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 Aaladorn
member
Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 262
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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 Re: High dose tripping essentials  [Re: gdman]
#2774375 - 06/08/04 10:14 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I agree, such strong fears of a bad trip will do nothing but help you have a bad trip. Try figuring out whats making you have a bad trip and try fixing it, otherwise I think you're going to always rely on these secondary drugs. And if you trip so hard that you just can't deal with anything, maybe high doses are not for you.
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Aaladorn]
#2774495 - 06/08/04 11:15 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well, Im just happy that I had them left over, its not like I was planning to go through what I went and in the end I was able to cope with it, even though it never went good.
Ride it out, you guys are nuts... Theres nothing like being responsible, because you know exactly what the drug can do, instead of saying ill deal with it when it happens. Have you ever had a bad trip that wont end or read the stories??? This is a precautionary suggestion, if you want to ride out your bad trip on high doses thats not my problem, im just trying to help people from hating tripping completly after a bad trip. Or calling the police, or contacting family. What you guys see as 'its your own fault', I see as.. avoidable.
And whoever said that your afraid of the trip? This is just in case you have one, eg planning ahead.
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 gdman
badger, badger,badger...
Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2774528 - 06/08/04 11:30 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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yes, I've had my share of powerful, ego shattering expiriances, I still say you have to ride it out, and don't just sit ther bugging change your setting, lighting, music. Have a trip sittier who is expirianced if your not and dose reponsibly. You have nothing to prove.
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Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
- Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess
"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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nickelpenny
journeyman
Registered: 05/20/04
Posts: 61
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: gdman]
#2775598 - 06/08/04 06:17 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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I wouldnt be eating shrooms if i was scared shitless of maybe someday having a bad trip.
Its just a risk that i'm willing to take.
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nickelpenny
journeyman
Registered: 05/20/04
Posts: 61
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: nickelpenny]
#2775629 - 06/08/04 06:23 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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anyway..if you want to be prepared for a high dose trip..you could maybe eat a gram or two less a few weeks before dosing the other massive dose. This could help you be prepared if you havent tripped in a long time.
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Iamthewalrus
every evening Idied and everynight I wasreborn
Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 3,744
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: gdman]
#2776367 - 06/08/04 10:48 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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just because YOU like to ride out bad trips does not mean this is the way its supposed to be
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Iamthewalrus]
#2776588 - 06/09/04 12:00 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Remember, some trips cant be controlled, its not like you can shut off the big body load that comes with it. Sometimes its not all in your head, but what the trip does is play with your deteriorating body load only to the worse. This only continues to get worse, and at the best you can relax only to feel very uncomfortable with your physical condition, which will always lead to having your mind go back into hell. If you think riding it out is the thing to do, thats your problem. I on the other hand would like to see people not have to go through hell, even if they worked their way up, it still can happen.
And this isnt about paranoia of a bad trip, its just obtaining some pills in case, just think of is as another drug to do later on. And if it goes bad well its there...
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 6 months, 9 days
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2777188 - 06/09/04 06:58 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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a possible alternative to tranks (& esp to barbs, sheesh...) might be:
(ta-da)
NIACINAMIDE
just having something that can slow things down (or turn things off, if need be) makes it less likely that "the fear" will getcha...
heh...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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psikooz
Stranger
Registered: 07/19/03
Posts: 1,023
Loc: Los Angeles
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: gnrm23]
#2777246 - 06/09/04 07:43 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Not very copacetic.
all i need, is my brain, and my self. Ive gone to the depths of hell and conquered the universe. I dont need a way to "get out" of a trip. No one does.You have to make it through yourself. Because truthfully the only fear that you have is the fear that you created for your own self.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2777290 - 06/09/04 08:09 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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All i need for a good experience is a spliff to goto sleep and music and a mirror while im tripping.
Looking in the mirror is amazing really
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Chronic7]
#2777472 - 06/09/04 09:32 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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None of you must have had the type of bad trip that Im talking about, because you cant conquer all trips, it must just be that some of us get into trips that there is no cure from by yourself. Maybe some of us have some heart troubles and some mental problems that otherwise wouldnt cause us any problems, but to think you can change it after the duration it has been going on, or just somehow endure it is ridiculus in my eyes. Maybe the post about inducing a bad trip was correct, and some should delve into it to see the power of these drugs, it is not all a mentally controllable situation, there are other factors. It does not just effect your head, it effects your entire body.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 7 days
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2777570 - 06/09/04 10:00 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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> None of you must have had the type of bad trip that Im talking about, because you cant conquer all trips
> must just be that some of us get into trips that there is no cure from by yourself
Learn to surrender to the trip... bad trips come from fighting what is happening.
> some of us have some heart troubles and some mental problems
People with medical conditions should not be tripping, regardless.
> It does not just effect your head, it effects your entire body.
Mind over body...
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Just another spore in the wind.
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gdman
badger, badger,badger...
Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2777664 - 06/09/04 10:42 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's called a trip for a reason, I will not argue with you anymore:
To fathom hell or soar angelic, Just take a pinch of psychedelic.
-Humphry Osmond
It's the yin and the yang, the bad and the good, you must learn to accept this or you doom any future trips.
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Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
- Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess
"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: gdman]
#2777733 - 06/09/04 11:15 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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The drug effects the mind and body... you cant make you pupiles undialate can you?
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gdman
badger, badger,badger...
Registered: 12/10/02
Posts: 16,286
Loc: Dancing In the Streets
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2778001 - 06/09/04 01:18 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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you can't controle all aspects of it, but one thing you certainly can controle is your mindset, even if you are sent through a profound egoloss, you'll come out alive on the other side. There is a fucking reason why they call it a trip.
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Got a question about a substance? Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the mushroom experience? The Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
- Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess
"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: gdman]
#2778164 - 06/09/04 02:22 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Yes ;o, I know what a trip is, and I know youll come out alive, but its quite different when your experiencing it. Sometimes your body fuels your mind, if your body is running fast and wont stop, it means your mind can only relax for a certain number of minutes at a time.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Redo]
#2779439 - 06/09/04 09:06 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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***None of you must have had the type of bad trip that Im talking about, because you cant conquer all trips***
No, No, No, No !
Do not let yourself be swayed by consensus. Consensus used to be the earth was flat and who thought otherwise should be burned at the stake.
Well.. just like you I have burnt at the stake. Thats not the candysweet "frying", its not a strong anxiety attack or even a bout of severe psychogenic asthma.
It is way beyond that, and how you deal with that will make the difference between a successful trip, a marginal trip, or coming down with generalized anxiety disorder or post-traumatic stress disorder. (aka. war-vet "shell shock")
If you do not fight the trip you will not go psychiatric and come down with GAD or PTSD if you're sufficiently traumatized.
And that is true. 100% true.
Accepting the any & all and you will come out healthy.
Accepting the any & all..
When will people finally accept that some experiences for some people on some times are -that- raw that you just can NOT surrender to it.
You're sneaking through the jungle, weary for tripwires, keeping the shit out of your M-16. And suddenly, out of nowhere, there is the bright flash, the jet airplane-like roar and you're showered with splatter and shreds of your buddy who was watching your back.
PTSD.
Now you can say: "hey he should have gone with the flow, then he would have no problem" but all of a sudden severe psychotraumatic circumstances are recognized as possibly "too much".
What's the gruesome death of a buddy compared to very personal Ego-Death experiences one is equally unprepared for?
Any high-dose mushroom veteran who thinks the war example was exaggerated has simply had not had a -severely agonized trip- because they can well be as devastating. Some war vets get through this with few problems later on while some mushroom users get fucked up severely for years.
Sometimes you can NOT "go with" excruciating mental agonies.
At that moment, you just can't.
Any tripper who is in posession of suitable tranquilizers is less then intelligent if he doesnt pack em on any trip, just in case. The only suitable tranquilizers are "Benzo"diazepines. Do NOT under any circumstances introduce barbiturates or antipsychotics during the trip. A sober trip guide well-versed in mental illness can decide if these must be deployed but not somebody who's in a state where tranqs are needed.
These are the BENZODIAZEPINES:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/uspdi/202084.html
Every tripper in the group should have his own dose handy and ought to be able to take them, at any moment, no questions asked.
A tripper shouldn't have more tranqs then pose an acceptable, calculated risk.
This would be the doses given above (the MEDLINE link) that are the maximum doses for *starting out* on anxiety, panic or sleep-inducing meds. These will fall between the equivalent of 5-30mg Diazepam. (valium) with 10-20mg usually being highly effective even on doses as high as 1/8 to 1/4 of cubies.
Chew the pill and hold under the tongue or at least in the mouth for some minutes for rapid effects. This is basically the backbone of ER bad trip intervention.
You will not be lifted from a bad trip, not at all. But the reduction of your anxiety because of the Benzos can make you feel safe enough to actually surrender and emerge victorious from peril, instead of fight and go DSM IV for weeks or months.
Now you should really do some soulsearching. Why on earth push the envelope by taking big doses which got you in such trouble before? Even half an eighth can get you as deeply into trouble as 1/4, its just likely to be *more managable* and not all, most in fact, are not positively affected by a high-dose regimen.
Shulgin only recommends psilocybin at doses up to 20mg at most.. how come you are taking 40-80 in those 1/4 of mushrooms?
Most people will get royally in trouble on 1/4 (7 dried grams) quite reliably. If it pushes real hard *and* you resist real hard, you might come down with psychiatric symptoms for quite a while.
If you are not ready to let steel hooks be driven into your flesh and you being hoisted up in the air by them like they do in India, you are NOT ready to take on 1/4 of mushrooms. Really.
I am more ready for the hooks then for 1/4 of strong mushrooms.
Definitely. I wouldn't nearly hesitate half as long over the hooks, if they just drive em deep enough so my 250+lbs won't tear out of em.
For the next couple of months.. absolutely no 1/4 for me.
It would be unhealthy.
I am currently fully engaged into the ego-death process.
Without any drug at all I get quite physical cues its time to meditate. In these meditations I get overcome by vivid dying sequences, reliving my near-death at the ICU and all bad shit from all times, lose sight and go -blind- until the very second I accept it..
And everytime I emerge victorious and have left more garbage behind me. Its hard, extremely hard. Its getting harder until I finally accept the unacceptable. Inside or outside of a psychedelic session.
I will make it. Absolutely.
Its not an "unhealthy LSD freak flasback thing" but I have come to the realisation my entire life pointed towards this symbolic shedding of my woes.
Its all symbolic. There is no danger in even the most severe bodily symptoms as they are gone the second I accept and feel them to their full intensity. Its pent-up resistance against Life itself. I will get there. Definitely. On LSD or a peanut butter sandwich  Don't worry on my behalf: i'm actively solving my biggest problems
But I wont take high doses until I'm "clear" because I'm getting there with the slightest nudge and the *excessive* generic psychedelic effect of a fat dose would make it much harder if not impossible to surrender, as too much mushroom adds an additional anxiety to the process which is unneeded for its resolution, and for me plainly detrimental to achieving my goal.
In for a Penny, In for a Pound!
.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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Redo
CTA
Registered: 04/13/04
Posts: 1,296
Last seen: 18 years, 8 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Asante]
#2780581 - 06/10/04 07:52 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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^^ very good post,
Antipsychotics no, barbituates yes. Benzos act in almost the same exact was as barbs do, just benzos are much safer when taking alot of them.
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Viveka
refutation bias
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Asante]
#2781300 - 06/10/04 11:28 AM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you are not ready to let steel hooks be driven into your flesh and you being hoisted up in the air by them like they do in India, you are NOT ready to take on 1/4 of mushrooms. Really.
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Asante
Omnicyclion prophet
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 87,330
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Re: High dose tripping essentials [Re: Viveka]
#2786194 - 06/11/04 07:53 PM (19 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey I see you when you get there.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, identity crisis, Psychosis, severe Flashbacks, Dissociative disorders, nervous breakdown, Depersonalisation disorders, Generalized Anxiety disorder, major Depressive episode, chronic insomnia, HPPD, loss of mental focus, abuse of hard drugs to numb mental anguish, and Bipolars, Epileptics and people predisposed to psychotic disorders thrown off-balance are all to be found on these forums, and al in one way or another implicate several or one specific mushroom trip that tipped them over an edge they often didnt know they were at.
Either these are spineless people copping out of riding it out... or perhaps something did happen to them which eclipsed any severity you've ever experienced.
Some folks dont just disappear from the boards because they lose interest, but because they are thrown mentally offline beyond a www login. One in ten people is in the danger zone for a serious mental episode even without psychedelics.
If you think comparing high dose tripping to getting hooked & hoisted India style is thats your problem.
John Lennon achieved "ego loss" through LSD and needed a year, a highly unpleasant year, to piece himself together again and was quite bitter about the Leary book "The Psychedelic Experience" which advocated high doses of LSD, Psilocybin and Mescaline and basically throwing yourself in. In a radio interview he referred to it as "that stupid book".
Psychedelics, and especially high doses, are a -very serious matter- that needs deep soulsearching. I chose psychedelics, but I chose to pursue their path knowing full well that they might bring agonies as intense as steel hooks through flesh.
On the Intensive Care Unit of my local hospital I almost died many times over, especially in the night of 27-28 December 2002. That heart attack was my Rite of Passage, my hooks-through-flesh, and going in and out of biological death sequences was accompanied by the very same feelings, of the very same intensity, then in many of my sessions. Yes. half-an-eight can grip you every bit as hard and though symbolic that will feel every bit as real, and intense, to you as your actual biological death.
I can say that.
I have been there, with swift medical interventions keeping death at bay. Those "shrooms" were there for me, even though my last session was weeks earlier. Their lessons helped me to make up the balance of my life until I was ready to peacefully die should Death have come that night. Mushrooms are a life's decision beyond our comprehension.
*Physically dying *
Rite of Passage.. know what you may be getting yourself into.
.
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Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here
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