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Offlinebaldur
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Why are my monotubs failing?
    #27808754 - 06/06/22 09:13 PM (21 days, 16 hours ago)

My three tubs seem to be failing :frown:

Now on day 12 and I haven't seen any new growth for the past 4 days.

This is how they look now, just as on day 8:





Should I try to fruit them or just toss them away?

I'm mostly suspecting my coir brand. I'm using the Canna Natural Coco.

Anyone have an opinion on that? Anything else that could be causing this?

Everything seemed perfect up until now:
  • Agar was super clean and showed rhizomorphic growth.
  • Jars looked and smelled good, although they took 4-5 weeks to colonize fully (with 1-2 shakes). Used oats.
  • Used BODs easy AF bucket TEK in a cooler to create the substrate. Water was almost boiling when poured. FC achieved.
  • Temperature is 24C / 75F. RH is 36% in the room.


Edited by baldur (06/06/22 09:16 PM)


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OnlineKROM
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur] * 2
    #27808772 - 06/06/22 09:24 PM (21 days, 16 hours ago)

4-5 week quart jar colonization is quite slow, in my experience (it usually takes around two weeks for me). As such, I suspect you may have had a bacterial contamination that is causing you issues. I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about having issues with oats harbouring resilient bacteria, and I’ve been having some less than stellar results with oats recently, so that may be a potential issue. But I am not an expert, so you should wait for input from some more knowledgeable people.


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: KROM]
    #27808803 - 06/06/22 09:54 PM (21 days, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

KROM said:
4-5 week quart jar colonization is quite slow, in my experience (it usually takes around two weeks for me). As such, I suspect you may have had a bacterial contamination that is causing you issues. I’ve seen a lot of people complaining about having issues with oats harbouring resilient bacteria, and I’ve been having some less than stellar results with oats recently, so that may be a potential issue. But I am not an expert, so you should wait for input from some more knowledgeable people.




Really hope it´s not my oats since I have about 150 jars almost ready :eek:

The jars all seem to grow at the same rate though. This would suggest that either these spores all came from a slow-growing variety or all the agar plates got contamination.

Note that the spores which I used came from at least two different vendors so not the same genetics, but both were GT. But then I mixed up all the jars in the tubs, could that possibly be a problem? Unlikely.


Would it be advisable to grow a bit of the grain spawn on agar and see if I get any suspicious contamination?


Edited by baldur (06/06/22 10:02 PM)


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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: KROM]
    #27808812 - 06/06/22 10:02 PM (21 days, 15 hours ago)

:whathesaid:

Got any pictures of your spawn?  I would also think with 4-5 week colonization times that they weren't as healthy as you thought they were.  I've consistently had worse results using oats and will not use them again unless no other grains are available.

#TEAMFUCKOATS


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Offlinesan pedro guy
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: KROM]
    #27808823 - 06/06/22 10:19 PM (21 days, 15 hours ago)

What kind of tub is that? I cant see the air holes from the pics, hopefully your not suffocating them as many people do. They need fresh air ALL of the time. How wet was the coir? too wet plus no fresh air might stall it out

and like krom mentioned, the spawn might just be bad if it’s taking forever to colonize a jar


--------------------
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OfflineHealing Oakland
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: san pedro guy]
    #27808936 - 06/06/22 11:21 PM (21 days, 14 hours ago)

Ditto to :whathesaid:. Spawn straight to fruiting conditions next time, the need for an airtight colonization has been thoroughly disproven. Let them puppies breathe :smile:

Check out Pastys EZ Dial tubs, no cracked or upside down lids, no pollyfill holes, and no micropore tape. Just little holes, and spawn straight to fruiting conditions.


--------------------
Healing Oakland
The Magic Mushroom Co-operative

Are you a cultivator in or near the Bay Area?

:pm: Healing Oakland is accepting new cultivators :pm:

OAKLAND  DECRIMINALIZED



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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27808995 - 06/06/22 11:55 PM (21 days, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
:whathesaid:

Got any pictures of your spawn?  I would also think with 4-5 week colonization times that they weren't as healthy as you thought they were.  I've consistently had worse results using oats and will not use them again unless no other grains are available.

#TEAMFUCKOATS




You are probably right about the spawn :eek:, but the problem might actually be coming from my Agar I suspect. Let me elaborate a bit :smile:

I just realized that I have some jars that are at least a month old and have not been inoculated yet. They still look like the day that I removed them from the PC:



Which should indicate that my oats should not be contaminated, right?

Note that my colonized jars are quite wet on the inside, which I've read somewhere could be a hint for bacteria.

So if they are contaminated then the source should be coming from my agar I assume.

Here are some pictures of my current jars:

Batch from 11. May (26 days) - Never shaken





Batch from 4. May (33 days)







Batch from 27.4 (40 days)




Here are my filters if anyone is interested. Both polyfil and Adhesive Lid Filters 20mm Hydrophobic 0.3μm - From BeaconHillMushrooms. Note that I packed the polyfil quite tight...






Edited by baldur (06/07/22 12:03 AM)


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur] * 1
    #27808997 - 06/06/22 11:59 PM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

those are nasty jars, that is why your monotubs are failing.


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
-We are all computer data in a materialistic world-
|Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: san pedro guy]
    #27809008 - 06/07/22 12:11 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

san pedro guy said:
What kind of tub is that? I cant see the air holes from the pics, hopefully your not suffocating them as many people do. They need fresh air ALL of the time. How wet was the coir? too wet plus no fresh air might stall it out





:eek:

I thought I would be fine with closed tubs for the first 10 days since the lid is not sealed properly. Probably much more airflow than when they were in the jars...

The coir was around FC, a hard squeese resulted in just a few drops. One tub was a bit wetter, not substantially though.

I'm using IKEA Samla boxes. You think it's to late to drill some holes and see if they revive?

Link to IKEA Samla box



Here is a video showing how the lid seals to the tub.



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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27809010 - 06/07/22 12:11 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

You would think it would mean they are clean, but the way you 'see' bacteria on grains is by where the mycelium can't colonize.  Oats do funny things sometimes.   

Thats bacteria...It's not horrible, but it's there in most of those jars.  The spikey growth, the grains that refuse to colonize, liquid pooling / excess condensation all point to bacteria.  IMO the faster you can get everything colonized, the better it will perform so shake those jars a couple days after jumpoff then again after those fluff back up.  Jars that small should be easily done in 2 weeks.


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Blazer420]
    #27809014 - 06/07/22 12:15 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Blazer420 said:
those are nasty jars, that is why your monotubs are failing.




I'm curious, how do you read from this that the jars are nasty? Based on the moisture content? Could that be due to my GE filter not allowing enough airflow? I packed the polyfil quite tight... But the other filter is giving me same results so maybe that's not a problem.


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OfflineDEZn00ts
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27809015 - 06/07/22 12:15 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Anything longer than two weeks (Not even) is usually a bacteria issue.


--------------------


"it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta


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OfflineDEZn00ts
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Blazer420]
    #27809019 - 06/07/22 12:18 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Blazer420 said:
those are nasty jars, that is why your monotubs are failing.




What do you mean? They all look amazing. Probably didn't pasteurize substrate right.


--------------------


"it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: DEZn00ts]
    #27809024 - 06/07/22 12:25 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

what do you mean? Those jars are gross.. WAY 2 wet, uncolonized grains.... Pasteurizing substrate? lol you add water to coir and that is your substrate.


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
-We are all computer data in a materialistic world-
|Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|


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InvisibleBlazer420
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: DEZn00ts]
    #27809028 - 06/07/22 12:26 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

DEZn00ts said:
Anything longer than two weeks (Not even) is usually a bacteria issue.



no


--------------------
~ I used to get high on life, until I realized life was cut with morons ~
* You need 2 wake up and smell the music! *
-We are all computer data in a materialistic world-
|Sometimes you have to lose yourself, to find anything|


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27809038 - 06/07/22 12:32 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

PBJ710 said:
You would think it would mean they are clean, but the way you 'see' bacteria on grains is by where the mycelium can't colonize.  Oats do funny things sometimes.   

Thats bacteria...It's not horrible, but it's there in most of those jars.  The spikey growth, the grains that refuse to colonize, liquid pooling / excess condensation all point to bacteria.  IMO the faster you can get everything colonized, the better it will perform so shake those jars a couple days after jumpoff then again after those fluff back up.  Jars that small should be easily done in 2 weeks.




So the general consensus is that the oats are to blame. That's better than my agar technique being off! :thumbup:

So Rye and WBS, aren't these supposed to be the most successful grains?

I'm quite sure that I followed proper procedures when PC-ing. I used autoclave tape here and there to test whether the correct temp was reached for at least 20 minutes. Put it on lids... and also for a few boils I put strips of tape in the middle of the bottom middle jar (inside the grains), a jar which I then opened after PC-ing to check the tape. I'm using a pretty nice autoclave (All American Model 25x). So there must be some resilient bacteria here if they are surviving my sterilization.

One theory might be related to endospores.

Might be worth the try to soak the grains and PC longer. Any feedback on that?

I'm considering this after I read this tip in the The Essential Guide to Cultivating Mushrooms book.

QUOTE:

Thwarting Endospores: Soaking your grain for 12 to 24 hours ensures adequate hydration, but it also has another benefit: it allows bacterial endospores to germinate, and thus become more susceptible to sterilization temperatures. Pressure cooking grain is necessary because bacterial endospores can survive temperatures of 212°F (100°C). Sterilization at 250°F (121°C) for 20 minutes is required to kill these endospores. Remember that the entire contents of the jar must reach that temperature for the recommended time. The interior of the jars or bags takes longer to heat up than the outer areas, so actual cooking times must be longer than 20 minutes to ensure proper sterilization of the entire substrate. If you’re having problems with bacteria in your grain jars, you may want to try longer sterilization times and/or switching to the soaking hydration method.


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: Blazer420]
    #27809044 - 06/07/22 12:36 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Quote:

Blazer420 said:
what do you mean? Those jars are gross.. WAY 2 wet, uncolonized grains.... Pasteurizing substrate? lol you add water to coir and that is your substrate.




I used Canna Coco Natural, which is meant for plants, not much info on successful grows here on this site using that coir. But I gave it a try. Could be the reason, or at least part of it.

I'm definitely going to get another brand of coir, and try to fruit my current jars in that.

Also trying another grain...

We got work to do it seems :grin:


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OfflineDEZn00ts
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: PBJ710]
    #27809046 - 06/07/22 12:38 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Yea I don't do oats, I do WBS.I think I see issues with one jar MAYBE but uncolonized LOOKING parts up against glass doesn't necessarily mean contam and water definitely does not. I don't know where you learned that shit.


--------------------


"it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta


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Offlinebaldur
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27809047 - 06/07/22 12:38 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

I might add that there was a slight sweet smell of all of the jars. But I don't know how they should smell...

The smell was a bit different from when I was doing PF-TEK, but that's different ingredients anyway. 

Somewhere I read that sweet and sour were a bad sign...

:hmm:


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OfflineDEZn00ts
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Re: Why are my monotubs failing? [Re: baldur]
    #27809048 - 06/07/22 12:40 AM (21 days, 13 hours ago)

Yea I don't do oats, I do WBS.I think I see issues with one jar MAYBE but uncolonized LOOKING parts up against glass doesn't necessarily mean contam and water definitely does not. I don't know where you learned that shit.
Quote:

baldur said:
I might add that there was a slight sweet smell of all of the jars. But I don't know how they should smell...

The smell was a bit different from when I was doing PF-TEK, but that's different ingredients anyway. 

Somewhere I read that sweet and sour were a bad sign...

:hmm:




Yea loool that's bad. If you see anything that doesn't look like mycelium trash them. Blazer is most likely right seeing as I can't speak on grain too much.


--------------------


"it's genetic. Asians are better at math if born in America or Asia. Black people run faster born in Africa or America. White people are still more racist no matter where they were born either. it's genetic." -bodhisatta


Edited by DEZn00ts (06/07/22 12:43 AM)


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