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christopera
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Re: Another shooting [Re: ballsalsa]
#27809332 - 06/07/22 06:29 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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When you join a gang and are told to protect your sales region it is a lot different than randomly marching into a school to shoot up children. With the gang it is pretty obvious you are getting into what could be a violent situation. When you are a lone ranger shooting people from a hotel room or walking into a school, the motivations are clearly a lot different. We know a lot of gun violence is criminal on criminal. What people are afraid of currently is criminal on innocents, generally with no clear end goal and often with a
Lately, everybody has been sticking to the 4 people rule pretty well as far as the mass shooting classification.
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ballsalsa
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Right, and 4 people including the shooter (or not) includes tons of non-random shootings in the stats (and headlines). The lone shooter attacking a school or nightclub is vastly in the minority to the kind of shootings we're all more comfortable with but the headlines just say "another mass shooting" because fear sells papers.
I'm not trying to say that school shootings or nightclub shootings are acceptable or good. I'm just demonstrating that they are a lot less common than one might think given the constant daily mass shooting headlines.
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christopera
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Re: Another shooting [Re: ballsalsa]
#27809354 - 06/07/22 07:10 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Most mass shootings never make the news, at least not nationally.
https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/mass-shooting
There were 7 Saturday and 5 Sunday. I heard of one.
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ballsalsa
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Very first "mass shooting" on that list has the following headline
Quote:
Long-standing feud' erupted into a deadly shooting in downtown, Grand Rapids Police Chief says
https://www.wzzm13.com/article/news/one-killed-three-injured-in-grand-rapids-shooting/69-6281aef1-fa0c-4aae-9e93-c4be95e99e5a
Does that sound like the kind of mass shooting you're describing with a lone gunman targeting random people or does it conveniently reiterate my point?
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christopera
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Re: Another shooting [Re: ballsalsa]
#27809359 - 06/07/22 07:21 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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I never claimed that all mass shootings were of that nature, I said "What people are afraid of currently is criminal on innocents (violence), generally with no clear end goal"
I left that sentence hanging, I got a phone call around then and I guess I just never finished it. The point stands.
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ballsalsa
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I mean, sure, that's what people are afraid of, I didn't dispute that. That said, those events make up a tiny number of mass shootings, which was my point. I'm glad we're in agreement. It seems clear that language breeds fear and fear sells papers in the case of "mass shootings" just like it did back when these events were called "gang violence" or how sensational headlines about car jackings had little old ladies locking their doors on the drive to the grocery store back in the day.
Do you still believe that
Quote:
christopera said: ...These mass shootings are generally individuals with no motivation to take money or operating space. They solely want to kill, maybe in the name of some manifesto or something similar...
Given what we just discussed?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Another shooting [Re: ballsalsa]
#27809378 - 06/07/22 07:33 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah I mean they’re selling white PMCs in the Bay Area on fears of a crime wave to oust progressive DA Chesa Boudin, all because some Walgreens stores have closed down their businesses in the area (for reasons unrelated to theft).
Fear sells. And the funny thing is the right would readily accept that this is the case (using mass shootings as an excuse to pump up fear) but they will tell you the reasoning is to justify gun control, and I don’t think that’s the point of it at all.
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christopera
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Everybody is locking their doors on the way to the grocery store. Cars do that automatically now.
That said, out of 12 mass shootings I heard of 1. They (msm) aren't really pushing the narrative that hard. It's just hard to ignore 20 dead kids in a school. Again, a gang is obviously massively different than 20 dead school kids. That isn't to say that shooting up your rivals in a foreign city makes any sense or isn't gang like.
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The Ecstatic
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I wonder how much of the “gang violence” stuff still permeates local news. When I was younger that’s what was always on the local channels; burglaries on the rise! A shooting in “that” side of town, etc.
It’s probably more true than ever, considering the age demo for evening local news is probably like 87 years old at this point.
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ballsalsa
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I can't control what you've heard of or not but here are some of yesterday's headlines you may have missed:
Quote:
From graduation parties to a mall, 13 mass shootings over the weekend leave more than a dozen dead and over 70 injured
(CNN)
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Mass shootings across the U.S. leave dozens killed or wounded this weekend
(NPR)
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At least 12 dead in another weekend of mass shootings across America
(NBC)
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ballsalsa
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gang violence, car jackings and "the crack cocaine epidemic" are the siren songs of our youth.
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christopera
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I wonder how much of the “gang violence” stuff still permeates local news. When I was younger that’s what was always on the local channels; burglaries on the rise! A shooting in “that” side of town, etc.
It’s probably more true than ever, considering the age demo for evening local news is probably like 87 years old at this point.
If my mother calls me one more time to ask if I got shot, meanwhile the shooting was 6 miles away, I might shoot her.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Another shooting [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#27809428 - 06/07/22 08:17 AM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: gang violence, car jackings and "the crack cocaine epidemic" are the siren songs of our youth.
I still remember standing in my kitchen watching the news unfold when Columbine happened. The atmosphere was not very different from how it was on 9/11; utter shock and bewilderment. Now it’s just normal stuff and the extent to which anyone in power actually cares is only to further their own political interests. Republicans: the Dems want to take your guns vote for us! Democrats: the GOP wants your babies to die vote for us! It rings hollow because everyone implicitly understands that nothing will change regardless of the party in power. It’s just another thing for us to feel angry and hopeless about so we turn to apathy.
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The Ecstatic
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: I wonder how much of the “gang violence” stuff still permeates local news. When I was younger that’s what was always on the local channels; burglaries on the rise! A shooting in “that” side of town, etc.
It’s probably more true than ever, considering the age demo for evening local news is probably like 87 years old at this point.
If my mother calls me one more time to ask if I got shot, meanwhile the shooting was 6 miles away, I might shoot her.

My girl and I took a trip to New Orleans a while back, 2019 I think, and my mom sent me an article from 2016 about carjackings on the rise near the Quarter, and to be careful.
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Kryptos
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Quote:
christopera said: These mass shootings are generally individuals with no motivation to take money or operating space. They solely want to kill,
I disagree, I think mass shootings are suicides with extra steps. Killing seems like a distant second as far as motivations go. Or a means to publicize your suicide, because nobody cares about the guy that shoots themselves on some dusty back road and is found three months later.
The point on gang violence ties into the social factors I was talking about earlier -- to what extent should gang violence be separate from a mass shooting? What about gang violence that has an implicit disregard for civilian casualties, like how you hear about a cartel machine gunning an entire nightclub in Mexico and killing dozens to take out one rival?
Of course, the definition of four dead is also...interesting, because what if you have a mass shooter that happens to be an incompetent marksman and fails to kill anyone?
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