|
chopstick
nobody



Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,252
Loc: Chin's Wok
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795085 - 05/27/22 12:37 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
There are a lot of questions about this case which haven't been answered.
How did the shooter acquire two expensive AR's, a dozen magazines and hundreds of rounds of ammunition when he apparently only worked part-time at wendy's for the past year? It has been said he comes from a poor family and he couldn't even afford nice clothes, let alone two decked out AR15's, both of which even came with expensive $700 optics.
His grandpa was interviewed as saying he didn't know how to drive and would have needed someone to both take him to the gun shop as well as learn how to shoot. This guy was an accurate enough of a shot to injure two officers before going into the school. How and where did he train? On top of that his grandpa is a felon and said he would have thrown the guns out if he knew about them.
How was he secretly able to acquire two expensive rifles and train with them despite being poor, not knowing how to drive and not owning a car? Did someone help him do this?
I'm not saying this was staged. But there are a lot of questions that need to be answered here for the public to have a good idea of how this kid was able to do this.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: chopstick] 1
#27795087 - 05/27/22 12:39 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
A part-time job at wendys could have bought two rifles. That's not far fetched at all. It's not like he paid rent. Besides, it appears he only had one rifle and one handgun. I've also seen no evidence it was a particularly expensive rifle at all.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 38 seconds
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Kryptos]
#27795134 - 05/27/22 01:21 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Kryptos said: Perhaps we should just do a periodic societal sweep and lock up anybody that frequents incel, militia, or 4chan content.
That's probably a lot easier than a background check for anyone trying to buy a gun.
I dunno man, at this point I'm just praying that the next shooter shoots up a gun rally. Probably get a better bodycount from the crossfire.
If you post a picture of yourself with a gun across your chest, your guns should be seized. That would prevent half the mass shootings in this country
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (05/27/22 01:21 PM)
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 38 seconds
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: koods] 1
#27795138 - 05/27/22 01:24 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
How did the shooter acquire two expensive AR's, a dozen magazines and hundreds of rounds of ammunition when he apparently only worked part-time at wendy's for the past year?
This is what is bothering you? That he was too poor to afford the guns? He saved his money to buy guns instead of spending it on normal teenage things. Seems like he had a plan. He bought the guns the first day he could legally do so. He used them to kill 21 people less than a week later.
You sorta answered your own questions. He probably could afford the guns because he didn’t own a car.
Edited by koods (05/27/22 01:26 PM)
|
The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 34,046
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 18 minutes, 52 seconds
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil] 1
#27795140 - 05/27/22 01:26 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: Countries that have a lot of sheep also tend to consume a lot of lamb dishes.
The availability of guns makes shooting the chosen method of psychopaths in the U.S. There's no doubt about that. The problem is having unidentified psychopaths, though.
Cop letting a kid with two AR-15s and 30 extra magazines waltz into an elementary school unmolested: “well I don’t wanna jump to any conclusions.”
Maybe identifying him prior to buying the guns would’ve done something, but the state knew in enough advance of his psychopathy to prevent the shooting and they fucked that up too.
We also have the most thorough and sophisticated surveillance dragnet in world history, didn’t help.
Serious question here: does your consistent “the problem is there’s no real solution” take on every topic here make it easier to get through the day, or is it a moderation tactic? Do you really believe it?
--------------------
|
koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 107,128
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 4 minutes, 38 seconds
|
|
Quote:
We also have the most thorough and sophisticated surveillance dragnet in world history, didn’t help.
We don’t tho. You can pretty much get away with anything if you’re smart about it
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
|
Quote:
The Ecstatic said:
Serious question here: does your consistent “the problem is there’s no real solution” take on every topic here make it easier to get through the day, or is it a moderation tactic? Do you really believe it?
It's pretty easy to get through the day anyway, so I don't think that really plays into it.
There simply are problems that are innate in humans. Murder is certainly one of those problems. If you believe the Bible, the first human ever born killed the second human ever born. By all accounts, this pattern has persisted ever since. I realize that it's fun to pretend that we can sit here on an internet forum and solve the longstanding human problems, but every generation has pondered these same problems without any success.
My question to you is: do you really believe there is a solution?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 34 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795170 - 05/27/22 01:59 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
To completely eliminate murder? No. To better protect ourselves and communities from violence, and better address some of the contributing causes? Yes.
Quote:
What is the solution, then? What can we do to put a stop to mass shootings?
If the police exist to protect the wealthy (and themselves), then as disparities in wealth and power increase, the police will protect fewer and fewer people. This is not a sign of their failure; it is precisely what they have always done.
The gulf between the wealthy and the poor has steadily increased for decades now, alongside police violence and mass shootings. The resulting desperation and despair contribute to people becoming mass shooters. The same goes for the scapegoating and demagoguery that arise in such a profoundly unequal, fearful, and acrimonious society. If we want to stop the shootings, in the long run, we have to abolish all the mechanisms that create these inequalities, and all the forces that preserve capitalism, white supremacy, and patriarchy. In this regard, the fight to stop mass shootings must set itself much broader goals if it is to succeed.
During active shooter drills at schools across the United States today, children are taught that their best bet in the event of a shooting is to fight back—to throw textbooks or chairs or whatever they can get their hands on at the shooter. This is the response of a society that doesn’t intend to protect children, that never has protected them. It indicates that we really are on our own. We have to understand this and start organizing accordingly, rather than putting our faith in politicians of any party.
One of the fundamental roles of police is to discourage us from solving problems ourselves, so we defer both our own safety and the resolution of conflict to the authorities. Yet most parents will risk more to protect their children than the police ever will. What would have been necessary for the parents in Uvalde to have been able to successfully address the shooting themselves, in defiance of the police? What grassroots institutions would need to exist, what resources and skills would need to circulate? It’s horrifying to acknowledge, but we are in a situation in which more and more of us really have no better option.
If it’s up to us to address these shootings, then rather than looking to the Democrats to tighten gun control via legislation and police action, we might begin by asking what a direct action campaign targeting the gun industry itself might look like. What if we could sidestep the Rube Goldberg machine of party politics entirely to cut into the profit margins of the corporations that have been making a killing selling firearms?
There is no safety without self-determination. To be safe, we have to be the ones who define what counts as safety, and we have to have the power to shape the conditions of our lives. So far, the most effective participants in the movement against mass shootings have been the students who have staged walkouts from their schools. Another starting point is to make sure that student organizers have all the support and resources they require as they figure out for themselves how best to preserve their lives.
If school has taught today’s students anything, it is that those who make decisions on their behalf do not always have their best interests at heart. In the world that they are entering—fraught with tremendous disparities, threatened by climate catastrophe, and wracked by civil conflict—the most important thing they could learn is how to act collectively to defend each other. That is the skill they are going to need, more than any prerequisites or job training.
Their Guns Won’t Protect You, but They Can Get You Killed - Why Neither Policing nor Gun Control Will Suffice to Stop the Shootings
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
|
Can you give an example of a society with significantly less violence?
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Kryptos
Stranger

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 12,847
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795225 - 05/27/22 02:41 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
That's a strawman question.
Me poking you is technically violence, and so is me shooting you. Would you rather I poke you or shoot you? Or do you see those as situations with equal outcomes?
There are many countries with comparable rates of violence, but there are very few countries with comparable rates of lethal violence.
Because a crazy spree killer in the rest of the world basically means a few people get stabbed, and maybe one or two die. In the US, it means one or two dozen die.
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Kryptos]
#27795234 - 05/27/22 02:48 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
There's no strawman there. He's talking about a reduction in violence. I'm asking if there is a place that has accomplished that. It's a fair question, and if you don't have an answer to it, maybe he does.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,487
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 1 hour, 34 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795263 - 05/27/22 03:05 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: Can you give an example of a society with significantly less violence?
Well, the USA has one of the highest rates of violent crime for any developed country - so quite a few societies exist with significantly less violence than the USA. The USA also has one of the highest rates of economic inequality for any developed county. This all alludes to the first aspect, "the gulf between the wealthy and the poor". Canada certainly isn't perfect in it's own right, but the rate of violent crime and economic inequality are both lesser than our southern neighbour - contrasting the two societies can certainly provide some insight on what could be done differently/better.
As for the second aspect, "there is no safety without self-determination" - I don't think any current nation-state has fully adopted this principle as it directly contrasts with the necessary monopoly of violence by state authority - but speaking of personal experience on the micro-level - I have felt safest living in communities where police don't venture but I know and trust my neighbours.
--------------------
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
|
I don't agree that the U.S. has one of the highest rate of violent crime for any developed country, but it is certainly higher than Canada. I agree that there are things we can look at to possibly help the situation. I think access to mental health services is a big one.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795381 - 05/27/22 04:43 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The problem is clearly the crazy people in the first place.
Crazy people are a problem because they can get guns that can easily shoot holes through standard police body armor , and bullets are light you can carry allot . That kid wouldn't have been a problem or even a threat to me without his gun . If he had walked in there with a flame thrower he had just bought at harbor freight , torched the whole class and blew up the other side of the school when the thing malfunctioned like everything from that store does , would we say the fact that he bought a flame thrower wasn't the problem ?
Edited by Psilynut2 (05/27/22 04:48 PM)
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Psilynut2]
#27795391 - 05/27/22 04:55 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Yes. It would be the crazy person. Crazy people find a way to do crazy things.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
mycosis


Registered: 08/20/07
Posts: 19,884
Loc: USSA
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795431 - 05/27/22 05:29 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Enlil said: A part-time job at wendys could have bought two rifles. That's not far fetched at all. It's not like he paid rent. Besides, it appears he only had one rifle and one handgun. I've also seen no evidence it was a particularly expensive rifle at all.
If you can believe the pictures going around one of the two rifles was a Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 with an Eotech optic. You're talking about $2600 minimum probably more. That's not even counting ammo, mags, and the ceramic armor plates they're saying he had.
Not saying the kid couldn't afford it but it wasn't a trash can rifle either.
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: mycosis]
#27795555 - 05/27/22 06:51 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
If he had bought a California rifle he would have had to break the rifle open to reload it every 10 shots or carry a 5 gallon bucket full of 10 round mags . He would have needed a fake to buy it also .
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Psilynut2]
#27795585 - 05/27/22 07:03 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
It's very easy to remove the lockout that prevents a mag from being changed without separating the upper and lower.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,355
Last seen: 1 hour, 41 minutes
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Enlil]
#27795598 - 05/27/22 07:13 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Why would he wish to alter his gun that way instead of blowing grandmas face off the way he bought it ?
|
Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
|
Re: Another shooting [Re: Psilynut2]
#27795601 - 05/27/22 07:13 PM (1 year, 11 months ago) |
|
|
To kill more people, probably.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
|
|