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OfflineTheTimelessDon
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Registered: 03/19/22
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Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A
    #27797198 - 05/29/22 01:22 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Been searching the threads all day, only to end up just as confused. 

Just looking for the simple 2022 answer to:  Does cutting your fruit before drying, either in the middle or into pieces, affect potency what-so-ever?  Exposing more surface area to more points of oxidization? 

If Yes: Understandably, we need to get our fruiting body dry as quickly as possible - so on larger fruits, we need to cut them up because whatever loss of potency we get from cutting, is worth it in order to dry the fruit as quickly as possible?  And leaving smaller fruits in tact is much better as long as we get them dry asap as usual?

If No: Even the smallest of fruits can benefit from cutting and getting more dry, more quickly?  The major loss is in aesthetics because they look so much better whole?

If We Just Don't Know:  How come?  lol

I think I understand the general benchmark but as I'm just cutting some stems, and not others, and trying to get everything to dry evenly ... it just makes me wonder ... and there's only one place to find such an answer.  - If I'm really asking a question at all here... lol.  You know what I'm saying??  Help?!

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InvisibleBoozie
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: TheTimelessDon]
    #27797214 - 05/29/22 01:51 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Not in any way you’d notice.

They will consistently lose potency when exposed to oxygen, regardless of when and how they’re sliced. But again, unless you’re closely monitoring the psilocybin : psilocin ratios/levels, you won’t notice a difference, whether you cut one in half then dry it or the other way around.

That being said, don’t just leave ‘em dry, on the counter for a week or two and expect the same potency as if you were to dry immediately and vac-seal.


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"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley


   

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OfflinePBJ710
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: Boozie]
    #27797221 - 05/29/22 02:28 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Simply slicing a large fruit in half is often enough to greatly speed drying as it opens the previously sealed inside of the fruit to direct hot air flow instead of having to pull the moisture in the middle all the way through the meat of the fruit.  I bet you could even slit the stipe down 1 side and get similar results. 

That being said I only cut fruits if they are too fat to cram in the dehydrator.  It may dry quicker cut up small, but it stores better as larger pieces.

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OfflineTheTimelessDon
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: PBJ710]
    #27797227 - 05/29/22 03:02 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

These are great replies so far!

Before it gets too off topic though - assuming everything else is just fine and we are looking very closely.  Not trying to notice the effects.  Does cutting it down the stem, or anywhere.... Is that whole process of exposing the extra surface area...going to begin the degradation of potency faster?  Setting everything else aside...

Oooo, maybe I should have taken the whole drying factor out of the equation entirely... but I'll add it in after the fact.  Does this make sense?  If it isn't so simple, please post links to some studies and I would be happy to read them. 

Thank you!

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OfflineBobbins
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: TheTimelessDon]
    #27797240 - 05/29/22 03:24 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Psilobin oxidises (the blue bruising), we assume this is 100% lost in dried fruits. Psilocybin is less prone to oxidisation and it is this we are preserving.

This is why liberty caps preserve so well, they are something like 99% psilocybin, whereas cubes are around (from memory) 80% psilocybin, hence why they are stronger/different when taken fresh - the Psilobin is still present and available, and liberty caps don't bruise blue.

These percentages can be looked up if you are interested in the true figures (before I get inevitably corrected).


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DeALeRsHrOoMs

Edited by Bobbins (05/29/22 03:25 AM)

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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: Bobbins]
    #27797245 - 05/29/22 03:33 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
(before I get inevitably corrected)




Here we are,
you mean psilocin, not psilobin :toast:

      :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleBoozie
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: Bobbins]
    #27797251 - 05/29/22 03:50 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Bobbins said:
Psilobin oxidises (the blue bruising), we assume this is 100% lost in dried fruits. Psilocybin is less prone to oxidisation and it is this we are preserving.

This is why liberty caps preserve so well, they are something like 99% psilocybin, whereas cubes are around (from memory) 80% psilocybin, hence why they are stronger/different when taken fresh - the Psilobin is still present and available, and liberty caps don't bruise blue.

These percentages can be looked up if you are interested in the true figures (before I get inevitably corrected).




:whoawut:

Good gravy.


--------------------
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley


   

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OfflineTheTimelessDon
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: Bobbins]
    #27798075 - 05/29/22 04:49 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Just a quick bump cause I posted originally at 3am and not many people on.  I think Bobbins is getting me closer if not almost there, thank you... I still have the simple question though... Tell me how I'm doing so far...

My understanding now is that no matter how you cut the fruit, we are losing all psilocin during the drying stage.  Leave it whole, or dice into 20 pieces, or whatever - once dry, we lose psilocin. 

The psilocybin is less prone to oxidization, but not immune, so yes - being exposed to oxygen for any amount of time is going to begin the oxidization and degradation of potency.  Thus, we dry quickly...

So would the answer to the cutting/dicing question be yes?  or no?  Based on the fact that exposing more surface area to this oxidization process, is potentially problematic?  Or is it necessary?  Is cutting a smaller mushroom to dry it quicker, better?  Or leaving it whole as it dries is better?  Is 100 small pieces dried in 1 hour better than 1 piece dried in 10 hour?  Remember, this is not a question about drying times...  Just the cutting alone, aside from all other factors.

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InvisibleBoozie
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: TheTimelessDon]
    #27798287 - 05/29/22 08:23 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Problematic? No. Necessary? Hell, sometimes.

Say you have a nice, chonky 50+g fruit, super dense. I'd much rather slice it down the middle and dry it in pieces so it finishes around the same time as the rest of the bunch. Will cutting it effect it's overall potency? I mean, I guess? But it'll be negligible, and certainly nothing to lose sleep over. +/- a couple hours in the dehydrator ain't gonna break the bank either way. The storage afterward is much more important.

The whole potency-loss question in general is going to be tough to answer though. Unless you've spent A LOT of time truly isolating something you know has consistent potency/alkaloid levels, you're going to get a ton of variations from fruit to fruit, grow to grow, etc. ...but all this would make for a very cool/fun experiment for certain. :trippinballs:

To go back to what Bobbins was saying about Libs (and similar).. Higher initial psilocybin levels will inevitably lead to more potent dried fruits. It's more stable than psilocin from the jump, and is converted to psilocin in the body anyhow.

Honestly I wouldn't overthink it. Cut 'em up if you feel like it, or leave 'em. Just give them a nice vac-seal afterwards.

:twocents:


--------------------
"After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." - Aldous Huxley


   

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OfflineCocaineBuffet
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: Boozie] * 1
    #27798306 - 05/29/22 08:37 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Your potency is not impacted by where you cut the fruit. Going above and beyond to mutilate the fruit you neglect the long term storage will be able to hinder potency.

The more you mutilate and delaying the drying fruits fully will impact it's effects. Just dry immediately after harvest and store correctly.

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OfflineTheTimelessDon
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Re: Cutting and Drying :Potency: Simple Q&A [Re: CocaineBuffet]
    #27798402 - 05/29/22 10:03 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Boozie said:
Will cutting it effect it's overall potency? I mean, I guess? But it'll be negligible





Quote:

CocaineBuffet said:
Your potency is not impacted by where you cut the fruit.





Here is where the confusion lies, because this is two different answers...  Every other word is considering in other factors and life experiences, which I appreciate that!  But I am hunting for the binary, yes or no answer.  ...OR  Do we really just not know this answer as humans yet with the limited research we have?  I would totally accept that answer too...

Assume I'm researching everything with an atomic force microscope... Scientifically... The answer will eventually be yes or no once we have the proper research.  Even negligible to 1 trillionth of a percent.... Science would call that a yes.  A hundred other factors go into the degradation and ways to ruin fruits?  Of course there is!  Forget all that for juuust a second.

My question is if this research exists already and that can go to support the main/other reasons I have for asking.  I'm trying to sort out certain facts(and myths) as I'm learning as much as I can about this hobby, and this answer will help my quest through the entire journey.

Thanks in advance for your time

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