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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27783321 - 05/18/22 05:16 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
yes. the added FAE should be fine so long as your surface generally looks like this at all times. you want a balance of fresh air vs. moisture retention in the sub & you’ll learn to dial it in with your conditions. most people just “fruit” from spawn now, meaning they don’t restrict FAE until 100% colonization. as long as it’s not drying out you can give it FAE from the get go. i use this mono tub design with micropore tape over the lower holes & partially over the upper holes. i don’t need to mist until around the first flush.




I appreciate the help, my tub is setup very similar to the one you've linked.  I will say I do see clear white globes of water on top of... whatever it is growing at the top.  I'll just leave it alone and see what happens over the next few days.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
    #27783328 - 05/18/22 05:23 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

yeah it looked close to it. just make sure it keeps the beads of water; as you increase FAE more evaporation will take place & your sub may dry out faster due to this. just watch the conditions & mist if necessary. don’t be afraid to mist the sub directly, just make sure it’s a gentle mist & not a super soaker blasting it lol


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OfflinePinstagram
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27783340 - 05/18/22 05:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Damn hazy, you are a trooper! I have went to answer a few times and by the time I typed it out, you had already replied! Careful or they will be calling YOU a gatekeeper haha! With all your agar talk and not inoculating with mss bs...... But as hazy has said, that tub needs air, but not to the sacrifice of moisture retention. Even following trusted teks, it is different from space to space and variety to variety. It will take a few tries to dial a tub in for a particular variety in your space. In the same space, with the same tub, same spawn/bulk I get different responses with different varieties. Surface conditions matter most once you spawn, then once its pinned you can judge fae by the fruits. Most of us do spawn directly to fruiting and have light at all stages of growth. Keep at it, keep us posted, and good luck!!!!

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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27783358 - 05/18/22 05:50 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
yeah it looked close to it. just make sure it keeps the beads of water; as you increase FAE more evaporation will take place & your sub may dry out faster due to this. just watch the conditions & mist if necessary. don’t be afraid to mist the sub directly, just make sure it’s a gentle mist & not a super soaker blasting it lol




Sounds good, I have distilled water ready to mist and I'll ensure the sub looks similar to how it looks now.  I'll post updates because I searched all over the forums and I couldn't find something quite like what I have going on (at least not to my eye) so maybe this thread will help someone in the future.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: Pinstagram]
    #27783368 - 05/18/22 05:56 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

hahahahaha, ah yes, in my ivory tower working inside a cracked, duct taped SAB, spawning to $1 plastic bins. now before me, peasants!

i mean uhh— sneeze into a bag of uncle ben’s, perfect mushrooms every time!

if im not doing much i’m just constantly checking my threads, especially if i’m actively answering stuff.

good point, fruiting is entirely different space to space & even culture to culture sometimes. there is some degree of dialing in a tek can’t accommodate for. as long as you’re reading surface conditions/fruits you should be able to get it all balanced.

you don’t NEED distilled water, most tap is fine, but distilled isn’t gonna hurt anything. it’s good to keep threads updated for that reason, so keep us posted!


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OfflinePinstagram
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
    #27783381 - 05/18/22 06:04 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Distilled water is pointless.

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OfflinePinstagram
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: Pinstagram]
    #27783385 - 05/18/22 06:07 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Beat again by the ivory tower!

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: Pinstagram]
    #27783402 - 05/18/22 06:25 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

sorry ;D <33


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OfflinePinstagram
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27783433 - 05/18/22 06:52 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I dont want to take away from OP with commentary and jokes. But good going hazy! Its about helping one another and growing sacred/healing fruits. Thanks for giving solid advice! Now to not saving a contamed tub, but avoiding it to begin with.............. haha!!!!!!

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: Pinstagram]
    #27783471 - 05/18/22 07:38 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

im always happy to help people! i know it can be hard & confusing getting started, but cultivation is actually pretty simple once you know what you’re doing. the best method is avoiding contamination in the first place, but if you have stuff going on that isn’t totally fucked i don’t see the harm in trying to get fruits from it. i’ve pulled pretty solid harvests from spawn people here probably would have told me to toss, but it is very inconsistent. but hey, mushrooms are mushrooms & an ounce is an ounce. if you’re just trying to have a personal stash even shitty grows add up, but it’s always best to try to get better with your next grow


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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27783487 - 05/18/22 07:56 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

My basic thought process is, that letting it try to work itself out isn't going to hurt.  If it starts turning green or very obviously is absolutely scuffed I'll toss it.  Might as well see what I might be able to get out of it at this point, I'm already 4+ weeks in, certainly can't hurt.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
    #27783493 - 05/18/22 08:00 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

that’s my mentality too. if it’s not turning green & i don’t absolutely need the tub to spawn something else into, i don’t have much to lose. it’s pretty much game over when you see mold break out though


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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27788395 - 05/22/22 03:54 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
that’s my mentality too. if it’s not turning green & i don’t absolutely need the tub to spawn something else into, i don’t have much to lose. it’s pretty much game over when you see mold break out though




Was gone for the weekend and just got back home.  Checked on the montoub and there is green mold in the bottom left corner -.-.  So I need to throw this out now.  But I had some questions.

If I made a SAB would the process be:
- Sterilize SAB
- Put grain spawn bag + syringe + lighter in SAB
- Sterilize everything in SAB
- Heat syringe tip
- inoculate grain spawn
- Take grain out of SAB wait for it to fully colonize grain spawn
- 2-3 weeks later do I need to use the SAB again to transfer grain spawn to bulk substrate?  Or do I just do layer sub, layer grain, layer sub, layer grain etc in the open air?


Also, you mentioned doing PF-Tek jars.  The information I followed originally said to just grow straight off the cakes, but I believe you mentioned moving the cakes into a bulk substrate.  Is that inherently more sterile?

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
    #27789412 - 05/23/22 12:19 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

oof /: it happens. hopefully the next run goes better.

so you can’t really sterilize anything outside of an autoclave/pressure cooker, wiping it down with iso or bleach or whatever is more sanitization not really sterilization. semantic difference but it’s important just so you understand what’s happening. i don’t even wipe down my SAB every time anymore but for peace of mind wiping the inside with 70% iso is good. i will also wipe down plates/jar lids with 70% iso too but this might even be unnecessary. again, best for peace of mind & it doesn’t take too much extra effort. bags are pretty difficult to work with in the SAB & i’d recommend against it but im assuming you already have the bag so you can try it again. like i said earlier, syringe straight to bag is a recipe for disaster & every time i’ve seen it it ends up with bacterial or moldy spawn. i would be willing to bet quite a bit that’s why your first tub molded.

you can leave the lighter/torch outside your SAB. i & most people here heat their instruments outside the SAB, it’s unnecessary to have it inside & you don’t wanna risk alcohol fumes catching on fire in an enclosed space. i think i said this earlier in the thread too but spawning is inherently dirty & in the famous words of RR, you can scratch your asshole before spawning with no problems. once the grain is 100% colonized there is no more foothold for contamination to come & colonize any grain because the mycelium has locked it down, which is why you shouldn’t spawn before 100% colonization. fruiting is done in open air & there are millions of contaminate spores floating around at all times. if your spawn is clean there is no problem. you don’t need to layer it, you can just mix the coco coir & grains all together. i usually do a 1/2” top layer of pure coir over the top after & give it a solid misting. if you can’t do agar you really should do PF tek. much better success rates with spore syringes. i don’t see the point of fruiting them as cakes personally so i’d recommend just breaking them up as you would with any grain spawn & mixing them into a shoebox of coco coir


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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27790464 - 05/24/22 09:17 AM (2 years, 7 months ago)

I do already have another bag, and other syringes so I figure I might as well try at this point.  I'm going to make a SAB though.  I did notice you mentioned a casing layer, I didn't do that previously.  I did a layer of manure, layer of spawn, layer of manure etc but no coir casing on top.  Should I do a casing after I make my spawn lasagna?

Also, I don't mean this in an argumentative way, just trying to understand, why is PF-Tek less likely to become contaminated as compared to grain spawn bags with syringes?  From my limited knowledge it seems like the same risk because you are injecting into a port and contamination can enter in that process.

One final thing I thought of that I'm not sure if it matters.  On the grow that failed, I used about 10cc of liquid spores which I'm now coming to understand was, at the best, a waste of material, and at the worst, could have screwed the liquid balance.  Could using too many CC's from the spore syringe potentially have caused my issues?  For reference, I plan to use 4cc for a 3lb bag this time.

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Offlinehazyhorse
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti]
    #27791148 - 05/24/22 08:36 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

you don’t need to layer anything like that, just mix it all up. im assuming you’re using pre pasteurized manure but in the future just get coco coir. you don’t have to fuck around with pasteurization that way & coir works great. “casing” is typically used for a layer added after the sub has fully colonized, pseudo casing/top layer is when you just add an extra layer of coir misted solidly at spawn. i do it because my climate is dry & it helps encourage a better pin set.

contamination typically comes from within the syringe itself, doesn’t matter if you do everything “right” because you can’t really get 100% clean spores. for whatever reason PF tek just handles bacteria much better than grains do. cakes aren’t being smacked around like grain jars are & i think the way they are prepped helps bacteria from spreading around the grains & proliferating like they do with wet grains. i can’t tell you the exact reason why but what i can tell you is there’s definitely a reason why people here recommend PF for spore syringes & recommend against spores to grain. i’ve personally never seen a spore to grain bag that wasn’t bacterial & i’ve seen plenty of people end up with a tub of mold like your last attempt. PF empirically has an incredibly high success rate compared to shooting spores in a bag of grains, people aren’t just pulling it out of their ass.

what caused your issues was going spore to grain. more moisture content can fuck things up & there’s no reason to use 10ccs but people do liquid culture which is way more liquid & doesn’t contaminate like spore to grain


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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27792551 - 05/25/22 04:10 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

That's because lc is clean.

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Offlinelamorti
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: hazyhorse]
    #27793938 - 05/26/22 04:23 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hazyhorse said:
you don’t need to layer anything like that, just mix it all up. im assuming you’re using pre pasteurized manure but in the future just get coco coir. you don’t have to fuck around with pasteurization that way & coir works great. “casing” is typically used for a layer added after the sub has fully colonized, pseudo casing/top layer is when you just add an extra layer of coir misted solidly at spawn. i do it because my climate is dry & it helps encourage a better pin set.

contamination typically comes from within the syringe itself, doesn’t matter if you do everything “right” because you can’t really get 100% clean spores. for whatever reason PF tek just handles bacteria much better than grains do. cakes aren’t being smacked around like grain jars are & i think the way they are prepped helps bacteria from spreading around the grains & proliferating like they do with wet grains. i can’t tell you the exact reason why but what i can tell you is there’s definitely a reason why people here recommend PF for spore syringes & recommend against spores to grain. i’ve personally never seen a spore to grain bag that wasn’t bacterial & i’ve seen plenty of people end up with a tub of mold like your last attempt. PF empirically has an incredibly high success rate compared to shooting spores in a bag of grains, people aren’t just pulling it out of their ass.

what caused your issues was going spore to grain. more moisture content can fuck things up & there’s no reason to use 10ccs but people do liquid culture which is way more liquid & doesn’t contaminate like spore to grain





Thanks, I appreciate the information.  Just to be clear I wasn't saying that PF-Tek isn't better for syringes, I am just trying to better understand the differences, and I appreciate you explaining it.

So in the future I shouldn't use manure, and just go ahead and use coir instead?  Is the ratio the same as manure for coir?  Also, how do people use grain bags if not with syringes or do people just simply not use grain spawn bags?

I have been doing constant research to try to better understand this all and be more successful, and I came across the Uncle Ben Tek, are you familiar with it?  If so do you recommend it as a potential Tek to try.  Again I know PF-TEK would be your top recommendation but I failed miserably with a lot of jars and I'm hesitant to repeat that.  I was hoping to try some other Tek to see if I could learn more or maybe find a process that works better for me.

Lastly, the two PF-TEK cakes I have that haven't done anything for probably a month now (no mold no growth just simply nothing) would it be worth it to break them up into a coir shoebox?

Thanks again

Edited by lamorti (05/26/22 04:25 PM)

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InvisibleWyoMX
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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: lamorti] * 1
    #27794001 - 05/26/22 04:54 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

With coir you do use the same ratio like 1 part spawn to to 2 or 3 parts coir generally. Most people who use bags make them themselves and inoculate with agar or liquid culture infront of a flowhood, like hazy was saying going spores directly to grain is a huge gamble. And we all know about the uncle Ben's tek it is unfortunately a very very bad tek to follow. Seems easy enough but the bags contain a ton of moisture which leads to easier contams and you're still going spore to grain which is not reliable at all. Some people have had success but most people have alot of failure with it.

With those last 2 cakes if you really wanna try to break them up you can but I don't think it's worth it in my opinion. If you've been trying to fruit them for a month there gonna be alot weaker and susceptible to contams.

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Re: Question about mycelium growth in monotub [Re: WyoMX]
    #27794070 - 05/26/22 05:27 PM (2 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:

for sure! sorry, i realized the "people aren't just pulling it out of their ass" may have come off a bit aggressive, i didn't mean it that way at all. happy i could help explain a bit! (:

bags move too much air around & are really tall which makes them difficult in the SAB. i'm sure some people have done it with success, but basically everyone using an SAB just uses jars. grain spawn bags are easiest to work with in front of a flowhood using agar or LC.

i would highly discourage the uncle ben's tek as well, it's basically a worse spore to grain. haven't ever seen a UB bag that wasn't super bacterial. you can get mushrooms using the method, but it's not reliable at all & you'll end up losing much more than you win. plus it doesn't teach you anything about growing or what to look for or do for future grows. if you failed with PF tek there's probably a reason, & i'd say you're more likely to fail with uncle bens if you can't get PF tek down either. what did you do for PF the first time you did it?

if you really wanted success, i'd recommend just buying a pressure cooker & getting into agar & prepping your own grains. it becomes a lot easier to narrow down what you're doing wrong that way & if you're planning on consistently growing, a PC is an invaluable tool & agar will really help in getting consistently clean cultures & results. if you have the money & want to grow mushrooms more than like twice, the PC is excellent

are you saying those PF cakes haven't grown any mycelium & are still just uncolonized cakes in the jar? or were they colonized & birthed & now are not fruiting?


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you're not the first to set foot here, just another
===================================
i love glass petris & you can too!!
posts i constantly refer back to
new to mushroom cultivation?? read this!!
===================================

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