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The Tao
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Registered: 09/12/19
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27794137 - 05/26/22 06:15 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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What PF tek are you following? How are you inoculating the jars if you don’t have a SAB? I grow a lot of cakes and get reasonable yields considering the method. I use an instant pot and make my own prints and syringes. Simple stuff. Please don’t Uncle Ben. Use this to post a picture of your jars. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=255&Number=27127917&fpart=&PHPSESSID=
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
#27794204 - 05/26/22 06:58 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said:

for sure! sorry, i realized the "people aren't just pulling it out of their ass" may have come off a bit aggressive, i didn't mean it that way at all. happy i could help explain a bit! (:
bags move too much air around & are really tall which makes them difficult in the SAB. i'm sure some people have done it with success, but basically everyone using an SAB just uses jars. grain spawn bags are easiest to work with in front of a flowhood using agar or LC.
i would highly discourage the uncle ben's tek as well, it's basically a worse spore to grain. haven't ever seen a UB bag that wasn't super bacterial. you can get mushrooms using the method, but it's not reliable at all & you'll end up losing much more than you win. plus it doesn't teach you anything about growing or what to look for or do for future grows. if you failed with PF tek there's probably a reason, & i'd say you're more likely to fail with uncle bens if you can't get PF tek down either. what did you do for PF the first time you did it?
if you really wanted success, i'd recommend just buying a pressure cooker & getting into agar & prepping your own grains. it becomes a lot easier to narrow down what you're doing wrong that way & if you're planning on consistently growing, a PC is an invaluable tool & agar will really help in getting consistently clean cultures & results. if you have the money & want to grow mushrooms more than like twice, the PC is excellent
are you saying those PF cakes haven't grown any mycelium & are still just uncolonized cakes in the jar? or were they colonized & birthed & now are not fruiting?
The cakes I have currently; there is mycelium, a solid cylinder of it. But they have never fruited, haven't done anything. They are not as white and don't smell as strongly of mushroom anymore, but other than that quite literally nothing has happened. There is no mold on either, no signs of anything.
As far as what I did previously. I don't have the exact proportions off hand but basically I:
* Mixed verm and BRF * Got it wet to what I thought was field capacity (I am not confident of this step) * Jared the mixture into wide mouth jars * Dry verm layer on top * Tin foil around top of jar * Used a instant pot to cook jars for several hours * Let the jars cool overnight
Now here was a first problem: the jars became vacuums so when I went to inject (self healing hole in cap) it sucked like 5cc immediately into the jar. The subsequent jars I opened just barely to vent (probably just sucked in contams at this point I realize now). I had no gas exchange port on this first batch causing the vacuum (I assume).
Second batch same process but this time with gas exchange port (micropore) as well as self healing port. No vacuum this time.
* Tin foil off, inject (no SAB) * Place in dual tub with reptile heater to keep top tub at 72
Results were, all but 2 jars colonized (the 2 never did anything). Dunked and rolled some jars and not others (wasn't sure if you should or shouldn't do this so I experimented). The ones that had the vacuum seal all were contaminated shortly after birthing. I placed cakes on (lots) of perlite on small squares of tinfoil. Did FAE fanning few times a day misted side of tub. At this point I can't remember exactly what happened along to way to each cake, but essentially the results were 1 cake that fruited directly on the cake for an extremely small yield (like 2g no kidding) then no second flush. 2 cakes that have done literally nothing since probably a month ago. For reference I inoculated the grain bag, and moved that to manure after these 2 cakes were done. So I'm pretty confident it's been 4-6 weeks ago.
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: WyoMX]
#27794213 - 05/26/22 07:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
WyoMX said: With coir you do use the same ratio like 1 part spawn to to 2 or 3 parts coir generally. Most people who use bags make them themselves and inoculate with agar or liquid culture infront of a flowhood, like hazy was saying going spores directly to grain is a huge gamble. And we all know about the uncle Ben's tek it is unfortunately a very very bad tek to follow. Seems easy enough but the bags contain a ton of moisture which leads to easier contams and you're still going spore to grain which is not reliable at all. Some people have had success but most people have alot of failure with it.
With those last 2 cakes if you really wanna try to break them up you can but I don't think it's worth it in my opinion. If you've been trying to fruit them for a month there gonna be alot weaker and susceptible to contams.
When you say 1:2 or 1:3 that is based on weight? As in weight of the mycelium?
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hazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti] 1
#27794222 - 05/26/22 07:16 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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quarts of spawn to quarts of substrate, it’s volume. it may work for lbs:lbs but i don’t usually spawn my stuff that way
-------------------- you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
#27794369 - 05/26/22 08:57 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: quarts of spawn to quarts of substrate, it’s volume. it may work for lbs:lbs but i don’t usually spawn my stuff that way
Makes sense, thanks.
Also, my existing tub since I'm letting it just live it's worst life for the time being. I just checked it and the mold hasn't spread on the top it's still localized to the bottom left corner and the top left corner. I also noticed a ton of mycelium piss all over. From my understanding that is a byproduct of the mycelium fighting off a bacterial infection. My question is, does that mean there is some small hope of something growing? The mold probably takes up 20% of the entire substrate (to my eye on the top who knows throughout)
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hazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27794374 - 05/26/22 09:01 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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in my experience, if you get mold before pins you’re fucked. it’s better to start new stuff if you can
-------------------- you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================
 
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
#27794386 - 05/26/22 09:08 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: in my experience, if you get mold before pins you’re fucked. it’s better to start new stuff if you can
Ya I have the tub off in it's own world and I'm starting a batch of new things this weekend. I'm going to do PF-TEK, also grain bag since I have it. I'll do PF-TEK in a SAB to coir 1:2/1:3 straight to fruiting condition. I'll try the grain in a SAB for good measure. At this point I have so many supplies I'm going to just experiment and see what I can or can't come up with lol.
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27796647 - 05/28/22 04:44 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just for an update.
Broke up the two cakes I have that have been sitting for over a month now. They might as well have been concrete blocks. Solid rock hard all the way through. I broke them up and tried to at least give the broken up parts water. I kept working to get the pieces as small as I could, I'd say a dime sized or smaller at a minimum. Mixed coco coir in a bucket with boiling water (waited about an hour to cool), did field capacity checks and filled a container at a 1:3 ratio. Put about an inch of casing on top of the mix with slightly more water (since the cakes were so incredibly dry) and also misted the casing and the top of the container.
Injected 3cc into another grain spawn bag in the SAB.
Tomorrow I'm going to work on making PF-TEK jars I have a pressure cooker arriving tomorrow for that.
Guess we will see what happens.
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27799603 - 05/30/22 09:47 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Another update.
Made 6 PF-TEK jars, BRF/Verm/Water on a 2:1:1 ratio. Put a layer of dry verm on top and sealed them up with modified lids. Put them in the PC for 90 minutes at 15 PSI. Let my jars cool for 12+ hours and just inoculated 1cc into each in the SAB. Flame sterilized between each injection.
As a side note, I'm going to make no-pour agar this week and shoot some spores on that in the SAB. See what grows and if I get mold/bacteria I will try to salvage the mycelium until I can get a good agar plate. That way I can at the very least know I'm starting from a good syringe. I will make LC from the successful agar to help as well.
The 2 cakes I broke up and put in coir are showing some white substance. Not sure if it's mycelium yet it's 2 small spots and the coir just smells strongly of coir so far.
Edited by lamorti (05/30/22 09:50 PM)
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hazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27799720 - 05/31/22 01:34 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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glad to hear it! i think you'll dig agar. once you use it a bit it becomes really easy & it's fun in my opinion. good luck with the tub (: very possible the white is myc, but trich also starts out white. pics would help diagnose but you'll know soon enough
-------------------- you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================
 
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
#27800066 - 05/31/22 10:16 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
hazyhorse said: glad to hear it! i think you'll dig agar. once you use it a bit it becomes really easy & it's fun in my opinion. good luck with the tub (: very possible the white is myc, but trich also starts out white. pics would help diagnose but you'll know soon enough
Here are some pics of the growth. The spots are a little bigger this morning and there are 3 now instead of 2. I tried the bucket Tek (boiling water into bucket, lid on top) for pasteurization, not sure if that's needed or the best Tek. I used a coir brick so I had to stir it quite a bit to get it all mixed. I only smell coir so far. At least as compared to my last attempt, whatever is growing seems to be growing flat and not making those big mounds like before.

Edit: I'm noticing in some of these pictures the growth looks blue/green but it doesn't look that way to my eye so I'm not sure where that coloring is coming from in the picture. The outside plastic case is different hues as well so I'm assuming my phone camera is doing something wonky to the color.
Edited by lamorti (05/31/22 10:26 AM)
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27800671 - 05/31/22 05:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I'm not visually seeing this green cast looking at the coir, but I see it on my computer, I did take closer pictures. Whatever is growing is growing pretty rapidly. There are 5-6 spots now although the new ones are very tiny. Here are some better close-ups of the original spots.
I did make sure to get a brick of coco coir that didn't have Trichoderma added to it, it was organic 100% pure coir. But, on my computer at least, it's looking like Trichoderma. I wouldn't be surprised as those 2 cakes have literally sat for 30+ days and became cement bricks. Trichoderma probably took over well before anything could happen with the mycelium bricks.
Should I pressure cook my coir even if it's 100% coco coir?
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hazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27801061 - 06/01/22 01:35 AM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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it’s probably from the cakes, not the coir. a lot of people run cold tap hydrated coir just fine
-------------------- you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================
 
🅃 🄴 🄰 🄼 🄲 🄻 🄸 🄽 🄶 🅆 🅁 🄰 🄿
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
#27804714 - 06/03/22 07:26 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just another update.
Made 12 no pour agar jars. PC'd for an hour at 15psi. Let cool for 12+ hours. For whatever reason the lids all became loose (I used modified lids so they were on tight before PC). I tightened the lids again, but I'm hoping that didn't introduce contams. Added a couple of drops of spores from the syringe to 2 agar jars in the SAB. I have one jar sitting right side up and one upside down (there is a small amount of condensation). Figured I'd try both methods. Other 10 jars are in the same room just sitting to see if anything grows by itself (hopefully not), sort of as a control as compared to the two jars. I'll wait to see what happens with the agar.
My plan at this time is to isolate good healthy mycelium from the agar, either by luck in a single jar or by transplanting into a new agar jar.
As far as my BRF jars, no noticable growth yet, today is day 5 for those since inoculation.
Let me know if I've messed something up or if you have any tips. Thanks again for the help.
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lamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
#27817828 - 06/13/22 04:02 PM (2 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sorry, it's been a minute, I was playing the waiting game. So here is where I am at now.
PF-Tek BRF Jars:
5 of the 6 jars are showing growth. Looks healthy and fine to me as far as I can tell, I can take pictures if it's useful but basically, I see no reason to be concerned. 1 jar has 0 growth noticeable though for whatever reason (all inoculated at the same time)
Agar Dishes:
Made 12 no-pour agar jars. 10 are unused still, 2 jars have been inoculated with the spores. All jars are in the same room and were done at the same time. The 10 unused jars show no growth of anything so I think my agar is all sterile. The 2 inoculated jars have pure white growth, assumed to be mycelium, it's been roughly 1 week since inoculation and growth was slow so I don't think it's bacteria or mold. I have attached pictures of the 2 jars so you could take a look and let me know if you see something I don't. My only slight concern is that the mycelium is very aerial and fuzzy.
Future:
I plan to agar transfer to 4 new jars to see if I can get the growth to be more rhizomorphic, as well as to better validate that I am only growing mycelium. If so, I plan to create a LC, then inoculate another agar jar with the LC to make sure I have a known good LC syringe.
Open to any feedback or suggestions.
Thanks
Pictures:
Edited by lamorti (06/13/22 04:04 PM)
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