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OfflineRobertJPaulson
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Registered: 06/05/22
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Paneolus Cultivation issues
    #27806787 - 06/05/22 09:47 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Hello,
Back to growing after a hiatus of 15 years or so, wanted to start with some Pans, because they were my favorite back then.  I got the Thailand "Goliath" variety.
But, I must have forgotten some of the particularities of the Pan variety, because Im having a hell of a time.  First, the mycelium grows on the grain, then I break the grains up in the bag, and this seems to hurt the growth.  It seems like over time, less and less mycelium forms, until I just put it in the manure because I assume its as ready as its going to get.
Then, nothing happens, the manure just sours and the grain seems "dead". 
Am I waiting too long to put grain to manure?  Or, I heard that shaking the mycelium randomizes it and causes the strains to fight?
Anyone who regularly grows Pans, how do you deal with these issues?

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Offlineholybrown101
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Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 150
Last seen: 2 months, 18 days
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: RobertJPaulson]
    #27806802 - 06/05/22 10:03 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

im always had the same issue with pans. Only got lucky once with spore to grain... You're best best is to isolate on agar with the fastest growth. Anything less than slow cube growth... just  start over untill you have fast growing mycelium. Also pans cyans always like more gas exchange than cubes might want to look into different filters etc. Hope this helps.

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InvisibleZifozonke
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Registered: 03/24/19
Posts: 1,261
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: holybrown101]
    #27806951 - 06/05/22 12:31 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Check out Angams link on growing pans without grain
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26293989

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OfflineRobertJPaulson
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Registered: 06/05/22
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: holybrown101]
    #27807372 - 06/05/22 06:33 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

thanks a lot, I was figuring that agar was a necessary step for pans, well almost necessary anyways.  Ill try that.
As far as the gas exchange, I never got it to fruiting.  I just checked on it a few days after I mixed the grain with the manure substrate, and there was no development.  But thanks for the tip.

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OfflineHindsight
Mad Scientist
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Registered: 01/24/21
Posts: 2,706
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: RobertJPaulson]
    #27807917 - 06/06/22 06:14 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Yes definitely use agar and select for the best and fastest growth. I would suggest jars with SFDs on the lids instead of bags for grains. Bags work but are more difficult to get right and IMHO you should nail your grow down with jars before moving on to bags. Shaking grain spawn is fine, but do know the mycelium looks different than cubes - fainter.

Be sure to pasteurize your substrate. I suggest an equal part mix of straw/verm/manure. Hydrate to field capacity and pasteurize for at least 2 hours (I do 12) then let it age in the bag for 3-5 days for the beneficial bacteria to have time to do it’s thing. Spawn at a ratio of 1:3-1:4, and ensure you have a very thin top layer of sub to keep your grains covered. If done right, you should see full surface colonization within 7 days - 4 to 5 being ideal. They colonize very quickly.

Stop by the cultivating Panaeolus thread. That’s where most pan growers hang out.

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OfflineRobertJPaulson
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Registered: 06/05/22
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: Hindsight]
    #27808652 - 06/06/22 05:52 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Ill check it out. 
Its strange, I thought bags would be easier, since they are fitted with a breather, and you can manipulate the grains much more thoroughly.  What is the factor that makes bags tougher to get right than jars?

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OfflineRobertJPaulson
Stranger
Registered: 06/05/22
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
Re: Paneolus Cultivation issues [Re: Hindsight]
    #27808668 - 06/06/22 06:07 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Also, now that I think about it, since you're saying to let the pasteurized substrate 'do its thing' for 3-5 days, that tells me that the grain had some kind of bacterial infection. 
I think I let it get too hot during incubation maybe.  Because I didnt let the pasteurized stuff do anything, I just mixed it as soon as it was cool. 
Is that perhaps why the mycelium was dying, and not the grain shaking?

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