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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
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The Great *DELETED* * 2
    #27794686 - 05/27/22 05:14 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: delete false

Edited by djbabyjesus (09/03/23 09:01 PM)

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #27794703 - 05/27/22 05:43 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I really hope they figure out what this is. Woodlovers grow wild in huge numbers, too bad they can do this somteimes.

WLP sounds horrifying. It's why I won't take them and don't grow them. I just gave away the last of my WL spores today. (I also have a heart condition, so I don't wanna fuck with something that isn't understood).

I found a post on here the other night that I wish I could find again. Was from 19 years ago, a guy describing what was clearly WLP. No one knew what it was. That guy hadn't been on here for 19 years either. It looks like maybe it turned him off the shroommery (and probably shrooms) for good.

If you're ever looking for old posts on here, also search
wood lovers syndrome
that's what it's sometimes called on older posts.

this it the oldest thread I can find now mentioning it, also from 19 years ago. Apparently it wasn't widely know then, this thread even has someone basically saying "sounds like bullshit made up by government researches to scare us off shrooms." Azurescens and Muscle Paralysis

This thread from 13 years ago:
cyanescens paralysis
someone who doesn't know what it is is suggesting that the person picked wrong, poison, shrooms.

Someone else is calling him stupid for eating them.

The OP is thinking it might be pesticide used near the shrooms poisoning him.

The OP on that one also says something about fertilizer leaking into the are where the shrooms grow. They're thinking that poisoned them, but might be what you're talking about. A lot of plant fertilizer is phosphorous / potassium (and nitrogen.)

Edited by nektar61 (05/27/22 05:53 AM)

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: nektar61]
    #27794710 - 05/27/22 05:54 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Did you see the video by freshcap on YouTube?



You know this is all speculative right?
And that people are more likely to agree with something if specifically asked? They call it leading in court but doesn't really get recognized in the scientific county when surveys are involved.

Edited by QM33 (05/27/22 05:56 AM)

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Offlineiggycrop
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: QM33]
    #27794729 - 05/27/22 06:23 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone ever heard of Ovoids causing WLP?

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: iggycrop]
    #27794803 - 05/27/22 07:51 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

iggycrop said:
Has anyone ever heard of Ovoids causing WLP?





no. Have you had that happen?

QM33; got a link? Fresh Cap has a lot of videos and I've only seen a couple.

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InvisibleQM33
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: nektar61]
    #27794816 - 05/27/22 08:08 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)




Newest stuff out ATM. Still too speculative for me. Idk I think they even said something like "well this one chemicals does this, so this might do this" and idk...


Thoughts on that video anyone?


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis *DELETED* [Re: QM33] * 1
    #27795364 - 05/27/22 04:23 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: false

Edited by djbabyjesus (06/02/22 02:16 PM)

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27795503 - 05/27/22 06:24 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:

"sounds like bullshit made up by government researches to scare us off shrooms." 

The OP is thinking it might be pesticide used near the shrooms poisoning him.

The OP on that one also says something about fertilizer leaking into the are where the shrooms grow. They're thinking that poisoned them, but might be what you're talking about. A lot of plant fertilizer is phosphorous / potassium (and nitrogen.)




Its more like real :glittershitz: made up by mycologists the government hired to find a way to clean up phosphorous rich waste from upstream. Round up, fertilizers, and even sarin gas can be phosphorylated and rendered inert by wood lovers as well as amanitas and probably a large number of the mushrooms found around the mouth of the Columbia. I'd be surprised to hear there had been no attempt to naturally clean up the river. Mushrooms are the logical answer.

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27795644 - 05/27/22 07:39 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
Ya, I saw the video....Most of the video is information from these two threads. They kinda shit on the shroomery ....How could they down play the very real dangers of a drug in the name of mycophobia and harm reduction at the same time...wtf...




Most (if not almost all) YouTube shroom gurus are just parroting things said on Shroomery, usually info from TCs and others who've been on here for a decade or more.

Shroomery, plus Advanced Search set to just the past 4 years, and looking at TCs/ people who should be TCs, is the motherlode of info. (Unless you're trying to do something like find out how long people have talked about Woodlover's Paralysis, then set it to longer.)

Most info out there is just dilutions of (and sometimes pissing on) that.

Edited by nektar61 (05/28/22 01:24 AM)

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis *DELETED* [Re: nektar61]
    #27796419 - 05/28/22 12:52 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: locations

Edited by djbabyjesus (05/28/22 04:18 PM)

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27796899 - 05/28/22 08:48 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

djbabyjesus said:
Quote:

nektar61 said:
Most (if not almost all) YouTube shroom gurus are just parroting things said on Shroomery, usually info from TCs and others who've been on here for a decade or more.






AND profiting from it. ....




Some TC on here addressed it on a thread about Willy Myco (who gives HORRIBLE, WRONG advice all the time and makes 2000 + bucks a month on Patreon).

The TCs said something like "I don't mind these YouTube guys making money off of what they crib from Shroomery, I mind having to explain over and over why it's wrong after their students fail and come on Shroomery spreading misinfo."

Worse yet is Reddit, even the Shroomery reddit there (that I don't think has anything to do with Shroomery.org, maybe did but doesn't). It's like 5000 Willy Mycos. I said:

I'm loving all the noobs absolutely kicking ass on here (Shroomery.org) lately. Shows what happens if you read and follow the teks (to the letter), the ones written by the old heads. (I didn't do that until I was here nearly a year.)

Whereas on Reddit, the noobs grow mold, then sit around and bitch about how "Shroomery is a bunch of old people who aren't open to new ideas." (and then give 1500 upvotes to 4 anemic shrooms growing out of potting soil and candy)

I guess Old > Mold.
=-=-
djbabyjesus: I'm loving that you're approaching the WLP issue scientifically, and offering info. I won't join this research, cubes are wild enough for me. But thank you, and I'm following this thead.

Edited by nektar61 (05/28/22 08:58 PM)

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Invisiblefungusul
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27799631 - 05/30/22 10:11 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

:threadmonitor:

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: fungusul] * 1
    #27800941 - 05/31/22 10:36 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:


The TCs said something like "I don't mind these YouTube guys making money off of what they crib from Shroomery, I mind having to explain over and over why it's wrong after their students fail and come on Shroomery spreading misinfo."






I think when he talked about not wanting to spread "mycophobia", he really meant he didn't want to be "demonetized" by YouTube.:buzzaldrin:

Edited by djbabyjesus (09/12/23 09:03 AM)

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Offlinenektar61S
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27801013 - 06/01/22 12:27 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Thank you for doing that.

Another thought, some meds that have antihistamines also have sudafed-type drugs or some other cold med that would NOT be good to take while shrooming, especially if you have any paralysis, but even if not.

That shit jacks your blood pressure and heart rate. Would just make everything far worse.

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: nektar61] * 1
    #27802210 - 06/02/22 02:25 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nektar61 said:
Thank you for doing that.

Another thought, some meds that have antihistamines also have sudafed-type drugs or some other cold med that would NOT be good to take while shrooming, especially if you have any paralysis, but even if not.

That shit jacks your blood pressure and heart rate. Would just make everything far worse.




That's a good point. Probably advisable to stick to single ingredient medications to limit complications.

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 341
Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #27802225 - 06/02/22 03:23 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

One goal of this thread is to reduce wood lovers paralysis by adjusting the nutrient profile of the substrate. When I feed plants a 2:1 Nitrogen:Phosphorous ratio... they grow taller, thiner and their is more room in-between branches(nodes). If I reverse the ratio of N to P than I'll get robust, thicker, more compact plants with less room between nodes. Nutrients effect the biosynthesis of plant hormones and thus regulate plant architecture.

Here is a few examples of a patch with known WLP, potential pesticide spraying, and exposure from runoff...This place produces lots of multi fruit specimens as well as other high phosphorous looking specimens.





A quick search reveals: Fungi also produce compounds that are similar to plant hormones, such as auxins, cytokinins (CKs), gibberellic acids (GAs), ethylene (ET), abscisic acid (ABA), jasmonic acid (JA) and salicylic acid (SA)


In theory, we should also be able to effect the physical architecture of the mushroom by adjusting the nutrient profile and/or though supplementation of hormones used by the mushroom to regulate growth patterns.

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis *DELETED* [Re: djbabyjesus] * 1
    #27802778 - 06/02/22 02:55 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Post deleted by djbabyjesus

Reason for deletion: delete

Edited by djbabyjesus (06/03/22 03:44 AM)

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InvisibleThe Thing
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27803462 - 06/02/22 10:31 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

:threadmonitor:

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OfflineLadyboner swordfi
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: The Thing]
    #27803559 - 06/03/22 12:24 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Thing said:
:threadmonitor:






I saw WLP on google stories a few months ago, the article made it sound veryyyy unpleasant and dangerous because what if it hit you while walking on the rd at night.
In that case yes you could die that's why location and good company are so important while on an experience as well as research from notes like this.


I've also heard mushrooms can asorbs chems from plant roots, plants produce myriads of phytochems
Plants also effect the nutrients in the soil, some plants prefer certain soils.

That may be a possible natural correlation(s) to explain wlp.


I can fully believe anything exposed to roundup an and fertilizers eaten will fuck up your life wrong.
Thats just common sense.


Good hunting!:butcher:


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27803667 - 06/03/22 03:30 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

From: What Are Plant Auxins? And How Do They Affect Plant Growth? By Kaitlyn Ersek


"Auxins are a powerful growth hormone produced naturally by plants. They are found in shoot and root tips and promote cell division, stem and root growth. They can also drastically affect plant orientation by promoting cell division to one side of the plant in response to sunlight and gravity.



Auxins Have Four Key Effects On Plant Growth:

Stimulating shoot elongation – Auxins positively influence gibberlins that promote cell elongation. This increases plant length. Essentially, gibberlins and thereby auxins, increase the distance between nodes, spacing the branch points further apart.


auxinControlling seedling orientation –

It was the infamous Charles Darwin and his son Francis who first noticed that seedlings bend toward the light. However, whether a new shoot grows into the soil or towards light, depends on where auxins are located and how they influence cells within the plant. Auxins will move downward due to gravity and laterally, away from light. Cells grow more in areas of the plant where auxins are highly concentrated.

Stimulating root branching – When an auxin is applied to a cut stem, the stem will initiate roots at the cut.

Promoting fruit development – Auxins in the flower promote maturation of the ovary wall and promote steps in the full development of the fruit.

Auxins can be produced naturally (by the plant) or synthetically (in a lab). When produced synthetically, they can be used in high concentrations as a pesticide, causing drastic growth. The herbicide, 2-4-D, is an example of an auxin-based pesticide, specifically engineered to cause dicots (plants like dandelions) to grow quickly and uncontrollably, ultimately killing the plant."

My guess is the wood lovers high in auxins produce less WLP. So if anyone wants to try this, all you would need is the rooting hormone used for cloning plants (indole-3-acetic acid). Then add to substrate...Could be as simple as that. One ingredient and then business as usual. No WLP.

We could RE-SPRAY the parks!!! :awehorny:

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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27807141 - 06/05/22 03:20 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

From:  "Effect of red light on Pi uptake and accumulation a,b, Visualization (a) and quantification (b) of ³³P-labelled Pi uptake by ten-day-old Col-0 seedlings. In a, images of Pi uptake by the seedlings exposed to white light (WL), red light (RL), far-red light (FRL), blue light (BL) or darkness (D) for 24 h were shown in the upper portion, whereas images of Pi uptake by the seedlings whose roots (WL/D, RL/D, FRL/D and BL/D) or shoots (D/WL, D/RL, D/FRL and D/BL) were covered with aluminium foil during light exposure are shown in the middle and lower portions, respectively. n = 4 biologically independent samples. c,d, Visualization (c) and quantification (d) of uptake of ³³P-labelled Pi by ten-day-old Col-0 and phyB mutant (phyB-9) seedlings exposed to white or red light for 24 h. n = 4 biologically independent samples. e,f, Visualization (e) and quantification (f) of uptake of ³³P-labelled Pi by ten-day-old seedlings of graft chimaeras generated with phyB-9 scions and Col-0 (wild-type) rootstocks (P/C), Col-0 (wild-type) scions and phyB-9 rootstocks (C/P), Col-0 (wild-type) scions and Col-0 (wild-type) rootstocks (C/C) and phyB-9 scions and phyB-9 rootstocks (P/P). n = 3 biologically independent samples. In b, d and f, the same letters above each bar indicate that means did not differ significantly at the 0.05 level in Tukey’s multiple comparison test. g, Pi content of Col-0 seedlings grown under white light for eight days (WL) or under white light for four days and subsequently under red light (WL → RL), far-red light (WL → FRL), blue light (WL → BL) or in the dark (WL → D) for four days. n = 5 biologically independent samples. **P < 0.01 and *P < 0.05 indicate significant differences compared with white-light-grown seedlings in a two-tailed Student’s t-test."


In the study, it shows a red light to increase the phosphorous uptake and a blue light to reduce it.






In Effects of Blue and Red Light On Growth And Nitrate Metabolism In Pakchoi, they show "the nitrate reductase (NR) activity, nitrite reductase (NiR) activity, glutamine synthetase (GS) activity and glutamate synthase (GOGAT) activity were highest under blue light. Further, the expression levels of NR, NiR and GS genes were significantly higher under blue light. Under continuous illumination, the auxin content (IAA) in pakchoi leaves was highest under blue light, whereas the abscisic acid (ABA) content was highest under red light. In contrast, there was no significant effect for gibberellin (GA) under any type of light treatment."


Using only blue light for wood lovers should effect the architecture of the mushroom and its ability to uptake phosphorous. This should result in lowered WLP symptoms in the finished fruits.

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OfflineBagOfDicks
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27807146 - 06/05/22 03:28 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Usually people on the advanced mycology forum recommend people post here instead, but I'm going to say this probably belongs in the advanced mycology section.  It'll get more views here though!

Very interesting!


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Invisibledjbabyjesus


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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: BagOfDicks]
    #27807205 - 06/05/22 04:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BagOfDicks said:
Usually people on the advanced mycology forum recommend people post here instead, but I'm going to say this probably belongs in the advanced mycology section.  It'll get more views here though!

Very interesting!





Thank you! I thought about that too. It's sort advanced cultivation, but imo all of mycology is advanced if you want to do it right.:wink:...I chose this section because I figured it would take longer to perform these experiments on my own than if I teamed up with the wood lover growers community in the cultivation section. While it seems advanced, in practice the methods are as easy as watering marijuana plants, adjusting nutrients, controlling lighting and the use of rooting hormones. I feel/hope the methods and ideas discussed are within the spirit of the cultivation section. If correct, it could be a game changer for wood lover growing in general.

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InvisibleDandurn777
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: djbabyjesus]
    #27817400 - 06/13/22 10:40 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Interesting thread. 🍿


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Invisiblestagger
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Re: The Great Substrate Debate--Wood Lovers Paralysis [Re: Dandurn777]
    #27817473 - 06/13/22 11:25 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

great info, thank you

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