are really sticking to my hand, mostly because they are cracked open.

Here is a picture of those who stuck to my hand:



And pictures of them drying on the table:



Seems to be quite a lot of opened oats.

And when I look at them fresh before a boil, they really don't look that good. The ends are a bit open and some are cracked already:



Should I be moving to another grain? I actually got some millet, rye and wheat that I haven't tried.


Edited by baldur (06/10/22 11:10 AM)


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OfflineBobbins
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Registered: 02/02/22
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27813160 - 06/10/22 11:26 AM (15 days, 4 hours ago)

You are over-boiling your grain, so reduce the time down. Everybody's grain source is different, so what you could do is boil for 30 mins then keep an eye on them and turn them out of the boiling water as soon as you see some have burst like that.


--------------------
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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
Posts: 252
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Bobbins]
    #27813166 - 06/10/22 11:32 AM (15 days, 4 hours ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
You are over-boiling your grain, so reduce the time down. Everybody's grain source is different, so what you could do is boil for 30 mins then keep an eye on them and turn them out of the boiling water as soon as you see some have burst like that.




Yeah I thought about that. But don't you think they look kinda bad, to begin with before the boil in the picture above?


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OnlineKROM
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Registered: 07/20/19
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27813418 - 06/10/22 03:37 PM (15 days, 23 minutes ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
Yeah, that's basically it.  Mine is just a wood framed table with a window screen bottom.  I use welded wire fencing under the window screen to support the weight of the grain and the finer window screen keeps it from falling through.  You can use fans below the table to help push air through the grain and fans above to remove the moisture from the grain.




Neat. I do something similar with an old window screen/frame that I sit on top of a big ass Rubbermaid bin with a fan inside it. It works quite well.


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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
Posts: 252
Last seen: 55 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27813801 - 06/10/22 09:21 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
Jars get 2 hours bare minimum, or even 2 and a half for me. No harm done with longer cycles and it will help kill endospores so why not? I also set my gauge on my 75x's to bounce around in the 17-20 PSI range as it self regulates, 15 PSI is a minimum.




Thanks for the advice.

Say, I've been reading that to high temperature (for Rye at least) might result in burst kernels. You've not experienced that with your higher temperatures and longer PC-ing times?


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OfflineHealing Oakland
Mushroom Co-op

Registered: 06/03/22
Posts: 131
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27813811 - 06/10/22 09:26 PM (14 days, 18 hours ago)

It's less the heat, and duration of the cycle and more your moisture content being to high. Your grains are over hydrated if it's becoming a problem for you. Dry them longer before PCing. :cheers:


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OfflineSpirit-Crusher
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Registered: 04/24/19
Posts: 314
Loc: PNW
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27816667 - 06/12/22 09:32 PM (12 days, 18 hours ago)

They add trich to the coco for cannabis plants. Look at the FAQ on that site. I learned the hard way about that too. You need bricks with nothing added to it.


EDIT. As for oat prep. Make sure the oats your using haven't been treated with fungicides. I hard boil for 45 minutes then let them sit in the sink and dry overnight.


--------------------


Edited by Spirit-Crusher (06/12/22 09:35 PM)


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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Registered: 06/03/22
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Spirit-Crusher] * 1
    #27816843 - 06/12/22 11:47 PM (12 days, 16 hours ago)

I'm not stating anything as fact here, however: trich is added to some coir brands, and while this certainly isn't desirable, the spore load for trich in the air all around us is high enough that I am not convinced it really makes a huge difference, because if your spawn is truly clean, it should beat trich. I am by no means saying that coir with added trich is inconsequential, but clean spawn can beat trich in coir, because it beats the high density of trich in the air all around us that settles into the coir during prep, and into the sub when prepped and colonizing. I am not dogmatic in my thinking, I am happy to be shown conclusive information to the contrary, but this is my current understanding and general impression on the matter.


--------------------
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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Healing Oakland]
    #27817111 - 06/13/22 07:46 AM (12 days, 8 hours ago)

Quote:

Healing Oakland said:
I'm not stating anything as fact here, however: trich is added to some coir brands, and while this certainly isn't desirable, the spore load for trich in the air all around us is high enough that I am not convinced it really makes a huge difference, because if your spawn is truly clean, it should beat trich. I am by no means saying that coir with added trich is inconsequential, but clean spawn can beat trich in coir, because it beats the high density of trich in the air all around us that settles into the coir during prep, and into the sub when prepped and colonizing. I am not dogmatic in my thinking, I am happy to be shown conclusive information to the contrary, but this is my current understanding and general impression on the matter.




I would actually be really interested in knowing how much trich is actually in the air on average. Like spore count per cubic meter of air f.x.

Also, recently I've been wondering about how careful I should be when working in my SAB. So I've been trying to get contanination in my agar plates by keeping the exposed to room-air for quite a while. And even coughing at them. And nothing so far has grown, and it's been weeks :laugh:

My lab is in a basement of a very new house, with almost no vegetation around. So that might explain the open-air experiment. But coughing on agar plates... not resulting in anything?!? I'm surprised :laugh:


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27820369 - 06/15/22 08:16 AM (10 days, 7 hours ago)

I'm starting to suspect that my grain is actually OK after all.  :grin: Would love to get some feedback on that.

This is based on two facts:

  • My new boxes from same grain spawn seems to be thriving OK (different coir and casing layer)
  • My grain spawn on Agar is looking fine IMO


So I decided to put some of the grain spawn to shoeboxes. There are two things different now:
  • Another brand of coir (UGro XL Rhiza instead of Canna Coco Natural)
  • Used a rather wet (more than FC) coir casing layer ala the SFF Shoebox Assembly TEK instead of a coir layer at FC


This is how my shoeboxes look at day 8. Speed seems normal according to what I see in the Shoebox Assembly TEK pictures, maybe a bit slower.



Also, I tried growing my grains out on agar for 8 days. Three things that I grew on agar:
  • Grains from a sterilized non-colonized jar
  • Grains from a colonized jar
  • The water from the sides of a colonized jar (should contain allot of bacteria)


Pictures of sterilized grains, not inoculated. No bacteria visible:



Pictures of colonized grains. Can't see any bacteria either:



Pictures of water from a colonized jar put on agar. Looks like just regular GT mycelium to me:



So I'm wondering what is happening here. Is my coir to blame? Can't be the wetter casing layer or that I actually suffocated the mycelium by not putting holes in my tub, can it?


Edited by baldur (06/15/22 09:01 AM)


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Offlinebaldur
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Registered: 06/30/21
Posts: 252
Last seen: 55 minutes, 19 seconds
Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27830643 - 06/21/22 06:33 PM (3 days, 21 hours ago)

Really curious to get someones opinion on last post :smile:

Shoeboxes still seem to be fine, even starting to see pinning and tiny mushrooms starting to grow in some.


Edited by baldur (06/21/22 06:34 PM)


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27830808 - 06/21/22 08:36 PM (3 days, 19 hours ago)

They look super wet in the day 8 pictures.  The tubs that you used are not the same as the 'normal' sterilite 6qt shoebox tub so they may need additional FAE since the lid seals alot better against the tub.  The 6qt shoebox tubs have a looser fitting lid that allows for FAE to passively occur with the lid on. 

I don't see any issues on the plates - do you have any fresh pics of the tubs?


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Offline6The6Despised6One
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27833278 - 06/23/22 06:47 PM (1 day, 21 hours ago)

My 1st tub I'm pretty sure failed due to the trich in the coir that I got from a hardware store coupled with improper pasteurization.
Now that I got this other coir from the pet store that was labeled as washed and heat treated, I'm seeing pins now. i pasteurized it the exact same way as my previous attempts and there's no signs of trich.
I think the good pet store brand is exo-terra and the trich containing brand from home depot was eco-earth I'll find out for sure when I get home and let you know.
But heat treated and washed might be the keywords to look for when choosing coir. (Not the chemically washed though.) I've also read where it comes from may affect salinity, my current brand is from Vietnam which would prbly make the salt content a little higher than you'd like it to be, but it's by far doing better than the trich laden home depot brand I first tried.


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