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Gr8fulJack
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Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent?
#27785607 - 05/20/22 11:54 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello Everyone,
I want to give thanks to this board and the many excellent and helpful posts/people on here, I have learned so much in the last few months and I promise that I will pay it forward once I actually know what I am doing to help others in this amazing journey. I think I'm hooked now 
The set up is 5 trays in the Martha with the Humidifier piped in from the top and a small fan that turns on every 2 hours for 30 minutes on the top shelf, I know its not ideal, have to tweak that, but I wanted some air moving around in there. If the fan is off then the humidity just cascades down into the trays and I'm not sure if that is good or not? I figured moving air/humidity is better for an even dispersal? The gallon of water had been frozen overnight and placed in there to keep it a bit cool as we got a heat wave into the high 90s recently.

When I uncovered the colonized bulk trays to move into the fruiting phase, I found that the MAZ looked like this...I wasn't sure what caused that condition but it looked like staining from mushroom piss after reading a dozen posts about it, so I put it in the Martha with the rest to see if it would improve. It is matted on 1 side and dryish looking on the other?

I also had a tray of BM that came out like this. It also seems matted like it has a layer of frozen water on top, though its not seemingly moisture? Does it look like it needs to dry out a bit or needs more moisture?

Closeup of the BM:

It seemed to be cycling the humidity up and down with some frequency, but we recently had a heat wave and got into the high 90s and that has thrown things off a bit, which probably weren't ideal to begin with, but seemed to be working ok. I had not been misting and fanning as I was trying to get the humidifier/fan combo to work together on that but I am wondering if I should be doing that as well?
I got a tray of TED that is pinning and looks ok from what I can tell? 
Closeup of the babies 

I am hoping someone can look at the tray pics and tell me if they look either too dry/too wet or inconsistent? I switched the fan to turn on every 2 hours for 30 minutes and have a fan outside of the tent blowing on it indirectly. I have the RH on the inkbird to 90 with a 5% drop before it turns back on, I'm still trying to find the right setup for that and the appropriate # of FAEs.
Thanks!
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27786666 - 05/21/22 09:16 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another question for you guys:
The tray of Maz has developed an off color tinge, I'm thinking its greenish, but hard to tell in the light. I have some pics of it and I've taken the tray out of the martha and lightly covered it for now as I don't want to contaminate the others if so.
What do you guys think, is it Trich or something else? I am still not sure if my trays are moist enough or too dry?



Also, my TED pins are growing but there is a small cluster that looks a bit weird if anyone has any insight? Its the 2 right in the middle of the picture, they are skinnier at the base and it looks like their skin is peeling a bit?


Thanks again in advance for any help you guys can give, I am a total noob, but I have been enjoying every minute of this process and its honestly fascinating in a hundred ways.
-------------------- Onward and Upward!
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LotKid
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27786745 - 05/21/22 10:45 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Youre getting them too wet then letting them get too dry. That kind of setup can be a real bitch to dial in.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: LotKid]
#27786758 - 05/21/22 11:02 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, I wonder if I should just switch to manual misting and fanning 3 times a day as it feels like I am just going around in circles trying to dial in the humidifier and fan.
Do you think its Trich on the Maz at all?
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The Tao
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27786799 - 05/21/22 11:45 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why do you want to mist and fan and why do you want to do it 3 times a day?
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27786847 - 05/21/22 12:51 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ideally, I would prefer to dial it in with the humidifier and fan, but it feels like I can't find the right balance, I have some fruiting but they look like they are a bit stressed so I figured that I may have better luck doing this manually to help get that moisture/evap balance correct. I think I tried to run before I could walk with the tent and now I am trying to catch up to it. If anything, this has been a great learning experience and I am going to continue to try and improve my techniques and processes.
Here is the fruit, it looks like they are too dry, maybe not getting enough CO2 out?

Compared to the others in that group, they have skinny stems and the skin looks cracked on the stem and cap?
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Add1ct
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27787888 - 05/22/22 08:33 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Man, I hope you get some answers. I'm in the same boat as you and have some trays that are looking similar and would like a little more guidance, just like you.
Do you think that cluster of fruit got under hydrated and that's why they look contsteicted at the bottom but then got some water and started growing normally again? Can they do that?
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The Tao
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: LotKid] 1
#27787916 - 05/22/22 09:16 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LotKid said: Youre getting them too wet then letting them get too dry. That kind of setup can be a real bitch to dial in.
LotKid explained what the problems are. I’d shut off the humidifier and put the trays in clear bags, poke a couple of holes in the bags and leave them alone. You’re killing them with kindness.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Add1ct]
#27787946 - 05/22/22 09:40 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hey Add1ct,
If I get this figured out, I will absolutely update the post and give you whatever help I can as I also just found a bunch of posts with people in the same boat after searching for a bit. And yes, I think they were just not getting enough hydration. I have added another humidifier on the same hygrometer that pipes into the side near the bottom as the bottom humidity was always low and I think that is helping even everything out. I am also rotating the trays every morning thinking that might help even them out.
I found this blog from Northspore that has a troubleshooting guide for tents and it seemed to me to be inadequate hydration and high CO2 levels, maybe it will give you some insights to your situation as well. https://northspore.com/blogs/the-black-trumpet/martha-tent-aka-martha-tek-or-martha-technique-step-by-step-tutorial
The TED seems to be fruiting much better now, however I still don't have any pinning on any of the other trays and I still don't know if I can save the MAZ or if I should just toss it? I have it on a shelf about 10 feet away and its loosely covered as I didn't want it to affect the others if it is contamination. It looks matted on the one side and drying on the other. There is some fuzziness in the close up and in certain light it looks greenish, but so hard to tell.

Up-close view of what I think is contams, but I am not a mycologist unfortunately, wish I was!

The BM is still looking matted, I don't know what to make of that one, it seems solidly colonized but I don't get why its just a solid surface and not fluffy at all?

The TED this morning, looking like its recovering and its amazing how much it has grown over night!

Hopefully someone has some insight that will help the both of us mate! I added a poll, maybe that will get us some help!
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Add1ct
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27787996 - 05/22/22 10:36 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
LotKid explained what the problems are. I’d shut off the humidifier and put the trays in clear bags, poke a couple of holes in the bags and leave them alone. You’re killing them with kindness.
ha, explaining the problem is not giving a solution. And saying to put them in bags and poking holes also doesn't lend knowledge as it doesn't explain why that is a solution to the problem. Gr8fulJack, and many other people, come here to learn and ask questions nicely to try and find out what works and what doesn't. If you want to provide solutions then you should also explain why your solution works, otherwise it is just back to the endless loop of trial and error and your comments are just unhelpful white noise.
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The Tao
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Add1ct]
#27788053 - 05/22/22 11:22 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Add1ct said:
Quote:
LotKid explained what the problems are. I’d shut off the humidifier and put the trays in clear bags, poke a couple of holes in the bags and leave them alone. You’re killing them with kindness.
ha, explaining the problem is not giving a solution. And saying to put them in bags and poking holes also doesn't lend knowledge as it doesn't explain why that is a solution to the problem. Gr8fulJack, and many other people, come here to learn and ask questions nicely to try and find out what works and what doesn't. If you want to provide solutions then you should also explain why your solution works, otherwise it is just back to the endless loop of trial and error and your comments are just unhelpful white noise.
The plastic bag will act as a humidity chamber. That means you don’t have to mist much. The condensation on the inside of the bag will let you know that it isn’t too dry. The holes will allow air exchange. Have look at this. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27280275/fpart/1/vc/1 You seem a bit tense.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27788125 - 05/22/22 12:16 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Awesome, thank you so much Tao! I'll read thru that post and the other info you gave me in the PM and update this thread to hopefully help others as well.
-------------------- Onward and Upward!
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Add1ct
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27788135 - 05/22/22 12:28 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Cool, thanks for explaining that, makes sense. Follow up question, if there is a build up of condensation on the sides of the bag, that doesn't mean there is too much water? It looks like Gr8fulJack's tray may have had some pooling, wouldn't there be a threat of more water pooling if there was so much water in the bag that it condenses on the walls? On my tent there was a lot of condensation on the sides of the walls where I got worried that there was too much water in the tent itself.
Not tense, annoyed is more like it, or frustrated. Looking through these forums to find some answers and seeing a lot of quips and critiscisms without much effort being put in to try to help the op understand their problem. Then finding this thread to try and answer some of my questions and instead of clarity it was just more confusion added. Gr8fulJack put a lot of effort into his post and seems like a bright eyed noob looking to be a part of a mushroom grower community and just got ignored and short responses telling him what he did wrong.
But anyway, thanks for explaining that. I have dialed in a bit more of my tent and I think it is going well right now but I think I will try the bag method you mentioned on one of my trays that seems to be colonizing poorly (or stalled) while I was fiddling with my settings of the last week or so and see if that helps get it back on track.
Mush love brother
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LotKid
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Add1ct] 2
#27788178 - 05/22/22 01:07 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not everyone always has the time to spend expalining the nuts and bolts of every aspect.
Try running the humidifers more and not running the fans at all. Everything is super dry.
Mushrooms like wet. Cubes arent a finicky species to grow. Keep em wet enough and as long as the spawn is mostly clean you'll get usually get something before it goes sideways. And as you get better at making clean spawn your yields will improve.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: LotKid]
#27788218 - 05/22/22 01:42 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank you Lot, appreciate the feedback and I get it about having time to explain things, I am getting better at my search terms and that seems to be helping. I also got some good advice from Tao that I am going to try. Appreciate it and I'll update after I make some changes. Oh and I am going to see Dead and Co next month, super stoked for that!
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The Tao
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Add1ct]
#27788281 - 05/22/22 02:28 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Add1ct said: Cool, thanks for explaining that, makes sense. Follow up question, if there is a build up of condensation on the sides of the bag, that doesn't mean there is too much water? It looks like Gr8fulJack's tray may have had some pooling, wouldn't there be a threat of more water pooling if there was so much water in the bag that it condenses on the walls? On my tent there was a lot of condensation on the sides of the walls where I got worried that there was too much water in the tent itself.
Mush love brother
If you don’t have condensation then there isn’t enough moisture in the trays or whatever you’re using as a humidity chamber or there’s too much air exchange. If the trays are at proper field capacity you’ll be able to mist when necessary to replace the water that evaporated. If the trays are overly moist to start with or are being misted too much you’ll get pooling. One of those things that makes sense when you see it.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27788813 - 05/22/22 10:06 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Excellent, thank you for that info, I'm working thru your suggestions and I'll report back on the progress.
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Bobbins
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27788970 - 05/23/22 02:06 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Almost nobody is using a martha for actives, we like plastic tubs here. Your martha setup would be great for gourmet/medicinal growing but just not needed for actives.
-------------------- DeALeRsHrOoMs
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Bobbins]
#27809937 - 06/07/22 05:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just wanted to report back on my progress to hopefully help others. First a big thanks to members The Tao and LotKid for their helpful suggestions and advice.
I did end up covering the tray that had stalled out with plastic, put it into a tub and allowed it to just do its thing without trying to tweak it so much and it took off after a few days. Dialing in the tent is a chore and I am confident that it will get easier to dial in as I do a few more of these, but the plastic covered tray in the tub has worked wonders to get these to fruiting. I'll continue to add more as I learn but again, just wanted to say thank you and let you all know that your help is very much appreciated!
Now, an update on the MAZ, it was not contamination, just stress and some very poor watering and subsequent drying out as another member explained. Once I got it into the tub, it just took off and had a great production run.
This is after about 3 days in the tub, just sitting in there with enough hydration to get some condensation on the inside of the plastic.

Then, the pins really took off as I moved it back into the tent since I had to be gone all day for work. I also managed to change the timer to turn on for 5 minutes every 3 hours in the tent and that seems to have helped prevent overly drying the trays.

After about a week or so it was here and ready to harvest! Glad I didn't throw it out!

Thanks again for the help!
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LotKid
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27810631 - 06/08/22 08:49 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Now you see why all the "automation" usually isnt recommended or needed. Cubes are fairly "auto" to begin with.
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The Tao
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: Gr8fulJack]
#27810787 - 06/08/22 12:19 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good for you. You should change your current mood to something other than confused now.
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Gr8fulJack
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27811166 - 06/08/22 06:13 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Will do, I agree as now I am feeling pretty grateful!
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averagehobbyist
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Re: Too Dry or Too Wet in FC/Martha Tent? [Re: The Tao]
#27811231 - 06/08/22 07:07 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is very useful, thanks. I am using the exact same marta tent and I am going to give this a try.
I kind of wanted the "excitement" of having it all automated. Sometimes, simplicity is best..
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Gr8fulJack
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Honestly, once it is dialed in I know the tent will be great. Its just when you are starting out, at least in my case, it was a bit harder to get it setup correctly with regard to the various parameters especially while I was trying to learn along the way. I had read a great growing book and had other resources, but its still a bit of a learning curve any way you slice it. The tub just made it a bit easier to get things going. I just put it in a big clear ziplock bag and poked holes all over the top, put it in the tub and misted the walls of the tub a couple times a day when it seemed to need it, that's it. After a few days the Maz was pinning.

I can also give an update on the BM, this one took the longest to get to fruiting and also had to spend some time in the tub before it got going. I believe the tray had too much of a layer of matted surface from the overly wet/overly dry cycling as another member pointed out above. But it did eventually recover in the tub and went from this....

To this!

I have had several trays that seemed to favor one side, but I think its because I had them covered in 2 sheets of foil with a slight overlap of the 2 edges where the pieces met in the middle. I think that one side had more air flow or some other variable that made it better for fruiting. I'm still trying to pin that down, but that's what I'm thinking as this is the 3rd or 4th tray that had that same fruiting pattern. I'm going to do the covers a bit different on the next ones to try and eliminate that. I also understand that a better casing layer on the top can help guide the fruit to a more optimal growth pattern.
The Thai Elephant. This produced some decent fruits and was also very productive overall.

The Golden Teacher. This type also produced big fruits, had some 25-30 gram big ones that were really cool to watch grow.

And the Maz:

Finally, the PES. Some big fruits as well and very productive overall.

There are great resources here that I have been using, maybe they will help: "How it should look" by Timethyl, this was great visual aid as a way to confirm a few things along the way. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17231150#17231150
"Threads that have helped..." by pixelpopper, some older posts, but I found lots of good links to info here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24733554
"Proper Surface Moisture" by ComebackKid, useful for trying to figure out the right balance. I thought so anyway. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23999053
Hope that has helped, I am stoked for my first grow, I think it overall is going well and I am interested in continuing to learn and grow in this pursuit as these are more than just recreational in my opinion, though there is nothing wrong with that either. I suggest that you just keep the faith and carry on. Learn as much as you can and read, read, read on this site. Also, if you ask nicely, some members will help you get going as well, just be patient and pay it forward when you can. FYI, I also spoke to them and played some good vibe music and I would say that helped as well, but I am just a hippie so it could just be the shrooms talking
-------------------- Onward and Upward!
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